The point of the active is to make you much tankier but with less damage dealt to compensate. When this doesn't apply to true damage, it kind of fails in this trade-off. Moreover, Cho ult scales with max health and actually gets BUFFED by the active that's supposed to nerf damage.
People are complaining about cho R right now, but it's really the fact that true damage isn't reduced that causes all of this bullshit.
Killer300018920 votesBecause it's true damage.....
Dr Poro1 votesOkay, that's a good reason to allow gameplay flaws.
True damage can't be mitigated by the receiving end, that's fair. It's a matter of what counters what. But this is the first instant of damage reduction of their own damage. This allows you to manipulate the outcome to your favour, making the item much stronger on some champions than on others. The item's active is supposed to have a trade-off. If your champion deals mainly true damage, there is no trade-off, ruining the balance of the item.
The Yetii Rider4 votesThe point of true damage is that what is written on the ability is what you get. It is usually less damage than physical or magic abilities, but it is very predictable. It is not amplified by % increases either, such as by Vladimir's Hemorrhage. Would you like that to be implemented again? Do you want true damage to be affected by % increase damage? Because that's what you're inviting.
Partholonian1 votesNo champion should deal MAINLY true damage. Even Vayne does more physical than true.
If Cho's ult is just too much burst period, then nerf it. Don't screw with true damage as a concept.
ModKnightsKemplar4 votesI see what you're getting at. Actually, when I first read your suggestion, I thought it sounded like a great idea.
The problem is that true damage is balanced around NOT being able to be reduced by anything. If they change that, it's a nerf to true damage, and they'll have to increase the amount of true damage that champs do to compensate for the nerf. That's not something that would be healthy for the game, so it's better to leave it as is.
Dr Poro1 votesBut it's limiting design really. I think reducing your own damage dealt is a great way to balance items and runes. But when certain tanks deal mainly true damage, this trade-off will not affect them making the item/rune overpowered on them meaning that the item/rune needs to be nerfed which makes it useless on all other champions. On the other hand, we can't have more true-damage heavy champions because of Stoneplate. It's OP on Cho, I'm pretty sure it's also OP on Darius if people use it right.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesI don't think it's as bad as you say. It's probably possible to balance the game without it, but I definitely think it's possible to balance the game with it, too.
Stoneplate is very interactive, and it definitely changes the way you approach fighting on either side of the item (having it and playing against it). I think there's good reason to find ways to keep it, so I'd rather keep it if they can figure that out. I don't think the true damage argument is a great reason to get rid of it, frankly.
But you're making your case well, at least. I think this is a good thread, for the record. Would love to see Red input on the topic.
Dr Poro1 votesI absolutely don't want to get rid of Stoneplate. I love the trade-off you have to make. It's just that when true-damage champs get an edge because they can activate the item without losing too much damage, it loses the uniqueness of the active and would require nerfs. OR the true damage tanks get nerfed and this item becomes a staple on them, limiting build diversity.
And A Real Hiero1 votesSo you're saying that if stoneplate active affecting true damage would be a nerf to true damage and would require buffs to true damage across the board, lol.
As an avid bamboozle player I don't mind that.
JackMcSnipeyz3 votesbecause that's the entire point of true damage - it's true damage. if you start tweaking that, why not tweak it so damage reduction abilities like WW e reduce it aswell?
In my opinion, the cho stoneplate + ult interaction should be fixed specificly as this is an obvious problem.
Dr Poro1 votesBut all other forms of damage reduction are on the receiving end. This is the only thing that reduces your own damage dealt. There's a HUGE difference between the two.
JackMcSnipeyz2 votesNo there isnt, true damage is one of the only consistant things in the game, thats why it called true damage. Obviously the only one abusing it is cho'gath so why not tweak him instead of a mechanic that was like this since the dawn of time?
Jorencice1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ABmuKWwP,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-07-28T12:00:44.761+0000)
But all other forms of damage reduction are on the receiving end. This is the only thing that reduces your own damage dealt. There's a HUGE difference between the two.
