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A suggestion from a Leona main

Mira Arya Enthe··3 votes·1,335 views

PLEASE READ THROUGH BEFORE GETTING "TRIGGERED" AND POSTING! This isn't about her being WEAK right now.

I found changes for Leona that I feel would keep her 100% viable and primary as a support(even though she is listed as Tank - Support like Naut, Alistar and Blitz who can all jungle/lane) But will give her not only solo power in other lanes, but make her less helpless when building off meta or is caught alone. All without making her more overpowered by making some compensating nerfs.

Sunlight: can now be procced by Leona's basic attacks(ONLY BASIC ATTACKS!). This change gives her some dueling power, but her potential burst will be nerfed on some other abilities to compensate. To help compensate Sunlight's damage is nerfed to 15-100 from 20-105.

Shield of Daybreak: Unchanged.

Eclipse: Damage reduced to 30/77.5/125/172.5/220 from 60/100/140/180/220 to reduce early burst to compensate being able to proc her own sunlight. Late game damage remains the same.

Zenith Blade: Cooldown is now 16/14/12/10/8 from 13/12/11/10/9 This change reduces her number of early game dives with her extremely easy engage tool, to compensate her bonuses elsewhere.

Solar Flare: Damage reduced to 100/150/200 from 100/175/250 Reducing her late game damage to compensate for her Eclipse remaining the same at rank 3. Meaning late game she has to get INTO a fight to do full AoE damage.

Enhanced Basic Attacks: 3/4/5 Unchanged Bonus Magic Damage: 20/30/40 (+ 15% AP) from 30/40/50 (+ 15% AP)

What do these changes do? These changes are subtle but effective. In supporting it nerfs her a tiny bit, as she is very strong and has a high win rate right now. As proccing her own sunlight is not as important early game in a duo lane where it would be procced by the ADC and ganking Jungler. Unless she procs her own sunlight when it would normally be wasted by another application, then it is a slight buff to her damage output and the only nerf is to her early game AoE and her early Zenith CD making her easy engage a bit more reserved. At the same time, Zenith is rewarded with a shorter CD late game, and Eclipse does the same damage late game, so she is straight up buffed late game due to being able to proc her own sunlight. EXCEPT that her ult, to compensate, does slightly less damage on lvls 2 and 3.

It makes Leona a beautiful warrior, she would have more combat power when alone, and being able to proc her own sunlight means even with early nerfs to her W damage and late nerfs to her R damage she still does slightly more dmg in extended fights. So not only will she become less helpless as a support when alone, but also could take up solo lanes such as top or maybe even jungle.

Why do I care? I love Leona, as a support. But recently with all the armor pen and burst and dps in the game, by mid-late game I can be 2500HP and die to a 350HP Ashe who just lifesteals and DPS me without me being able to respond due to ineffective damage output of my own. I don't want to beat carries straight up, that isn't my job. But if a low HP squishy comes after me, a big shield wielding, sword swinging warrior should not be helpless because her passive does absolutely nothing for herself.

If you like the general idea but find it too strong or too weak. Please upvote and leave a comment suggesting how you would go about the changes.

EDIT: After comments from Lord Desert, I have come to the conclusion that a possible 'fix' that doesn't change any numbers or gameplay is this.

If Leona reapplies Sunlight on the enemy 3 times without an ally proccing it, it goes into "Solar Meltdown". This causes it to reduce the enemy's Armor and Magic Resist. This makes Leona able to fight enemies alone without an ally, and solo lane. Without changing how she supports at all. It would still be ideal to have your ADC proc sunlight, but if you are alone and hit them with EWQ or REQ or whatever else to get three stacks. You still get a personal bonus that would make combat against them possible.

14 Comments

Lord Desert3 votes

To be honest, that would totaly screw her current design/"feeling". Shes a hard engager or stunbot peeler. Her main purpose is to cc the enemy so her teammates then can kill them and get some bonus dmg on top. If she would be able to trigger it herself then there would be no need for teammates. BUT i totaly agree that she wastes to many procs, mostly because if the teammates are bad, its tricky to relay on random guys to do your dmg, and/or cant follow up properly.

