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What i don't understand about Garen/Juggernauts

I NEED HEALlNG··2 votes·431 views

They're supposed to be vulnerable to being kited and pealed, but i don't understand how Garen (maybe darius) fits into this case. It seems virtually impossible to "peel" when he tanks and dishes out so much damage the pealing teammate usually dies within seconds. With access to item 3044 procs, increased movement runes, tenacity, item 3800, a garen is not only able to reach his target, but deal stupid amounts of damage with his spin. Should my team only play characters with blinks?

Early game was his weakest of course that only lasted 5 minutes. Mid game he's diving without a fucking care in the world, tanking more than Mundo apparently. Late game he's approaching, tanking damage, and ignoring our peel because, if we don't have ranged peel, getting close to him is instant death. Being in his vicinity is instant death. What the fuck is going on here? Please someone explain. Don't give me the usual bullshit of "shut him down early/peel" That's complete garbage advice since there's a plethora of items that negate any tactic like that while he's able to one shot/kill effectively anyone who has to face him. I want an explanation as to why he's NOT broken when all that is taken into factor. Remember the new runes and stupid items when answering this please.

6 Comments

Critmaster Garen10 votes

so youre saying juggernauts should lose the fight even after theyve bypassed the enemy cc and are already in your face?

how exactly are they supposed to ever make themselves relevant?

your goal is to stop them from getting too close in the first place. if they managed to get a flank on you or otherwise got in your face, you already failed. at that point they should be bloody hard to peel, which still isnt impossible.

I NEED HEALlNG1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJV1sLJf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-18T12:03:39.075+0000)

so youre saying juggernauts should lose the fight even after theyve bypassed the enemy cc and are already in your face?

how exactly are they supposed to ever make themselves relevant?

your goal is to stop them from getting too close in the first place. if they managed to get a flank on you or otherwise got in your face, you already failed. at that point they should be bloody hard to peel, which still isnt impossible.

that isn't what i asked. answer the question or don't comment at all please.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

[{quoted}](name=I NEED HEALlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJV1sLJf,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-12-18T17:24:06.771+0000)

that isn't what i asked. answer the question or don't comment at all please.

its hard taking you serious, when you claim that he one shots and is tankier than mundo.

either hes really tanky lategame, or he goes full ad and bursts your ass down when he gets close. he cant do both. when hes running around with a regular bruiser build you should have plenty time to hit some sort of cc on him and walk away before he deals some serious damage. either before hes in melee range, or when hes close.

edit.: ok so it was jungle garen on a full ad/crit build.

you had 5 people who could stop him from getting close and enough damage to kill him. ugot can slow with his q, you can throw down a box, zoe can put him to sleep and practically 1 shot him, jhinn could have snared him with his w, rakan can q and ult.

he had no items to remove cc and not even goddamn mercs to deal with zoes drowsy. your team messed up big time.

I NEED HEALlNG1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJV1sLJf,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-18T17:28:13.809+0000)

its hard taking you serious, when you claim that he one shots and is tankier than mundo.

either hes really tanky lategame, or he goes full ad and bursts your ass down when he gets close. he cant do both. when hes running around with a regular bruiser build you should have plenty time to hit some sort of cc on him and walk away before he deals some serious damage. either before hes in melee range, or when hes close.

edit.: ok so it was jungle garen on a full ad/crit build.

you had 5 people who could stop him from getting close and enough damage to kill him. ugot can slow with his q, you can throw down a box, zoe can put him to sleep and practically 1 shot him, jhinn could have snared him with his w, rakan can q and ult.

he had no items to remove cc and not even goddamn mercs to deal with zoes drowsy. your team messed up big time.

the zoe and urgot wasn't the best at all. I treid my best to deal with him and had moderate success throughout, but absolutely no one could take him down withought him getting like 2 kills. He was too tanky. Early to mid he tanked more than the fucking mundo. I'm not talking about that specific game when i comment on his cc removing items and builds. I mean in gerneral. He gains such tenacity and movement speed plus damage, enough to kill easily and most likely survive the team dive if he doesn't kill. I don't get how we're supposed to watch out for the tank dealing shit tons of damage, and ALSO the adc/Carries of that game. The sense of that escapes me. Juggs are immobile, but why allow them so many advantages to escape their immobility status? His q is one thing, the build in slow is completely stupid in my opinion but i guess was needed. The runes have helped him out way too much i feel and as for such a tanky jugg, i think he needs to be dialed back, or at least the shit he has to negate cc.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=I NEED HEALlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJV1sLJf,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-18T22:18:51.008+0000)

the zoe and urgot wasn't the best at all.

and thats a problem with the champion how?

you could have easily kited him with zoe alone. all it takes is to hit her e to take him out of the fight.

and what does he really have to negate cc? the slow cleanse on the q. so you save your slows until after he hit the button. the tenacity on his w, which is ineffective against all the knockups in this game, and only works against 1 cc ability about every 15 seconds unless you blow all your cc at the same time on him.

he doesnt need to be dialed back. you just need to coordinate better and not let him flank your team.

the reason why he gets that extra tankyness is because its part of his power budget. hes not as much of an aoe threat as illaoi or darius. hes not as much of a split pusher as yorick, nasus or udyr. against non villains hes not even a strong duellist. he doesnt have in combat sustain either. this is a big one.

having a bigass defensive steroid and outplay tools for enemy cc is pretty much the only distinction towards other juggs. at least if you dont want to count olafs ult.

AmetDeCrypt2 votes

just play any caster support. he hates them and can't deal with anyone mildly competent using them because they can just keep permaslows on him.

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