The Warwick Rework - Expectations

The Yetii Rider··1 votes·1,386 views

The lore for the Warwick update looks good and I'm definitely happy about that. But let's talk about the gameplay and what it should be. Okay, so I will define a few key things that I think make Warwick Warwick (and no, I'm not a serious Warwick player or anything, but I love the character and I've wanted him to be good for so long. No one else is talking about this so it might as well be me).

Key Point 1: Warwick is a Diver.

So the basics should be obvious. The subclass Warwick belongs to is Diver. He gets to the backline, he finds Soraka and he eats her heart. This is really the core gameplay fantasy that Warwick players want. The current Warwick plays more like a juggernaut that has one gap closer (like Shyvana) so hopefully the new kit delivers more on a cohesive, refined kit that really gives Warwick a spot on a team.

Key Point 2: Warwick is a Hunter.

When you play Warwick, the lead up to a gank should feel good and thematic. You should feel like you're stalking your prey and the kill you get is a reward for doing that stalking. The problem here is that Rengar already has this thematic as well (seriously, Riot releasing Rengar before they fixed Warwick fucked everything up. Now they have to differentiate between the two both in thematics and in gameplay).

Currently, Warwick's Blood Scent delivers on this pretty well, particularly in his Hyena skin where he leaps forward on all fours as he runs. I think this is definitely worth expanding. Every Warwick skin should have an all fours run animation, and that animation should be triggered during Blood Scent (which will hopefully be his new passive instead of a toggled ability. Yes, it's useful to turn Blood Scent off for surprise factors but hopefully the reworked Blood Scent will just be good to have on at all times).

Key Point 3: Warwick is Feral.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9e9wwANE-violence-is-a-key-aspect-to-warwicks-theme-and-we-want-to-see-how-far-we-can-push-that

I did a thread on this already a while back, but it's important to restate here. This is how you really differentiate Warwick from Rengar. Rengar's attacks already feel a bit animalistic, but they are precise. His new skill shot is a lunge that is aimed in a direction, and his use of equipment with his Bola and his Camouflage portray a calculated, sadistic hunter.

Warwick shouldn't feel like that at all. When you play Warwick his attacks should be all over the place. The lunge on his ultimate should be wild and indirect, maybe having Warwick leap halfway toward the target diagonally forward to the right, and then complete the gap closer by leaping diagonally forward to the left (so you move in a straight line by zig zagging).

His auto attacks should be very visible, especially if he's still going to be an on-hit Bloodrazor user (probably not, but if that's the case I expect extra effort put into his auto attack animation). Lots of claws and maybe even some teeth. You could really make Warwick seem much more ferocious than Rengar if he has a bite attack as well as his claws, maybe as a crit?

The Good Stuff - What Should be Kept

Blood Scent is definitely a keeper. Probably not as a full ability. Either the passive of his new E, or his kit's new passive as a whole.

Infinite Duress is what Warwick is best known for, and suppression is really the only CC that makes sense with it. Because it's a channeled effect (Warwick is holding the target in place as he rips them to shreds) it can't just be a normal stun. Then if Warwick gets displaced or CC'd the target would continue to be stunned even though Warwick has seemingly stopped attacking him. Similar to Skarner's Impale, when the animation of the CC is tied to the concentration and movement of the attacker, suppression is the only CC that really works. I don't think all of it should be kept (the on-hit part can probably go, then Challenging Smite can be decent again) but as far as the idea of Warwick just leaping onto his target and rending them asunder, I'm all in.

The Bad Stuff - Toss it in the Trash

Hunter's Call - This buff is just too damn strong. It's ridiculous. If this ability were on an actual support that support would be pick/ban in the LCS, as many pros have admitted Hunter's Call is probably the highest amount of gold any one ability in the game grants. Give Warwick more diver stuff and good riddance.