Exhaust reduces your own damage and it's used in every game.
Salron2 votesTrue damage has always been unaffected by any and all damage modifiers in the game, that's how true damage is coded
Dr Poro2 votesNo it doesn't. Riot changed that quite a while ago. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/True_damage
Salron2 votes? http://puu.sh/wVijC/82f549c36c.png All I see are things that support my argument
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesthe issue isnt the item its the scaling of cho ult . it gets +10% bonus hp as true damage
the issue is him getting FREE TRUE DAMAGE for having 10k hp so he gets to one shot anything that comes near him
let say he has 10k hp and he is max rank on feast so lvl 16 he would have a base hp of 1854 so he would have effective 8146 bonus hp
his ult at max rank is 650 true damage + 50% ap +10% bonus hp so he has no AP 650+8146x10% (814.6) so 650+815=1465 true damage to a target
let take the base hp of lucian at lvl 16 (1712hp)
so if cho was to ult him from full hp lucian would have 247 hp left just for cho walking up and hitting R
so if we take the 10% bonus hp scaling off of his R and just increase the base damage even to 1000 true damage at max rank
1712hp-1000true damage = 712 hp lucian lives
Dr Poro2 votesAnd then reduce the true damage by 60% and the whole thing becomes a non-issue.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesno... just reduce the %hp bonus scale on his ULT
you are blaming and item for a fault with the champ
Dr Poro2 votesQuite the opposite. He's fine if it weren't for this item.
You're assuming that he has 10k health, but that never happens at level 16. I can assume veigar has 10k AP and say his Q is OP. Doesn't make sense either.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesok with the item and infinite stacks if he is near 3 enemies he presses the active gets +100% bonus hp
i played cho and had easily 9k hp doing this
make it 9000 instead of 10 or whatever u want the stacks never end its infinite scaling
its the bonus hp % ratio on his ult
he is the only one that interacts with the item this way... where it grants him more damage
so the issue is once again the champ not the item
Jorencice1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ABmuKWwP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-28T10:52:03.682+0000)
the issue isnt the item its the scaling of cho ult . it gets +10% bonus hp as true damage
the issue is him getting FREE TRUE DAMAGE for having 10k hp so he gets to one shot anything that comes near him
let say he has 10k hp and he is max rank on feast so lvl 16 he would have a base hp of 1854 so he would have effective 8146 bonus hp
his ult at max rank is 650 true damage + 50% ap +10% bonus hp so he has no AP 650+8146x10% (814.6) so 650+815=1465 true damage to a target
let take the base hp of lucian at lvl 16 (1712hp)
so if cho was to ult him from full hp lucian would have 247 hp left just for cho walking up and hitting R
so if we take the 10% bonus hp scaling off of his R and just increase the base damage even to 1000 true damage at max rank
1712hp-1000true damage = 712 hp lucian lives
Mmm yess. Then my SO cho could hit 2k true damage ult.
I agree with this change.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteshe woudlnt hit 2000k true damage if you take away the bonus hp ratio on his R
you miss read
so if we take the 10% bonus hp scaling off of his R and just increase the base damage even to 1000 true damage at max rank
Jorencice1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ABmuKWwP,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2017-07-28T12:56:12.590+0000)
he woudlnt hit 2000k true damage if you take away the bonus hp ratio on his R
you miss read
so if we take the 10% bonus hp scaling off of his R and just increase the base damage even to 1000 true damage at max rank
You would also have to remove his AP ratios if you did that.
A full AP build could easily reach 2k damage with a base of 1000.
I enjoy his AP build.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesyea but a .4 ap ratio he would need alot of AP for it basically if it did a base 1000 true damage and you had 1000 ap ( somehow) 1000x.4(or 40%) 400=1400 true damage
z63XnLCMwX2 votesCho is ridiculously easy to kite. Unless you're playing kog maw, cho should never in your melee range as an adc.
