As a high elo ap assassin main

Poske·Apr 10, 2018·49 votes·16,926 views

is subpar

Old Ludens was considered weak-ish

This new item however is way worse

94 Comments

Zed geniusApr 10, 201829 votes

Does anyone build this item when they are not doing a "1000 AP KARTHUS ONE SHOT PENTAKILL FROM BASE MY MOM DIVORCED MY DAD AFTER THIS ONE" video?

Rins Thigh SocksApr 11, 201814 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-10T20:59:46.987+0000)

Does anyone build this item when they are not doing a "1000 AP KARTHUS ONE SHOT PENTAKILL FROM BASE MY MOM DIVORCED MY DAD AFTER THIS ONE" video?

1000 AP JUNGLE SWAIN I TRIED LEAVING FOR A WEEK BUT I GOT PULLED BACK BY HIS PASSIVE

CunkyApr 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-10T20:59:46.987+0000)

Does anyone build this item when they are not doing a "1000 AP KARTHUS ONE SHOT PENTAKILL FROM BASE MY MOM DIVORCED MY DAD AFTER THIS ONE" video?

Kennen

FutureCreatorApr 11, 20181 votes

Then you realize you can just get a item 3089 instead.

CunkyApr 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Then you realize you can just get a instead.

item 3151 item 3165 item 3907 item 3089 item 3135 / item 3157 / item 3102 / item 3905 item 3020 is a normal Kennen build for me

PoskeApr 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prince of Uganda,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-11T20:25:19.663+0000)

/ // is a normal build for me

kennen is not an assassin tho

This item was created by assassins but secretly it was vladimir wet dream (best vlad players dont build it often)

I would also reccomend shurleya over spellbinder on kennen

CunkyApr 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

kennen is not an assassin tho

This item was created by assassins but secretly it was vladimir wet dream (best vlad players dont build it often)

I would also reccomend shurleya over spellbinder on kennen

i mean i havent played kennen since shureleyas came out lol but i like spellbinder for the sick nasty ult plays

Craft ZeppelinApr 11, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-10T20:59:46.987+0000)

Does anyone build this item when they are not doing a "1000 AP KARTHUS ONE SHOT PENTAKILL FROM BASE MY MOM DIVORCED MY DAD AFTER THIS ONE" video?

Not if you were not aborted as well. XD

Sire HippingtonApr 10, 201828 votes

I think the stats and active Are quite solid, but the chargeing up through spamming is a horrible idea for it, if it instead had a fixed value on the active with a 30-60sec cd, it was much better for assasins.

What bufels me WAAAY more is that it doesn't built from item 3916 ? Just look at the two icons: item 3907 , how can they not be related? Also, how does a orb and a rod result in a book? + item 1026 = item 3165 ?!? if it atleast contained amp tomes...

Anyway, how about item 3916 item 3113 +750g = item 3907 (3100g total) -75 AP -250hp -10% ms **-Unique passive **Touch of Death: 15magic pen -Unique Active: 10-60ap(based on level) and 10 flat magic pen for 8sec and a 35% speedboost decaying over 3 sec, 45sec cd

The flat pen fits the burst focus more and hp helps assasins surviveing when they get deep, the icons fit and we could use an flatpen alternative to morellos for when we don't want/need the heal reduce, and most of all the active would be usefull even if you aren't Cassiopeia or Ryze

PoskeApr 10, 201811 votes

Main issue with this item the fact that ap assassins dont care about ms boost

Leblanc - doesnt give a fk about ms boost Katarina - doesnt give a fk about ms boost Akali - doesnt give a fk about ms boost Kassadin - doesnt give a fk about ms boost Fizz - doesnt give a fk about ms boost

give us something else

Sire HippingtonApr 10, 201813 votes

I disagree on most of them, the speed boost helps alot at getting into gapcloseing range. Though maybe the speedboost could trigger again on takedown, helping them to escape after a succesfull kill or further cleaning up the fight, but that might be to strong. Also, up to 60 ap and 10flat pen is powerfull enough, it leads to a total of 135ap** and 25 flat pen **from the item, which is pretty massive.

PoskeApr 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-04-10T22:56:48.855+0000)

I disagree on most of them, the speed boost helps alot at getting into gapcloseing range. Though maybe the speedboost could trigger again on takedown, helping them to escape after a succesfull kill or further cleaning up the fight, but that might be to strong. Also, up to 60 ap and 10flat pen is powerfull enough, it leads to a total of 135ap** and 25 flat pen **from the item, which is pretty massive.

Speedboost doesnt matter

Le blanc engage starts from 1300 range which is further a champion can see Katarina is resset assassin speedboost does nothing she is jumping Ekko gains so much movementspeed from passive its irelevant I can see fizz using it after he hits a shark but at that point its not for ms Kassadin has lots of viable items due to mana scallings he definetly d

All of this champions are better off with Gunblade/ludens/lichbane if they want burst

DivewingApr 11, 20184 votes

These are all specific scenarios, not the norm.

