attack speed item that isn't linked to Crit.

MunchCrunchLunch·Jan 1, 2016·95 votes·4,220 views

Just AD or just AS completely. I'd love an item for like 2.5 k that gives you. 50% AS. and idk 50 AD. and 10% movement speed. and tenacity.

can we just get zephyr back. not all as champs need crit.

136 Comments

PogChampEleGigglJan 1, 201632 votes

Why was Zephyr even removed? I still don't understand. It wasn't OP and it had a good niche where it belonged.

SachabotJan 1, 201611 votes

They gave some statement, I'd go find it but I'm lazy. From what I gathered, the item was so niche that Riot couldn't even tell if it was balanced. Seems dumb, but there you go.

They might also have not wanted Tenacity on an item that appeals to ADCs, but that's just a guess.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 1, 201618 votes

{quoted}

They gave some statement, I'd go find it but I'm lazy. From what I gathered, the item was so niche that Riot couldn't even tell if it was balanced. Seems dumb, but there you go.

They might also have not wanted Tenacity on an item that appeals to ADCs, but that's just a guess.

who even buys ohmwrecker.? that shit needs to go away

SachabotJan 1, 20162 votes

When did I mention Ohmwrecker?

MunchCrunchLunchJan 1, 201616 votes

{quoted}

When did I mention Ohmwrecker?

am just saying if they deleted it because its niche. well. am pretty sure more people buy it than ohmwrecker

SachabotJan 1, 20165 votes

One wonders. I'd kind of like to see the data on that. Not that I ever will.....I did build Ohmwrecker on occasion, but it's worthless unless you're diving a lot, so I stopped.

That does make it more plausible that it was done in an attempt to keep Tenacity off of ADCs, though....

ChaddyFantomeJan 1, 20164 votes

Riot has this fetish with trying to make ohmrecker relevant like they have something to prove.

SachabotJan 1, 20164 votes

Niche items aren't irrelevant, that's kind of the point of all of this.

Yuumi or LoseJan 1, 20162 votes

Ohmwrecker has been with us since season 2 or 3. It's useless. People can deny it and be a bunch of hipsters but it's worthless. Thankfully the item is being reworked for season 6

YumaS2AstralJan 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

One wonders. I'd kind of like to see the data on that. Not that I ever will.....I did build Ohmwrecker on occasion, but it's worthless unless you're diving a lot, so I stopped.

That does make it more plausible that it was done in an attempt to keep Tenacity off of ADCs, though....

Why build Ohmwrecker when you can already dive so easily and still get out alive?

qetzelJan 1, 20166 votes

Zephyr didn't open up anything new strategically. It just gave you more stats.

Ohmwrecker still has value as a dive item if Riot can find the balance.

ParoeJan 1, 201612 votes

{quoted}

Zephyr didn't open up anything new strategically. It just gave you more stats.

Ohmwrecker still has value as a dive item if Riot can find the balance.

Zephyr was a splitpushing item; riot actually took a stance against splitpushing shortly before zephyr was removed. That being said, reworking zephyr into an AD version of nashors tooth would be great. make it into an item designed TO split push....

... id still LOVE a "cowards belt" or something that gave you a fat chunk of movement speed when moving AWAY from an enemy champion.

MelledoneusJan 2, 20169 votes

{quoted} ... id still LOVE a "cowards belt" or something that gave you a fat chunk of movement speed when moving AWAY from an enemy champion.

Singed Why, hellooooo beautiful!

ParoeJan 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Why, hellooooo beautiful!

Or bard xD But singed with a "cowards belt" would be powerful too.

BluePolarizerJan 2, 20162 votes

Cowards belt might not be a good idea... Vayne Singed Lucian Jinx Ashe Ziggs Lux

ParoeJan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Cowards belt might not be a good idea...

Youd have to be facing away from them to get any bonus is the idea. So pretty much only champs like singed would benefit from it.

YumaS2AstralJan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Youd have to be facing away from them to get any bonus is the idea. So pretty much only champs like singed would benefit from it.

The others can kite.

My Waifu VanillaJan 2, 20162 votes

Except they will most likely turn around to actually deal damage to the target. The idea is you are literally running away without stopping so the item would see mainly play on champions like Singed and Udyr who will do whatever it takes to just keep running from you (including driving by your Nexus while tier 2s are up).

Captain AishiJan 1, 20162 votes

if i recall correctly, zephyr was built (as more than a lategame boot replacement for adcs) more often than ohmwrecker in competitive play... but all times either items were built was by gambit :P

Posui GartJan 1, 201622 votes

item 3153 item 3124 item 3091 item 3115 item 3931

KarbuncleJan 1, 20166 votes

Did you read the post?