Dr Poro1 votesRupture, 
, 
, Other enemies with CC. I'm not complaining about this because I'm an ADC tht keeps dying. I've played more Cho than any other champion last patch, I love abusing the combo but it's getting a bit boring now and I really expected them to have fixed it by 7.15.
z63XnLCMwX2 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ABmuKWwP,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-07-28T11:06:57.978+0000)
Rupture,
Cho Q is telegraph and easy to dodge. Have your team peel, stay out of his flash range. Cho isn't OP, a lot of champion can counter him, the only way he's a threat is if your team comp is terrible. 
is always a good choice against him. So is 
Dr Poro1 votesI love it when a vayne thinks she can AA me while my flash is active. I just go in 
+ R and she's dead. Then the obligated "/all outplayed" taunt.
z63XnLCMwX1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ABmuKWwP,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-28T11:24:57.681+0000)
I love it when a vayne thinks she can AA me while my flash is active. I just go in
Then vayne is doing something wrong. If I play vayne and knows that Cho is the biggest threat I'd build to counter him and let my team deal with the adc. Cho can try flash + ult against a vayne with 
. Even if he does manage to kill her, all he has going for him is his ult, she'll pop back from GA and proceed to melt him.
One Ashe On2 votes
can use stone plate and apply his full passive then ult target. But 
is oppressive because of the health scaling. Nerf cho hp scaling or simply remove it and buff his AP ratio and trust me you won't see stoneplate on cho gath any longer. Stoneplate is fine imo and true damage interaction can stay. Cho need tuning.
Infernape2 votesBecause true damage cannot be reduced or mitigated by any means. When something hits for X true damage, it hits for that amount no matter what.
Kloqdq2 votesOr you know...
We remove the item and just make other tank items good again?
The Yetii Rider1 votesThe entire point of Stoneplate is to prevent divers, marksmen and assassins from poaching tank items and abusing them because they're too efficient as single item pick ups.
Kloqdq2 votesThen why don't we just have scaling stats for defense and mr....
Oh wait we do!
Stoneplate is still being used by divers because again, it's the best item in the whole tank line-up. It has the most power and it shouldn't exist. Having a whole class gated by a single item isn't healthy design frankly.
The Yetii Rider1 votesEvery champion in the game except Cassieopeia is gated by a single item. 
So that argument is moot.
If divers use Stoneplate they are sacrificing damage. That is an actual cost of the item's durability, unlike Sunfire giving 500 health and 50 armor.
Kloqdq1 votesThe item isn't very gold efficient when you consider other items of similar quality. I've already talked about it in the past but Stoneplate basically has this great known value of 40 Armor+MR (80 most of the time in teamfights) at a cheap price. The potential value of just boosting health is meant to survive burst. Most divers will buy it for the raw stats which are fantastic for them (They are already grabbing a lot of hp from items so they just need the stats) and they will burst then just use it to survive.
Stoneplate is too good. It makes tanks almost NEED the item so they can actually be tanky because their own items are so much weaker in value. You are paying far more for items that are only mildly decent.
Samura Yukisuna1 votesBut it does. It increases your health, which effectively reduces true damage taken once the health increase is removed.
Dr Poro1 votesI'm tlaking about the 60% damage reduction of the caster's damage. It's not reduced unlike physical and magic damage. Hence the whole Cho problem.
The Yetii Rider1 votesCho isn't a problem though. Just because he can kill one person while he's tanking at late game, that doesn't make him unbalanced or dangerous.
car41 votesYeah, stop nerfing Cho Gath because of an item. This is 
with 
all over again.
TEA Nietzsche 1 votesYeah, let's just change the fundamental way damage types function and boom the problem that occurs with 1 single champion in the game is fixed.
Wait. This doesn't make any sense.
Elemental Lux1 votesThe same reason you can't exhaust Darius's ultimate noob.
HalcyonDweller1 votesIt comes down to the coding. True damage can't be reduced. I'm unsure why Riot would develop an item like Stoneplate without coming up for a fix for that first though.
agbudar1 votesthe funny thing is that if Cho gets the full 100% increase even if true damage would be reduced by the active he can still get a net gain in damage depending how much health he has.
