Calling it now: Dark Harvest is going to make A LOT of people mad. VERY mad.

chipndip1··115 votes·15,322 views

We got a lot of "Dark Harvest One Shot montage" videos floating around on YT already. Nasus, Ezreal, Ekko...you guys would do good to shave off that type of insta-burst power from the keystone before it becomes another Thunderlord's case...but with way more one-shots.

Riot, this preseason has BIG stakes. Don't let something as silly as Dark Harvest stacking rub people the wrong way when we have THIS much time beforehand to address it beforehand. I don't think people are gonna appreciate this keystone.

Edit: So apparently I'm getting some flack in the replies. This is sort of me watching out for you guys, given what we LITERALLY JUST WENT THROUGH WITH GALIO. It's not about how super op it is (it could actually be, though...no idea) more than it's how people won't appreciate having massive chunks of HP flaked off their bar out of nowhere, with no way to counter-play it after 100 stacks since it lasts so long after that point. If you guys don't think it's an issue worth delving into, then I'm sorry for bringing it up.

Edit 2:

{quoted}

Preseason has always built on previous seasons. This is the first highly destructive preseason the game's had (at least as far as I know). If the new runes come out and people start thinking the old runes were better, that's gonna be a major concern since there's no feasible way to return to the old runes after that point. This project is probably one of Riot's riskiest ones since they're shaking up one of the foundations of the game so hard.

This is what I mean by "big stakes", so stop asking.

146 Comments

Gelmous44 votes

Nasus already one shot's people

Blåbæret8 votes

In bronze, ye.

Gelmous101 votes

once you leave bronze you'll notice he can do that in other elos too

kalima99424 votes

the burns

Blåbæret3 votes

Whatever you tell yourself, buddy.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

iamthegoatofwar6 votes

even in gold you can not escape full leathality nasus

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

??? usual nasus already oneshott at somepoint (more or less)...

Faceroll Tactics11 votes

Games end in 25 minutes anyway

I can one shot people with veigar from range and have a no no box to escape. Nash's has to crawl over to his enemy and in any situation other than a 1v1, he can't stick.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

yeah but... thats we ask to a top laner... Nasus don't need to wait for 25 min to be a splitt push machine like his old self (sadly).

Both should be adressed i think (Nasus whole kit and design, and veigar ult).

General Esdeath 6 votes

Silver 2 thinks he's in high elo or something

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png

boy we're all low until plat/diamond.

Blåbæret5 votes

{quoted}

Silver 2 thinks he's in high elo or something

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png

boy we're all low until plat/diamond.

Tell that to the all too often plat player feeding in my silver games.

EDIT: Managed to farm enough salty downvotes to buy myself a snack.

PROJECT Katarìna4 votes

Not everyone does good all the time and if there is plats on your team they are etheir on a good winstreak that they had to be paired up with you and the enemy team might just be good and dont play ranked a lot.

DeathBurst2 votes

You don't get worse team-mates after a win streak, that's a myth.

Most likely, what happened is that LesVitesses is talking about a Normal Game, or a Flex Game, and that player is Plat in Solo/Duo but has a totally different ranking in the other queues.

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

You don't get worse team-mates after a win streak, that's a myth.

Most likely, what happened is that LesVitesses is talking about a Normal Game, or a Flex Game, and that player is Plat in Solo/Duo but has a totally different ranking in the other queues.

Its not a myth... Riots matchmaking actually strives to keep you at 50% - it does this by, when your win rate rises, pairing you with progressively worse team mates while your team is similar in mmr compared to the enemy team. A team comprised of 100/100/100/100/600 is a LOT worse than a team comprised of 200/200/200/200/200, especially if youre at an ELO where its more difficult to carry.

Theres a reason why diamond and challengers stop rising as fast around platinum or high gold.

Mhihnj23 votes

I tried dark harvest with this build on shaco: item 3100 item 3147 item 3146 item 3031 item 3027 + boots

The results are about what i expected.