Hungering Strike/Eternal Thirst - This is the main problem Warwick has with being good: When he's good, he's unkillable. Too much built in sustain in his kit, and it really doesn't need to be there. Riot stated in their latest discussion on Warwick that they like him being the champion that teaches new players how to jungle, and that's fine (Ahem. Nunu is good for that too, but whatever). If sustain in the jungle is fundamentally necessary, good on you. Keep Eternal Thirst's effect for monsters only (shouldn't be too much of a power budget there) and scrap the rest. We already have an unkillable Zaun monstrosity, Warwick should differentiate from Mundo and Singed by being more aggressive and less hardy.

The New Stuff - What to Replace Bad With?

Warwick's identity as a drain tank is a problem, so instead he should be...basically a less bursty, but sturdier Rengar. Like if Rengar was a diver. Obviously when you pick Warwick over Rengar, you do it for the CC (and when you pick Rengar over Warwick, you do it for the Stealth). So there's no problem there. That said, he does need a new passive, Q, W and E. So here's my suggestions:

Passive - Blood Scent

Enemy champions and large monsters within range of Warwick who are below a certain health threshold are revealed, and Warwick gains movement speed when moving towards those enemies. This allows Warwick (and only Warwick) to see Invisible and Camouflaged champions who are below the health threshold.

Warwick deals a small amount of bonus magic damage on hit to monsters, and receives a small amount of health. This stacks up to three times.

Q - Fang Over Fang

Warwick leaps forward aggressively in a line (can go over walls) and bites into the first target that he reaches, dealing physical damage and slowing the first enemy hit.

W - Hunter's Resolve Passive - While moving towards a target marked by Blood Scent, Warwick gains resistance to crowd control and slows based on rank.

Active - Warwick throws a target in melee range to the ground, dealing physical damage and stunning the target for 0.5 seconds. This duration changes to 1-2 seconds based on rank if the target is marked by Blood Scent.

E - Lycan's Rage Warwick becomes empowered, marking all enemy champions within range as targets for Blood Scent. Against any actual targets below the health threshold, the bonus movement speed he gets is increased by half. The next auto attack Warwick makes within a short duration deals % health physical damage to the enemy.

Let me know what you guys think and what your hopes are for the Warwick rework. Happy hunting, summoners.

11 Comments

Brutalitops011 votes

Riot has said a couple of things that will conflict with your ideas.

First off, they want Warwick to not only be able to gank early - but want to gank early. In your version if it, he can gank early, but he doesn't really have incentive to. I would image some kind of hunt system similar to Rengar or Kindred's passives.

Second, they want Warwick to stay easy to play, but have some outplay potential. He should be the kind of champion that new players turn to when looking to learn to jungle, while still having a high enough skill ceiling to make people want to keep playing him after they've learned the role. Not entirely an easy to play, hard to master type thing, just easy to play, yet hard enough to master that people keep playing him. Your kit looks simple enough, but lacks the high skill ceiling that Riot wants him to have in order to keep people coming back and discovering new tricks to do with him even years after this rework goes live.

Third, they have said that they will be giving him a completely new ultimate if they don't make his current one a skillshot. It's just broken to have a point and click blink that also suppresses and deals that kind of damage, to the point where the rest of his kit has to suffer for it. It will at the very least become a telegraphed skillshot, I would image something in the vein of Zac's Elastic Slingshot, but maybe without the charging range and just a delay before jumping/hitting, and that's if it doesn't get completely changed.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Having Warwick want to gank early? That seems to conflict with their current choice of "weaken the early game gankers", but alright.

Brutalitops011 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAb8Lbws,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-07T08:10:26.168+0000)

Having Warwick want to gank early? That seems to conflict with their current choice of "weaken the early game gankers", but alright.

Why they want Warwick to get rewarded for ganking early is to teach new junglers that they should gank and how to gank. As an example, jungle may be my secondary role and something that I even mained for a while, but I will still sit in my jungle and AFK farm until lane phase ends if I'm playing a jungler that I'm not comfortable with/don't know the limits of just because I'm not confident enough that I can succeed in those ganks. Playing as someone that has incentive beyond just the gold lead, on the other hand, I'm all over the map, influencing everyone, even when I'm not comfortable on them yet.