So how could we change it, without removing this feeling?

I would make her passiv stackable! But the dmg only goes up by 25%/50% per additional stack up to a** max of 3** stacks(so x1.5 or x2 passiv dmg at 3 stacks), and when 3 stacks are on en enemy, this enemy gets a debuff. So her possible passiv procs dont get wasted as much, thus making the dmg range smaller and easier to balance, AND make her not so relaint on good teammates or on good follow up.

Possible Debuffs

This debuff could ether be a "Reverse Janna passiv" aka. Allies who run towards an the enemy, who has this debuff, get + ~5-15% Ms. So following leona (after her ult e q Combo for example) is easier! range should be like Jannas passiv too, duration should be 2-3 sec.

Or something like "Sunlight Meltation" which reduces the Armor and Mr by ~10-15% or by a flat value. The duration should be atleast ~4-6 sec.

It would be better if the movement or the Ar/MR values would scale with level, but this is not a must. If the enemy gets 3 stacks again the duration of the debuff is refreshed or reapplied, this could be changed so that there may be a cd for a target but this could make the passiv overloaded and might bring visual issues.

Both debuffs fit her theme and should make it more appealing/ easier for her team to follow up. These changes dont increase her max. dmg at all, but they buff her dmg if her team is unable to proc her passiv properly.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AE9cBd1W,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-07-31T00:57:42.634+0000)

To be honest, that would totaly screw her current design/"feeling". Shes a hard engager or stunbot peeler. Her main purpose is to cc the enemy so her teammates then can kill them and get some bonus dmg on top. If she would be able to trigger it herself then there would be no need for teammates. BUT i totaly agree that she wastes to many procs, mostly because if the teammates are bad, its tricky to relay on random guys to do your dmg, and/or cant follow up properly.

So how could we cange it, without removing this feeling?

I would make her passiv stackable! But the dmg only goes up by 25%/50% per stack up to a** max of 3** stacks(so x1.5 or x2 passiv dmg at 3 stacks), and when 3 stacks are on en enemy, this enemy gets a debuff for 2-3 sec. So her possible passiv procs dont get wasted as much, thus making the dmg range smaller and easier to balance, AND make her not so relaint on good teammates or on good follow up.

Possible Debuffs

This debuff could ether be a "Reverse Janna passiv" aka. Allies who run towards an the enemy, who has this debuff, get + ~5-15% Ms. So following leona (after her ult e q Combo for example) is easier! range should be like Jannas passiv too.

Or something like "Sunlight Meltation" which reduces the Armor and Mr by ~10-15% or by a flat value. The duration should be atleast ~4-6 sec.

It would be better if the movement or the Ar/MR values would scale with level. If the enemy gets 3 stacks again the duration of the debuff is refreshed or reapplied, this could be changed so that there may be a cd for a target but this could make the passiv overloaded and might bring visual issues.

Both debuffs fit her theme and should make it more appealing/ easier for her team to follow up. These changes dont increase her max. dmg at all, but they buff her dmg if her team is unable to proc her passiv.

One of the main problems I have with Leona right now, who I love, is that her passive serves no purpose for herself. Which makes her different than the three other Tank/Supports in the game, Alistar, Blitz and Nautilus do not have any abilities that are utterly useless for themselves. It not only makes her absolutely stuck being nothing but a support, but even as a support she has a problem of being unable to use her own ability. Even Braum can stack his own stun up. The only other support I can think of who has such an ability is Soraka's heal, it is useless for herself. That isn't, in my opinion, fun or healthy gameplay.

I think the main issue with Leona is her inability to proc sunlight. She still would need team mates. She dives in 5 enemies and marks them all she isn't going to run to each one and auto them(I specifically said it only procs for HER on HER basic attacks, and not her abilities. It would still proc normally for allies) But when alone she would actually have a passive like all the other champions(except Soraka). I am not looking for a straight up buff to her, she is already strong. I am looking to make it so she has a passive for herself and can do more than just play support. Like Nautilus, Blitz and Alistar for example.