AckelopeJan 2, 20165 votes

I believe so, as all the items shown mentioned have AS without crit. BoRK and Guinsoo's also have AD, but the rest are on-hit, heavily auto-attack based, but isn't that generally what you're looking for if you're buying attack speed in general, more auto attack damage?

Sire HippingtonJan 2, 20162 votes

non of them gives tenacity or even MS, and MS is pretty neat if you want to AA consistantly... Also, one is a jungle item, on a mr+as item that empowers magic damage, the other an Ap item, so they don't fit the bill. Guinsoo's has the stacking mechanic and thus is mostly for splitpushing and some good value of it again is ap. BotrK is gives pretty poor ad and as for the gold, as alot of it's power is in it's active, lifesteal and %health on-hit.

So no, the niche zephyr once had is not filled by anything else...

Posui GartJan 2, 20162 votes

First, the title is "AS item without crit", all this items do just that. Tenacity is OP, MS is everywhere(every Phage/Zeal item). And why do you need AS item without crit? Every champion who needs AS benefits from crit, aside from Azir , Irelia , Sivir and Kalista , first one can use Nashor's, second is fine with Guinsoo/Botrk, third can get almost permanent W with attackspeed bonus and fourth is great Botrk/Runaan user even if Botrk is nerfed and Runaan got crit. Zephyr was used in really low number of games and only as boots replacement.

WezzJan 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A6ipFZly,comment-id=000700020000,timestamp=2016-01-02T12:27:07.282+0000)

First, the title is "AS item without crit", all this items do just that. Tenacity is OP, MS is everywhere(every Phage/Zeal item). And why do you need AS item without crit? Every champion who needs AS benefits from crit, aside from , , and , first one can use Nashor's, second is fine with Guinsoo/Botrk, third can get almost permanent W with attackspeed bonus and fourth is great Botrk/Runaan user even if Botrk is nerfed and Runaan got crit. Zephyr was used in really low number of games and only as boots replacement.

Master Yi after item 3931 item 3006 item 3153 gets around 1.9 AS before ulting

And that was last season before rageblade was a buy, I really wanted crit without hitting 2.5 AS as I needed more AD

Posui GartJan 2, 20163 votes

So you actually need AD+crit item without AS? Because Yi scales great with AD, so IE/BT are great(well, onhits do not crit so probably BT+hydra)

L RayquazaJan 1, 201612 votes

item 1042 http://res.cloudinary.com/urbandictionary/image/upload/a_exif,c_fit,h_200,w_200/v1395991705/gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.png

MunchCrunchLunchJan 1, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Rayquaza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A6ipFZly,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2016-01-01T21:16:19.293+0000)

http://res.cloudinary.com/urbandictionary/image/upload/a_exif,c_fit,h_200,w_200/v1395991705/gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.png

you little........

UltraboomerJan 1, 20167 votes

it's worth noting that while not all attack speed champions need crit, by nature all attack speed champions can benefit from crit. also, most zeal items have passives that make up for then not truly needing crit. item 3046 makes you faster and duel better, item 3078 has movespeed on basic attack and the highest spellblade damage in the game for AD champions, item 3087 has waveclear, item 3094 has med-high single target damage and a range increase.

item 3508 item 3031 just pointing out that these items synergise really well with crit if you're playing an AD/AS champ, since you're gonna have crit and want damage anyways. they aren't role exclusive to marksmen.

also for consideration is the warlord's bloodlust mastery which on crit gives you 20% attack speed for 4 seconds on a 2 second cooldown. I know that it's not as strong as thunderlords, but it is another way that attack speed based champions benefit from building crit beyond the raw damage multiplier.

also, item 3153 item 3006 item 3124 item 3115 item 3091 item 3142 item 3137 (I know dervish blade is not on summoner's rift)

and now I open the floor to debate my point.

Champion SkinJan 1, 20162 votes

You forgot one item 1403 / item 3930

The champions who most want attack speed but don't like crit would probably be on-hit champions as they generally favor getting as much attack speed as possible (instead of AD/Crit) to abuse on-hit effects as much as possible though of course the general problem with that in most cases is that it simply scale worse compared to AS+AD+Crit (however on-hit does work for bruisers or other champions which only build 1-2 offensive items because they wouldn't get all of the multiplicative value of the whole AD+AS+Crit thing anyways so on them on-hit with high AS might be better)

But in general yes most champions who use AS also use Crit... Though there are exceptions like Azir which do have a use for AS but get almost no value from crit

UltraboomerJan 1, 20161 votes

you're right, I did forget devourer for some reason. and I didnt even think of azir, but that's a really good point. he's kinda the only one, and benefits well from having a nashor's in that case though.

