UPDATE for the champion update schedule

Greymoore·Apr 10, 2015·61 votes·113,738 views

Just like the title says, can the list be updated so we can keep track of what Riot currently has cooking in its champion update oven.

174 Comments

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 201584 votes

Things that we are currently working on:

-Ryze (duh) -Ashe (small scope) -Gangplank -Poppy -Taric -Urgot -Fiora -Shen -Yorick (just started, so a ways off)

This doesn't mean 100% expect to see these in the next year, sometimes things get modified or put on hold. Not every one of these projects is like Sion in size and scope as well, the update is meant to fit the needs of the champ. Also, don't have a lot of details to share on the specifics of these, but info will come in time.

Hope that answers your question.

KingsgraveApr 10, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Things that we are currently working on:

-Ryze (duh) -Ashe (small scope) -Gangplank -Poppy -Taric -Urgot -Fiora -Shen -Yorick (just started, so a ways off)

This doesn't mean 100% expect to see these in the next year, sometimes things get modified or put on hold. Not every one of these projects is like Sion in size and scope as well, the update is meant to fit the needs of the champ. Also, don't have a lot of details to share on the specifics of these, but info will come in time.

Hope that answers your question.

Dude I can't wait for Shen to be a badass Ninja. You guys need to make his kit similar to Zed's yet also the antithesis of his because of lore. They trained under the same master afterall.

From Polycount LoL Contest: http://s012.radikal.ru/i319/1411/a8/e6f4c78c5836.jpg

Here is an idea I had for Shen:_ (the general idea is that he is a Tank that plays like an Assassin even on live so I went with that idea. That and Akali is Fighter/Assassin, Kennen is Mage/Assassin so Shen fills the void with Tank/Assassin)_

Shen an actual ninja now P: Not attacking or taking damage generates stacks and at max stacks Shen deals an AoE auto attack spin (No AS anymore because thats too fightery) Q: Shen immediately lunges forward to damage and slow, and lunges a second time if the first hit a target (NINJA DASH) W: spell shield that teleports shen behind the target if absorbed a spell, silences and damages the target (More fitting of "Feint") E: brief delay then shen disappears from the game and reappears at target location, taunting all targets (a true "Shadow Dash" and reminiscent of Zed's R) R: 5500 range ground targeted teleport that grants a shield to allies per second of channel and an MS bonus for allies upon arrival_ (can't ult from top anymore but gets pantheon like initiation) _

Ace Access Apr 10, 20151 votes

can we get an ETA on each champ update ?

Jeddy017Apr 10, 20155 votes

It's best not to ask for ETAs.Riot doesn't like giving them out on anything. Why?Because something can happen to delay to release & people will get upset.Especially if a number of delays happens or if the project is overall put on a hiatus.You might not get upset,I won't get upset,but there will be people who would flood the boards with complaints about the Helmet Bro relauch not arriving on schedule.

ULTRAF0RCEApr 10, 20152 votes

apparently it also was an issue with some of their previous works and that happening. For example, people are still asking for Ao Shin and god knows if he has been scrapped multiple times already and revamped, so he might not even be out till 2016

TerraRisingApr 10, 201516 votes

{quoted}

Things that we are currently working on:

-Ryze (duh) -Ashe (small scope) -Gangplank -Poppy -Taric -Urgot -Fiora -Shen **-Yorick **(just started, so a ways off)

This doesn't mean 100% expect to see these in the next year, sometimes things get modified or put on hold. Not every one of these projects is like Sion in size and scope as well, the update is meant to fit the needs of the champ. Also, don't have a lot of details to share on the specifics of these, but info will come in time.

Hope that answers your question.

Does this mean that Yorick is the last champion on the list to be reworked? If so... are we looking at 2017 for a projected release?

If this is the case, I cannot express my disappointment enough. Yorick is the company's least promoted champion, has been waiting nearly 4 years for a skin since launch and no skin likely forthcoming, has not been put on free week rotation in over two years and has been called "Riot's biggest mistake" by some employees.

Why isn't he higher on the priority list?

Chromatic EagleApr 10, 20154 votes

You probably just answered your own question.

TerraRisingApr 10, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9tNOPRJQ,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2015-04-10T16:28:39.335+0000)

You probably just answered your own question.

I don't see how. A champion Riot doesn't want to currently promote should be a high priority to fix.

NarasimhaApr 10, 20152 votes

No, not really. It makes much more sense to rework champions that are used more often, since that means they probably really need to be reworked. While yes, Yorick does need some major changes, its not like many people play him, so he doesn't make that much of an impact.

TerraRisingApr 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No, not really. It makes much more sense to rework champions that are used more often, since that means they probably really need to be reworked. While yes, Yorick does need some major changes, its not like many people play him, so he doesn't make that much of an impact.

It's a situation Riot created, though. He's unpopular on purpose and is not given the chance to earn fans. It's Riot's fault he's not popular and it should be their priority to rectify this.