And honestly, it wouldn't change her current feeling at all. Her primary role would be exactly the same. She would still play exactly the same.

Lord Desert3 votes

But her passiv dmg relaing on the team is her uniqueness. If she would be able to proc it herself she just has more dmg(that she can apply), this would remove the NEED for teammates interactions, and THIS is the feeling im talking about :P. But think of it that way: If My leona is top and we pick the "Reverse Janna passiv", she engages on the enemy and her jungle can easly follow/gank and do 2x dmg passiv too(not only 1x passiv). Or if we pick the "Sunlight Meltation" she able to do more dmg by herself (technicly we could make the "Sunlight Meltation" only activ if the 3 stacks get proced by an ally, to not overbuff her dmg). In both cases we do better in a solo Lane than the old Leona, but still do the same dmg.

I know you said "only proced by her AAs" but it would be a) a little wierd with q and her ult AAs, procing the dmg and reapling it at the same time, and b) would only DECREASCE her dmg right now. Because, as a tradeoff, you wanted to lower her overall dmg a little(mostly in the early/mid) and she already got a decrease at early/late dmg, exept the "ideal" scenario is happening, where her allies proc her passiv everytime its aplied. You changes make the ideal scenario come true in ~90%. So her dmg would be futher reduced too. And so making it harder for sup Leona to be still viable.

If we would do my changes she is MORE viable in solo lanes as of now AND still keeping the theme of her beeing somewhat reliaing on her team. Im looking forward to play her on solo Lanes too :D. (I tried Braum solo too) Her main Focus is as a Sup and a sup is 99% with someone at the lane, so her beeing reliant on the teammate is ok in my eyes.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AE9cBd1W,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-31T01:34:24.188+0000)

But her passiv dmg relaing on the team is her uniqueness. If she would be able to proc it herself she just has more dmg(that she can apply), this would remove the NEED for teammates interactions, and THIS is the feeling im talking about :P. But think of it that way: If My leona is top and we pick the "Reverse Janna passiv", she engages on the enemy and her jungle can easly follow/gank and do 2x dmg passiv too(not only 1x passiv). Or if we pick the "Sunlight Meltation" she able to do more dmg by herself (technicly we could make the "Sunlight Meltation" only activ if the 3 stacks get proced by an ally, to not overbuff her dmg). In both cases we do better in a solo Lane than the old Leona, but still do the same dmg.

I know you said "only proced by her AAs" but it would be a) a little wierd with q and her ult AAs, procing the dmg and reapling it at the same time, and b) would only DECREASCE her dmg right now. Because, as a tradeoff, you wanted to lower her overall dmg a little(mostly in the early/mid) and she already got a decrease at early/late dmg, exept the "ideal" scenario is happening, where her allies proc her passiv everytime its aplied. You changes make the ideal scenario come true in ~90%. So her dmg would be futher reduced too. And so making it harder for sup Leona to be still viable.

If we would do my changes she is MORE viable in solo lanes as of now AND still keeping the theme of her beeing somewhat reliaing on her team. Im looking forward to play her on solo Lanes too :D. (I tried Braum solo too) Her main Focus is as a Sup and a sup is 99% with someone at the lane, so her beeing reliant on the teammate is ok in my eyes.

My apologies, I misunderstood what you wrote as your idea. I actually DO like your idea, of her getting a bonus if her stacks get too high(wasted) as it does give her a solo lane tool if her passive is not able to be procced by others. Without buffing her solo lane. I think you actually found the kind of solution I was looking for. And it is a lot simpler.