Champion SkinJan 2, 20162 votes

Well kind of... Azir is really odd... he works well with attack speed however on-hit and crit is useless on him... so almost all attack speed items have some effects on them which are useless to Azir (as almost all AS items have either on-hit effects or Crit)

I think item 3006 is the only attack speed item in the game which doesn't give Crit or on-hit (Well there are item 3142 and item 3156 but they are AD items and only sometimes give attack speed)

Starblaster11Jan 2, 20162 votes

Reading this stuff makes me think of Irelia because she is really good with attack speed but not so good with crit because her q can't crit.

Champion SkinJan 2, 20164 votes

Irelia work well with AS because she has a powerful on-hit which doesn't scale with anything other then AS

The reason Irealia doesn't work well with Crit is that she usually don't have that high AD and AS... as Irelia usually builds defensive items after 1-2 offensive items

While crit is best when you stack AD and AS

an example of why crit is much better when you already have high AD and AS because it is a multiplier... if you have 100% crit you double your AA DPS... if you have 100 AD then you only need 100 more AD to double your AA DPS (so 100% crit would be worth about 100AD when it comes to AA DPS) however if you have 400 AD then you need 400 more AD to double your AA DPS which means then Crit would be worth 400 AD when it comes to AA DPS

The Yetii RiderJan 1, 20164 votes

Attack speed items that have no crit:

Wit's End (REALLY good on Irelia, Shen, Udyr and Warwick, no idea why more people don't use it.)

Blade of the Ruined King (How many must suffer for a king's loss?)

Devourer

Nashor's Tooth (AS and 20% CDR plus a little on-hit damage. Even if you don't need the AP, and almost every champion has at least one AP ratio in their kit, it's still a good item).

Pierce The VealJan 1, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Nashor's Tooth (AS and 20% CDR plus a little on-hit damage. Even if you don't need the AP, and almost every champion has at least one AP ratio in their kit, it's still a good item).

Stop. No. Do not build this item if you aren't building AP. It is not a good idea.

WimbledofyJan 1, 20161 votes

Why not?

Axis the DragonJan 1, 20163 votes

Because the base damage is terrible (15 vs Wit's End's 42) and the AP Ratio on Nashor's on hit effect is pretty low as well (15%). By itself, Nashor's passive isn't very good with only its own AP (only about 27 damage - you get way more from Wit's) - you need iirc at least around 180 AP to make Nashor's break even with Wit's.

Duke AnaxJan 2, 20162 votes

You don't really build it for the on hit, you build it for the CDR. It is surprisingly strong as a first item on Aatrox.

It Hertz When IPJan 2, 20163 votes

This is why we need Zephyr or some similar replacement back, so people don't feel like buying an item with a subpar (for them) aspect just because they need an AS/CDR item.

The Bíg TicketJan 1, 20163 votes

I agree, Zephy was an excellent item on Udyr and Irelia/Jax when you had to go Tabi.

LycanoonJan 1, 20163 votes

item 3085 ... AS CS MS... But what more could you ask for? If your R has some punch to it, yea. Want AD and CC/CD? item 3031

Too expensive? blah blah blah... Just team up with everyone and pull off GANKS early! What happened to map-hopping team efforts? Last Normal PVP matches I've been in, it was a back and forth Team Gank fest! I mean, for real.

eye roll What happened to Tactical Play? Why is it all about Raw DPS/AS/CR/CD? Need a balanced tank or two with 3 AP/ADC's packing the punches...

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

It Hertz When IPJan 1, 201612 votes

Wow.

item 3085 , OP said he didn't want to pay for crit. That was literally the point of the post. item 3031 , offers only AD and crit stats, see point above.

At this point I'm inclined to think you were actually typing a reply to a different thread and put it here by mistake. That's the only way I can think of that your reply would have had any thought behind it.

TaarkiJan 2, 20163 votes

You mean the old item 3085 ? Before they made it so that the item that was supposed to give the most AS suddenly gave half of that...

GrReaper96Jan 2, 20163 votes

I miss the old item 3085

PePsiLemoNNJan 1, 20162 votes

I can't think of any champ who needs AS but doesn't need crit

MunchCrunchLunchJan 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I can't think of any champ who needs AS but doesn't need crit

a lot of mele champs do.

Gregor GysiJan 1, 20164 votes

Kayle Teemo Azir Aatrox Jax Olaf They all need AS (some more, some less) but they don't need to have crit. Some of them can't use crit pretty much at all. There are also more..