Assassin's love movespeed because it makes them less reliant on their gap-closers.

Shit, every champion likes movement speed, there is no situation where it is a negative.

sir d wreckApr 11, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Shit, every champion likes movement speed, there is no situation where it is a negative.

I once saw a low health Yi get feared by a Fiddlesticks causing him to run hyperspeed into the enemy tower to die.

kingskytireApr 11, 20182 votes

I need to see this. This would be beautiful.

ŚhunpoApr 12, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Main issue with this item the fact that ap assassins dont care about ms boost

- doesnt give a fk about ms boost - doesnt give a fk about ms boost - doesnt give a fk about ms boost - doesnt give a fk about ms boost - doesnt give a fk about ms boost

give us something else

Kat does give a fuck about a ms boost. It's just that she cannot wait 100 spells to effectively do it.

HäxelApr 11, 20184 votes

Also, how does a orb and a rod result in a book? + = ?!? if it atleast contained amp tomes...

Dude.... item 1058 + = item 3089 item 1042 + = item 1043 item 1036 -> item 3035 Or you make a scepter put of a sword and change it back to a sword later? ( item 1053 ) item 1037 as a whole the same: You just make swords out of it. This is not the hammer of a smith, this is normaly for mining. Recently someone gave also the fair question why item 3116 is blue if it is not build out of a item 1027 but out of a item 1028 .

LordGeovanniApr 11, 20181 votes

Its not charging through spamming its supposed to charge slower in 1v1's and faster in team fights that is what its going for.

Sire HippingtonApr 11, 20181 votes

Yet the active mostly is great for 1v1 all ins and the main users currently are cassio and ryze because they can easily stack it up all on their own. Also, it has an CD on top of the charge mechanic, so you won't be able to use it more than once per teamfight anyway. That mechanic simply feels bad on the item and limits it'S use alot.

LordGeovanniApr 12, 20181 votes

Everything is better 4 1v1's when it gives you imediate power and isnt reliant of Some other factor out side of your control like item 3193 needing 3 people around to be effective while still cutting damge by the same amount if both instances. Or needing the enemy to hit a certian burst threshold for item 3053 to work.

LordGeovanniApr 13, 20181 votes

What your basicly saying is that because some characters can easily charge it by themselves that other people cant make use of it. You can easily use this in a lane where you need spells to farm and the enemy needs spells to farm. Aka any lane early before 25 mins and any lane that doesnt have and adc in it after 25 mins. you dont even need it fully charged for it to be effective 100 ap is very much over kill and should send this item over 3800 gold cost. this item would be more balanced with a 30 ap cap. Feels bad to use is something people say when things dont make them as powerful as you want to be. And from that we know why all the tanks in the game feel bad to use all the bruisers feel bad to use and all the ranged characters feel bad to fight when they out run you despite having innate range advantage because their core items have free movment speed item 3086 item 3113

Total EclipseApr 12, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-10T22:00:27.617+0000)

I think the stats and active Are quite solid, but the chargeing up through spamming is a horrible idea for it, if it instead had a fixed value on the active with a 30-60sec cd, it was much better for assasins.

What bufels me WAAAY more is that it doesn't built from ? Just look at the two icons: , how can they not be related? Also, how does a orb and a rod result in a book? + = ?!? if it atleast contained amp tomes...

Anyway, how about +750g = (3100g total) -75 AP -250hp -10% ms **-Unique passive **Touch of Death: 15magic pen -Unique Active: 10-60ap(based on level) and 10 flat magic pen for 8sec and a 35% speedboost decaying over 3 sec, 45sec cd

The flat pen fits the burst focus more and hp helps assasins surviveing when they get deep, the icons fit and we could use an flatpen alternative to morellos for when we don't want/need the heal reduce, and most of all the active would be usefull even if you aren't or

riot actually needs to hire you

PoskeApr 12, 20181 votes

I am not saying that he would be worse then balance team.

But his item rework does nothing to make it more attractive on assassins.

It just makes item better all together for everyone ,and makes me think that he is Vladimir main which is one of my biggest complaints about ap itemization rework and recent ap item changes. They all look like they were done by a plat 3 vlad main or ryze mains.

LarrietApr 13, 20181 votes

The two icons were taken from old items; the black sphere item did, in fact, build into the purple sphere item.

Murksphere item 3916 > Swindlers Orb > Globe of Trust item 3907

Incidentally, the new Morello icon is also from an old item. These items were in Black Market Brawlers.