Anu3isII8 votes

Why Rod of Ages? Try Ludens or Statick Shiv in my opinion.

SpecterVonBaren6 votes

There comes a point where you have enough damage and should focus on being able to take a hit better.

Glory ln Death2 votes

Who needs boots? Also, make it Trinity Force, not Lichbane. Maybe one of the Hydras instead of Ludens.

Nhifu2 votes

Tanks cant survive Lichbane burst Or big backstab crits

Ichi Ni San21 votes

late game is open for others that arent adc's now. im okay with that. fed ekko does suck tho :<

SweedishGunner34 votes

ADC's can use it too though...

XeroKimo1 votes

Whoops reread it, I was misinformed, they should change it to cannon minions only tbh, lame that every minion you get stacks, even worse that minions give more stacks than monster

JustARivenMain10 votes

{quoted}

Whoops reread it, I was misinformed, they should change it to cannon minions only tbh, lame that every minion you get stacks, even worse that minions give more stacks than monster

Only cannon minions drop souls, large monsters drop 2, and they nerfed it so champs only drop 8 instead of 10 now.

Dark Nephthys16 votes

This entire preseason is going to be stupid..But I'd admit that Dark Harvest is going to be OP. I just don't get Riot some times. A lot of people have been complaining about turrets being useless and to easy to take (which also makes games end to quickly..) so they introduce Demolish so even tanks can take towers much faster now? Oh and hey, even Dark Harvest works on structures to.

chipndip14 votes

To be ENTIRELY fair, here: They're buffing turrets in season 8 while adding more tools to ream them with.

wildfox9915 votes

i'm trying this rune a lot on pbe,and it isn't so OP as it looks:

Dark Harvest One Shot montage

mostly were diamond/master playing vs bronzes/silvers/gold,they get 20+ kills and 15+ assist so they stack it much more as it is supposed to work (it's like complaining about getting OS by a stacked and fed nasus or veigar),that's actually hard to do if you are playing in your elo (don't forget that on PBE a bronze can be matched with a diamond,everyone is unranked so the matchmaking is unbalanced af)

you guys would do good to shave off that type of insta-burst power from the keystone before it becomes another Thunderlord's case

electrocute is basically the same but it can be used from the distance (a fast burst combo would instaproc it anyway),but without the risk of autoattacking someone

sure it needs to be changed a bit,but about numbers: electrocute 220 + 30%AP + 50%AD,if you have 650 AP 100AD -> 465 damage edit,i didn't notice this nerf: dark harvest 140 100 + 10%AP + 15% AD,650AP 100AD -> 220 180 damage,so you need 245 285 stacks for getting even (about 30 35 takedown or 49 57 cannon minions or 122 142 large monsters)

the only change that i'd make is to giving it a 30%AP - 50% AD scaling but changing its damange to 60 at all ranks,so it would be the same on full damage champions but it would be a nerf if you are building tank (because this rune may allow some tanky/assassin build such the old fizz or ekko tank)

compared with electrocute,it's a risky but more rewarding rune,if you snowball a lane you get a bit more damage,if you are even you get a bit less damage and if you are losing it's totally useless so not every champinon can use it,syndra would never pick this one,you need an autoattack in your combo,and it wouldn't work with kassadin or viktor either,because they wouldn't stack this rune so electrocute would be just better,because it will surely scale with your levels and AP this rune works only with early/mid game champion,allowing them do be something in late if they did their job,instead of seeing your enemy just farming up some minutes and outscaling you like nothing is happened

finnally we got a mechanics that rewards for snowballing,phanteon for example may win his lane,but as hard he can snowball he will become useless after min 15 anyway,actually with this rune if he win his lane he will get a bonus,if he lose his lane or it is even he will end up to become useless

about its resets on kills,sure it is nice but compared with electrocute this rune makes you so predictable,you won't rush untill you get the cannon minion wawe,you will try to trade after you get a stack from minions or monsters (you know he's going to trade you,so you can bait him,or you jungler can gank for example),before 100 stacks its buff last only 20 sec (when you can proc electrocute whenever you want),and if you are getting killed or somehow you are not getting stacks it won't refresh (for example if you are low and you need to back when your cannon minion wawe is coming,you lost it),so trading with this rune is hard even if your enemy doesn't play around it and it also make your all in so obvious

i think that actually electrocute and press the attack are stronger than this,dark harvest is just fun when you are overfeed


edit 2:

with no way to counter-play it after 100 stacks since it lasts so long after that point.