50000000000000001 votes

He should definitely get a gapcloser on his basic ability, and probably some light CC. Maybe it's a slow, maybe it's a short duration hard CC. Or both. Those two are surely gonna be included.

Big Lincoln1 votes

Warwick should be a juggernaut, 2 divers back to back is lame. hope he's like bloodseeker and can chase for days

No shitty gimmicks, just a solid, good kit. Asking for too much from CerT though

The Yetii Rider1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAb8Lbws,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-07T08:33:09.496+0000)

Warwick should be a juggernaut, 2 divers back to back is lame. hope he's like bloodseeker and can chase for days

No shitty gimmicks, just a solid, good kit. Asking for too much from CerT though

Why would a sleek, monstrous werewolf be slow and lumbering?

Juggernauts are slow and tank for days. We don't need Warwick to be another Dr. Mundo. We already have one of those from Zaun. Warwick should be lightning fast and super powerful. Camille's release shouldn't have any impact on Warwick's rework.

Big Lincoln1 votes

Udyr and Garen are not slow

We don't need another champion with one ability guaranteed to be a dash. Puts me to sleep every time I see it

The Yetii Rider1 votes

He's a werewolf. Every depiction of werewolves ever has shown them leaping onto someone to bite them or kill them. Chasing and running is not leaping. It's not feral or animalistic. It's not how a beast hunts.

Altonius Amakiir1 votes

Agree with almost everything you've said(even the nunu part). The only things I disagree with is that 1)healing should just be on jungle monsters, 2)removal of on hit on ult(this and his passive is what makes on hit Warwick work, and is what I play), 3)that his identity as a drain tank is a problem(disagree with that entire paragraph save the last sentence). I do want to say however, I strongly agree with you on the differentiation from rengar, my biggest fear is he will feel too much like rengar, thats not what I want, and not why I play him.

I also really hope that his blood scent shows at least camoflagued people(seeing invisible seems a bit op). From what I have gathered about the rework, keeping bloodscent is almost guarenteed in one form or another. Also in case you didnt know, they have been in testing phase for a while, they asked a while back about player opions here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/qoV7EO9N-after-so-many-hints-warwick-rework-finally-confirmed-by-feralpony and that seems to have been just about the only chance to have made a post like this that riot would have taken into account. They have said they will at least be partially working off the iced rework, so I expect they took idea from there to start then were like: "but with our better programming skills now, can we do something different that gets at the same point?" or "can we advance this idea in a certain direction that would be better that we couldn't have done then, that we can now?" and certainly "Can we actually make this fit thematically/lore wise?". Another very likely thing they will do is keep the on hit passive and ult, seeing as in the iced kit they said they definitely wanted to keep on hit warwick viable and that in that post there were some people that mentioned that. Other things that are high probability is his passive on hits being %health, a dash ability that isnt his ult, a Q that heals(with a reasonable mana cost), and a fear. Some other things that have a somewhat good chance of being in his kit is blood scent only giving movement speed toward enemies, harder healing off minions, AS in other parts of kit(either as another passive on an ability or base AS). Also they have revealed that they are keeping the hunter, diver, and viscous thematics, and I believe I read the same for drain tank(although I cant remember if I had a secondary source for that besides the iced rework to make it credible).

Altonius Amakiir1 votes

Also wanted to point out one of the smaller things that I really want changed. I want the "cast time" on his Q removed. Currently there is about a .2s cast time on his Q due to damage being applied after the animation(or at least part way through). Now it may seem small, but I have lost more trades than I can count because of this. For instance, the last game I played I was up against two opponents with a sliver of health, so I Q the first in an attempt to kill and to get sustain to kill the next. Animation goes off, get autoed before damage is dealt. Nothing feels worse playing Warwick and having that happen in my experience(except when laners wont help as you're being invaded at red).

The Yetii Rider2 votes

Thanks for all your contribution.

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