Little PadawanApr 10, 201816 votes

I believe this item is just a Myth, never seen it in my games

FutureCreatorApr 11, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I believe this item is just a Myth, never seen it in my games

I know of an even more elusive relic, so rare it is only heard of in whispers item 2065

Destructor242Apr 11, 20185 votes

Hey don't bash on item 2065 I build it every time along with righteous glory and mobis when I am running it down mid.

Starcraft243verApr 11, 20181 votes

Actually a main veigar plays with this right now. At top Elo.

LordGeovanniApr 13, 20181 votes

item 3512 item 3056 item 3060

0 HogapuApr 10, 20186 votes

The only thing that is good in it, is its cost for its raw stats. Its active is pretty bad, and I think it is caused by the movespeed decaying so quickly.

Akali is SO HOTApr 10, 20184 votes

I've tried it a few times on Akali and I haven't really liked it all that much. The stats are great, but the active is so meh. Tbh even when I buy it I sometimes forget the active is even there lol. I'll probably try it out some more and see if I can make it work, but I'm not really satisfied with it all that much.

Death by GlamourApr 10, 20184 votes

yeh its hard to compare it to item 3147 , not that I'm saying ap assasins should get an item like this

ExternalLinkApr 11, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-10T22:16:50.879+0000)

yeh its hard to compare it to , not that I'm saying ap assasins should get an item like this

Lich Bane is pretty similar damage wise tbf. And it's what a lot of AP assassins have been balanced around since time immemorial...huh...maybe that's where Riot got the idea from.

Death by GlamourApr 11, 20181 votes

Its a terrible build path tho and its counting on the champ having an AA within there combo.

ExternalLinkApr 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2018-04-11T18:41:36.134+0000)

Its a terrible build path tho and its counting on the champ having an AA within there combo.

Really? Because at one point or another Lich Bane has been rushed on Fizz, Diana, Midalee and even Ekko.

Death by GlamourApr 12, 20181 votes

and one point or another is a 10year span :D

no its good on certain assasins its just not the be all and end all for ap assasins like duskblade is for ad ones

LordGeovanniApr 13, 20181 votes

Lichbane may be 3-4 years old

FutureCreatorApr 13, 20181 votes

Most characters that build it have an AA in their build ( Fizz Diana Nidalee Elise Akali Ekko Evelynn Ziggs Zoe ). It's really not that uncommon to have AP assassins auto attack or an ability that applies it.

Jerry SeinfeIdApr 10, 20184 votes

isn't this supposed to be for burst mages? like syndra or lux.

PoskeApr 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-04-10T22:34:40.083+0000)

isn't this supposed to be for burst mages? like syndra or lux.

Why get this over ludens or voidstaff later on

Entire mage itemization update and recent mage items were changed by Vladimir/ryze/kasadin mains

item 2065 - good on vlad item 3905 - good on vlad in theory atleast item 3907 - good on vlad in theory atleast

Every single mana item for ryze/kassadin

Jerry SeinfeIdApr 10, 20181 votes

I don't, i never said it was good.

the only champs i can see using it now are cass, ryze and karthus so i guess it's more of a battlemage item atm.

PoskeApr 11, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-04-10T23:35:50.838+0000)

I don't, i never said it was good.

the only champs i can see using it now are cass, ryze and karthus so i guess it's more of a battlemage item atm.

Uh no its bad on those to

2Charmnot2CharmApr 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0TEhvdV,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-04-10T22:34:40.083+0000)

isn't this supposed to be for burst mages? like syndra or lux.

Why are you spamming your spells as lux? They all have a 10 second cooldown so good luck when someone jumps you because you're spamming spells just to charge that garbage item, or miss a opportunity to get a pick because your Q is on cooldown.

NineTailedMysticApr 11, 20182 votes

It charges off of ALL nearby spell casts.

2Charmnot2CharmApr 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It charges off of ALL nearby spell casts.

So? This changes nothing for assassins since they tend to be away from their teammates in order to set up a flank or split push, and your teammates aren't always going to be playing a champ that really doesn't care about their spells being on cooldown (example Ezreal .

NineTailedMysticApr 11, 20182 votes

I'm just saying, you don't need to spam your own spells to stack it.

BattalionApr 11, 20183 votes

"As a high elo AP assassin main"

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Reaper ClawsApr 11, 20181 votes

He is actually Challenger.

BattalionApr 11, 20184 votes

Right, but saying "I'm xyz" rank doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. There's so often high elo players who don't read tool tips, passives, etc. Most high elo players aren't good theory crafters, they live within the meta to stay at the top, their experiences are frankly limited to what's the most effective way to win, and are subject to group mentalities about items, champions, and runes. Appealing to your rank doesn't do much in the way of justifying your assertions. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, that's laughably false, but how good your in game performance is doesn't immediately translate to game balancing knowledge.

Reaper ClawsApr 12, 20182 votes

Ahhhhh... so that is why Riot is okay with hiring silver players on the balancing team.