Lord Desert1 votes

No need for apologies :D We all fight for the same goal :D I had considered making her able to proc her passiv alone(with the stackable passiv too) but they all resulted in mostlikey dmg nerfs and thus hurting sup leona alot :/ I think of it as TF sup: his passiv gets wasted, but you can get atleast something if you buy a relic. TF (specialy his passiv) is not designed as a sup, but with sometradeoffs its still possible. My changes only help Leona a small bit in her offrole, but it may be enough to make her viable there! Without damaging her "main" role :D

Luxychan2 votes

With how the ADC champions are working currently, her W needs a major tweek. Gaining bonus armor means nothing due to the Armor pen in the game's Runes, Masteries and Items. A flat Damage reduction would work better, but that would feel like a huge cop-out in my opinion. They just did this whole mount targon thing, why not update Leona a bit to fit the current game instead of letting her sit in an odd state.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

With how the ADC champions are working currently, her W needs a major tweek. Gaining bonus armor means nothing due to the Armor pen in the game's Runes, Masteries and Items. A flat Damage reduction would work better, but that would feel like a huge cop-out in my opinion. They just did this whole mount targon thing, why not update Leona a bit to fit the current game instead of letting her sit in an odd state.

I agree she could use a rework beyond just giving her autos more value after her ult. Something to add some 'Flare' to her kit.

Luxychan2 votes

W Eclipse ACTIVE: Leona charges her shield with sunlight, reducing basic attack damage for 3 seconds. She then erupts at the end of the duration, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies and keeping Eclipse's bonuses for an additional 3 seconds if she damages at least one target.

Damage reduction: 20/25/30/35/40% (+20% bonus armor)(+20% bonus magic resist)

Magic Damage: 40/80/120/160/200 (+20% AP)

This way, the ability still feels familiar, but is drastically different in terms of survival in bot lane.

EDIT: You can change basic attack damage to Physical damage for a similar effect, but a broader range of defense. The idea is Leona uses this huge shield.. let her actually USE the shield to survive.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

W Eclipse ACTIVE: Leona charges her shield with sunlight, reducing basic attack damage for 3 seconds. She then erupts at the end of the duration, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies and keeping Eclipse's bonuses for an additional 3 seconds if she damages at least one target.

Damage reduction: 20/25/30/35/40% (+20% bonus armor)(+20% bonus magic resist)

Magic Damage: 40/80/120/160/200 (+20% AP)

This way, the ability still feels familiar, but is drastically different in terms of survival in bot lane.

EDIT: You can change basic attack damage to Physical damage for a similar effect, but a broader range of defense. The idea is Leona uses this huge shield.. let her actually USE the shield to survive.

I like your idea after reading it. But here is what I would do with your idea.

W Eclipse ACTIVE: Leona charges her shield with sunlight, reducing incoming damage from all sources by 25% for 3 seconds. At the end of the duration there is an explosion around Leona dealing 20/60/100/140/180 (+20% AP) in magic damage. The damage is increased by 2/4/6/8/10 for every 100 damage absorbed over it's duration.

The damage reduction is then extended by 1(+1 second for each enemy champion hit) if it strikes any enemy unit, capping at 6 seconds.

This gives her potentially 9 seconds of damage reduction. And if she builds enough HP and takes a lot of damage in the first 3 seconds. She could get as much as 100-250 bonus damage on her W late game.

But if not attacked or if not hitting lots of enemies, it can actually serve as a slight nerf to the dmg and duration.

Calabok1 votes

no she does not need buffs.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

no she does not need buffs.

"PLEASE READ THROUGH BEFORE GETTING "TRIGGERED" AND POSTING! This isn't about her being WEAK right now."

Madra1 votes

I have a different idea that works along the same lines. Whenever an ally isn't within 1500 units of Leona, Solaire of Astora is summoned. Solaire targets enemies afflicted with Sunlight, procing it with his auto attacks. Solaire, otherwise, does an almost imperceptible amount of damage.

On a serious note, I like both of the suggestions.

SouL1ess1 votes

Or you could have made it so that Leona can proc her own passive with her own autoattacks, but she can only proc Sunlight herself once every 10/8/6/4 seconds, scaling down with 1/6/11/16 levels. Her allies can still proc Sunlight if Leona's Sunlight activation is on CD.

And then you don't need to change anything else on her kit. It's a weak buff but it helps her solo laning.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

A lot of wonderful suggestions have been made. That are all far better, in my opinion, than Riot's lack of a solution for people who don't want a passive 100% worthless without somebody there to proc it. Thank you all for your input!

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