other keystone last for the whole game,electrocute or arcane comet won't go in CD unless you don't use them,so where is the problem if this buff can last 300s if it's as strong as the others? the CD is just a nerf for the early game

chipndip113 votes
  • Do you know how LONG 20 seconds is in a pvp game? Team fights in this game last like half that time in most instances. You're telling me you're gonna get zoned off a wave for a bloody 20 seconds? People whined that Yasuo's tornado Q lasted too long at merely 10 seconds.

  • You're sitting here saying I'm overreacting while suggesting possible nerfs to the keystone at the same time. So...you agree with me that the item needs some power shaved off?

  • The MAIN issue I have with Dark Harvest is that it's based on farming. It's less about snowballing and more about ramping up. ANYONE can take it and ANYONE can either snowball off of it or use it to catch themselves back up. Like, I'm seeing where the thing's headed and I just don't like it.

wildfox993 votes

Do you know how LONG 20 seconds is in a pvp game? Team fights in this game last like half that time in most instances. You're telling me you're gonna get zoned off a wave for a bloody 20 seconds? People whined that Yasuo's tornado Q lasted too long at merely 10 seconds.

i meant for early trading,20 sec are not so much when you are laning,just stay back and farm untill the buff ends and then you are free to trading without almost any risk

You're sitting here saying I'm overreacting while suggesting possible nerfs to the keystone at the same time

it went nerfed enought (and maybe too much),actually its stats are: 60-100 damage + 10%AP + 15%AD +8 stacks per kill,+5 per cannon,+2 per large monster

basically if you snowball you get the same/a bit less damage than electrocute

The MAIN issue I have with Dark Harvest is that it's based on farming. It's less about snowballing and more about ramping up

if you just farm it will lack damage,you need kills and to dominate your lane or you will miss lots of stacks

ANYONE can take it and ANYONE can either snowball off of it or use it to catch themselves back up.

i just made some example of champion that can't take it it's weaker at early game than others (only decent when you all in or harass),you need to be a nice snowballer for staking it (unless you'd get about 100-150 less damage mid/late) and having an autoattack in your combo

unless you are a burst champion it's so bad,ADCs would never pick it (maybe only EZ jungle,but because he have an assassin like burst on his base rotation which is too stupid) precision tree is better,tank can pick gasp of undying,support works better with aery (better poke and shields),arcane comet is so good on mages for the AoE and lower CD,so yes everyone can pick this rune,like everyone can play nunu AP mid,but in both cases it isn't the best choise

Elikain8 votes

I think you took Vandril's videos way too seriously. Vandril does them and takes things to absolute extremes that don't and won't happen in the vast majority of games anyway. There's certainly a point to see how far we can push these new runes and where it breaks gameplay. But let's not just assume that because you saw the video showcasing these exact numbers, you think it's completely achievable in our games.

If it is, Riot could certainly limit the stacks or reduce the scaling. It's funny that you even have to tell them "balance your game before it comes out to Live" because the majority or Riot's resources are currently tied to balancing the new runes anyway.

If something happens out of line, it's the pre-season, where Riot is hoping to catch all the outliers and tone them down/up accordingly BEFORE the start of the new season, before ranked comes online again. This means the pre-season is a weird period of time where Riot can do big changes and can stabilize them before the start of ranked.

chipndip12 votes

Which one is Vandril's video?

SzGamer2274 votes

Vandiril did all three (Nasus, Ekko, Ezreal) one shot montages.

