What prevents Zac from being made better?

darkdill·Jan 31, 2015·10 votes·1,387 views

Zac rarely sees good use because his early and mid game kinda sucks. He's only dangerous to a degree if he gets to late-game, which RARELY happens.

I'd like to know what holds Zac back from getting any sort of buffs. Sure, Elastic Slingshot now spawns more bloblets if he hits multiple Champions, but that's not a great bonus IMO. It doesn't help his unstable early/mid-game slumps.

Also, if he's encouraged to build so much health, why does he not have any health-to-damage ratios on any abilities? Too much power?

27 Comments

stealthfox94Feb 1, 20156 votes

I'm pretty sure Zac and Vladimir were designed by the same people, My guess is that person no longer has a job.

terkmcFeb 1, 20153 votes

That and Riot just hate heal/drain tank in general. Vlad is left undesriable. Zac is weak. Olaf is Olaf'ed. Aatrox is not that good.

LankPantsFeb 1, 20152 votes

Nope, not even close. Vlad was designed by Ezreal, who still works at Riot and Zac was designed by Subninja who also still works at Riot.

SlowChemicalFeb 1, 20151 votes

Just wondering, is there somewhere to find that information? I wouldn't mind seeing who designs who.

LankPantsFeb 1, 20151 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Riot_Games

You can find most of them here, though I had to specifically search for Zac's designer.

SookoFeb 1, 20154 votes

Zac isn't an ADC, Zac isn't an assassin, Zac's plays aren't flashy, Zac is a tank, Zac is not Lee or Zed, Zac can't windwall

But I think he could use the love of a buff or two. I have seen some cool ideas about buffs such as letting his Q pick up blobs, so I don't think you are alone on this.

darkdillFeb 1, 20152 votes

Riot stated they won't let his Q pick up bloblets because it'd make his top-lane obnoxious. To quote them, it'd be like an AOE Vlad Q that slows.

KingsgraveFeb 1, 20154 votes

They don't want Zac to become a mindless top laning monstrosity again.

Rew711Feb 1, 20152 votes

Well, I wish that Zac wouldn't be so hard to lane...

Passive: easy to kill.

Q: his only good move.

W: deals no damage unless they have enormous health.

E: flings himself a short distance.

R: deals a minimal of 350/525/700 damage if each bounce hits. Miss 1? That's –70/–105/–140 each time you miss. The first bounce deals a total of 140/210/280. He first deals damage from a first bounce and then bounces 3 times dealing additional damage. After the first bounce hits a champion, that champion can only take 70/105/140 additional damage per bounce.

Zac's kit just isn't as rewarding as other tanks are. If his passive would allow 25% of his health to each blob when reviving, things might be better.

10TicklerFeb 1, 20154 votes

Zac, and other tanks, won't see any love until Riot finally stops getting Erect at the thought of Penetration, %max HP and %Current HP damage.

ErockandrollJan 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Also, if he's encouraged to build so much health, why does he not have any health-to-damage ratios on any abilities? Too much power?

Keep in mind that if you give him good HP ratio's on abilities, you end up giving More damage while being tanky. Combined with the CC in his kit. It's a bad lever of balance because he would Either never be able to get to late game, Or be Over Bearing if he does.

If we should balance Zac as a tank. I would Recommend %HP magic Damage. Similar to tanks like Mundo and Maokai, %HP allows for a base level of trading with their tanky counterparts without being Over Bearing against Squishes. And they don't really need any Offensive Items for it to work so they can build full tank.

Done25Feb 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Keep in mind that if you give him good HP ratio's on abilities, you end up giving More damage while being tanky. Combined with the CC in his kit. It's a bad lever of balance because he would Either never be able to get to late game, Or be Over Bearing if he does.

Yo're presenting a slippery slope. They just have to give him ratios that aren't overbearing. Like +1% total/bonus health

If we should balance Zac as a tank. I would Recommend %HP magic Damage. Similar to tanks like Mundo and Maokai, %HP allows for a base level of trading with their tanky counterparts without being Over Bearing against Squishes. And they don't really need any Offensive Items for it to work so they can build full tank.

He already has HP% damage on his W. And Tanks SHOULD have to build damage to do damage. At least a Rylai's, Zbyssal, or a Zhonya. Just SOMETHING.

MatezoideFeb 1, 20152 votes

Not flashy enough.

Only Play DariusFeb 1, 20151 votes

What? He has one of the flashiest kits in the game! Look at his E and R!

BudupopsFeb 1, 20152 votes

That buff to his bloblets is near useless due to 99% of mid laners buying item 3165 . The item makes zac weaker in general. Also his ultimate buff makes it harder to use efficiently in solo q. Now enemies are bounced away, instead of just up. This makes it harder for your team to land skills since there is mass confusion where the enemies will go.

Plus riot hates tanks.

Social Justice 1Feb 1, 20152 votes

Season 3 Zac stops current Zac from getting buffs.

@OP You really underestimate Zac's early game. He's one of the few junglers that can level 2 gank well.

ABlueQuakerFeb 1, 20151 votes

A lot has changed since season 3. I'm sure if riot returned tenacity to his ultimate he'd be pretty balanced compared to what he was back then.

GrombleFeb 1, 20151 votes

if his kit does damage it becomes over bearing so they just leave him weak. I don't think he has a weak early, you can gank at lvl 3 so its not that bad. To me its that because he does so little dmg he is super reliant on your teammates to be on the ball when you show up.

SleepyLionCubFeb 1, 20151 votes

Any champion that doesnt really die when u kill them, is never going to get buffed unfortunately.

Thats why we never see Zilean, Anivia, or Kayle buffs.

DurzakaFeb 1, 20151 votes

Riot doesnt want Zac to EVER be used in lane again is what is basically boils down to.

Any change they would make to buff Zac in the jungle would make lane Zac even better (one of the key ones people really want is letting his Q pick up blobs).

femméFeb 1, 20151 votes

i think just a little bit of a base dmg buff would put him into being viable. Either base dmg or a faster passive imo i think both. (seems a little too much though) Zac scales really good into late game however he can't deal any dmg and his one escape is easy to stop as long as you save your cc for it. Giving him a faster passive will allow you to not get deleted the second it procs and also you should remove smiting it from the table. This should make zac viable again because right now he's just on the cusp of becoming viable all he needs is a buff in the right spot and he'll be doing fine.

Shy ChibiFeb 1, 20151 votes

I' am surprised no body has mentioned that trailblazer completley nullifies his passive.

RozzetaFeb 1, 20151 votes

Rioters feel disgusted to have to work on a tank.

Only Play DariusFeb 1, 20151 votes

Because when Zac was released, he could legitimately 1v3 without being fed, which would end up getting fed and later on legitimately 1v5ing.

Or so I have heard, I wouldn't know, I started playing on Braum's release.

WarlockLawFeb 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A3Z8lhEg,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-02-01T15:47:55.332+0000)

Because when Zac was released, he could legitimately 1v3 without being fed, which would end up getting fed and later on legitimately 1v5ing.

Or so I have heard, I wouldn't know, I started playing on Braum's release.

This is fairly accurate of his release patch. I won a team fight as Zac after my entire team got knocked down to half health with one of them dead. I wasn't even building full tank I had spectral wraith rylais scepter and haunting guise

iMaB3ASTFeb 1, 20151 votes

I'm sad that zac is better as a support than a top laner or jung. Play zac support and u can win games for once with zac

RebonackFeb 1, 20151 votes

Crazy idea: Give Zac mana and mana costs on his abilities rather than current HP costs, keep the heal on bloblet pickup in some capacity.

That would make picking up the blobs a bonus rather than an absolute requirement. It would also force him to play the mana game to keep him from just sitting around sustaining top forever. I suspect this would make it MUCH easier to tweak his balance while also making people feel better about buying useful items like Rod of Ages or Frozen Heart on him.