He commented (and I quote):

I got super fed in all of the games I played. It seems that matchmaking on PBE is super crappy (especially after new signups), so I usually end up facing e.g. silver players.

Fairyfleur3 votes

Which really frustrates me because a lot of people take Vandiril's videos to heart and assume that x thing he's showcasing is a big problem.

Quepha8 votes

{quoted}

Riot, this preseason has BIG stakes.

Not really, no. It's just preseason and everyone is expecting balance to be crazy. A lot of people are even looking forward to the game legitimately confusing them for at least a little while.

ShadowParker7 votes

I'd say it does. It's warping the game pretty massively.

Also. People always complain during preseason

chipndip12 votes

Edited the op to explain what I meant. Too many people to reply to on that front.

Cowseed5 votes

For the love of god... can you people at the very least post the stats or a short description or something when you make these?

Also I don't mind this. This means more viability for my akali jungle :D

EkyonKun4 votes

Its just as broken as those montages lead you to believe. I had a thresh swipe off 80% of my hp from a single auto. Its worth noting he built AD and I had Zhonyas and tabi.

kalima9945 votes

ad thresh is built so that he deals a lot of magic damage from his empowered auto that he gets from e, doesn't really matter if you have armor

parrot66322 votes

tbf i've done that on live building full ad thresh

OyddAWqJ5r4 votes

It's hilariously broken on PBE. Our whole premade worships Dark Harvest so much that all 5 of us no matter what role or champion will take Dark Harvest because it's just that broken.

Solidair34 votes

This preseason has NO stakes because Riot has told us months in advance that it's going to be a fucking disaster zone.

I don't expect this rune to launch in a balanced state and I'm hardly going to be mad for the week it takes them to nerf it.[sg-poppy]

Handin Out Naps3 votes

Thats what preseason is for lol, what do you mean this season has BIG stakes?

chipndip11 votes

Preseason has always built on previous seasons. This is the first destructive preseason the game's had. If the new runes come out and people start thinking the old runes were better, that's gonna be a major concern since there's no feasible way to return to the old runes after that point. This project is probably one of Riot's riskiest ones since they're shaking up one of the foundations of the game so hard.

Handin Out Naps3 votes

Well the old masteries arent better so you dont have to worry about that. There are more options now, and very strong options can always be tuned down during preseason.

Moon Mom3 votes

electocute does the same damage late game for those that burst. I think it's balanced tbh.

DorkunedAuras2 votes

Dark harvest can stack infinitely

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

I think the most of the one-shot montage videos are just crap that's pointless.

Most of the time they're impossible to reach. They stack whatever it is to a massive extreme that wouldn't be possible, or they use some build that's insane that just couldn't be done in any tier realistically. I mean, you could one-shot literally anyone with 8000 stacks on Kindred (before they were reworked - as it did enough %hp damage to bypass even 999,999 armor), but there was no way that could have ever been done in any match.

Kynami2 votes

Except that me and friends have been able to start pulling one shot combos from minute 12 onwards using things like AP Sona mid or the latest cheese build incarnation of Miss Fortune using Dark Harvest.

The point being the on-hit delivery crowd which includes things like Zed and Fizz using things like Duskblade and Lichbane are getting an immense power boost to the point where once team fight phase kicks in the snowball factor launches into overdrive. Because for every takedown they can scoop a soul from they get another massive on-hit charge they can deliver.

And don't even get me started on how insane it is in ARAM's clown fiesta. Because 600+ stacks within twenty minutes giving 700+ bonus damage on top of what your kit naturally has. 1700+ Damage MF Q's are not to be trifled with.

Bârd4 votes

Dark Harvest doesn't need massive stacks to do absurd damage.

At the very first cannon wave, you will be able to milk 92 extra damage out of it (Not counting any bonus AD/AP). Actually, that number is a little bit low, since you wouldn't be level 1 if you're on the cannon waves.

It's already powerful as a trading tool early game, its late game potential is just icing (laced with cocaine).

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