CosnirakApr 11, 20152 votes

He's not unpopular on purpose. Why would they make something that they want to sell poorly?

Riot doesn't HAVE to fix Yorick. They want to. That doesn't make it their priority though. It also doesn't make fixing it FAST a good choice.

Personally I don't feel that Yorick's identity is all that appealing. If most players feel that way that means that even if his game play is made a lot better he still might not sell all that well. This would make using high priority resources and hard work towards fixing him a BAD idea. Sucks for those that do really like him though. And maybe a lot of people who aren't me really like his identity, I don't know. shrug

Chromatic EagleApr 10, 20155 votes

I'm saying that Riot has this circular logic regarding Yorick. He doesn't get promoted, so they delay fixing him so he can get promoted.

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 201520 votes

The work Xelnath was doing on Yorick a while back was put down when he moved to other projects. Since then we have just been busy with the other projects that we had already started on.

As some design and other resources opened up recently, we assessed which champs are the highest on our priority list and Yorick was a landslide winner. So this is why he is back on track and the whole team is committed to making him really great. Expect that this will take time though, because doing it right isn't the same thing as doing it fast.

PS - Your passion for getting Yorick fixed isn't misplaced, that guy has so much room to be better.

DwarvenGiantApr 10, 20154 votes

About the size of his update, would it be Sion/Poppy/Urgot-size? Also, what will be the scope of his visual changes (If he's getting any)? Complete VU with redesign or a MTU?

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 201512 votes

For Yorick? Definitely Sion level. He will need full gameplay, visuals, sounds.

Jeddy017Apr 10, 20154 votes

When talking Sion levels,are you guys also including lore update/rewrite along with gameplay,visual & sounds?

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 20155 votes

Definitely.

Chromatic EagleApr 11, 20152 votes

Any details on what you're doing with Fiora? Gameplay, visual, and possible lore changes?

Jeddy017Apr 11, 20153 votes

From what I read on the boards,her update is going to be gameplay focused.Her visuals aren't that bad & her lore fits in the new lore.

CuixApr 10, 201513 votes

Please involve Yorick's fans in discussing what they love about Yorick on all fronts, and let that feedback strongly shape the rework. Y'all did that with Sion, and I think he turned out great.

TerraRisingApr 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The work Xelnath was doing on Yorick a while back was put down when he moved to other projects. Since then we have just been busy with the other projects that we had already started on.

This does not bode well for any reasonable timeline.

Xelnath's rework thread was closed one year and three months ago. It's only NOW that you say the team is getting started on it. So... is 2017 still a reasonable expectation for completion, unless the team just gives up on it like they did Fiora?

As some design and other resources opened up recently, we assessed which champs are the highest on our priority list and Yorick was a landslide winner. So this is why he is back on track and the whole team is committed to making him really great. Expect that this will take time though, because doing it right isn't the same thing as doing it fast.

I'm glad to read that the team is "committed to making [Yorick] really great," but this is also the same company who was committed to making the Lore great (Freljord and Retcon disasters) and committed to making new skins that was "worth the wait" since their last released ones (Blood Moon Zilean being the latest failure in that regard).

So, forgive me, but I'm not going to hold my breath in anticipation. Sorry, the entire company lost the right to ask for my faith years ago and have done nothing to earn it back.

PS - Your passion for getting Yorick fixed isn't misplaced, that guy has so much room to be better.

I only wish the same passion I have for Yorick had already been reciprocated by the company in charge of making him better.

insaiyanbaccaApr 10, 20154 votes

yeah, but its less yorick is a bad champ(hes actually pretty good) its just he is so boring and unfun to play as/against and i wish more of the community knew this

Solidair3Apr 10, 20152 votes

Question about Taric: we know his biggest problem is that he lacks a good thematic direction. Does this mean he has a kit ready to go, but needs art support, etc, or does it mean that work on a kit won't even begin until he has a solid identity?

I've always been curious about this aspect of the really big sion level projects

Amsun ThalesApr 10, 20157 votes

"Our company prides itself in doing a job: well, fast, cheap*.

*pick two"

Not something I'm saying about Riot, just something I remembered in regards to "doing it right isn't the same thing as doing it fast" :>

AriafluxApr 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Things that we are currently working on:

-Ryze (duh) -Ashe (small scope) -Gangplank -Poppy -Taric -Urgot -Fiora -Shen -Yorick (just started, so a ways off)

Is this given in chronological order? c:

Glitter SpitterApr 10, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Is this given in chronological order? c:

"sometimes things get modified or put on hold." - Even if it was in chrono-order things get put on hold so i would just say no

AriafluxApr 10, 20154 votes

Yeah, I guess that was a dumb question. I was just excited to see Ashe rework being right behind Ryze >.<

Now that I look at it, it seems to be in alphabetical order, except it's split into 3 sections:

Ryze

Ashe Gangplank Poppy Taric Urgot

Fiora Shen Yorick

Am I overthinking this?

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 20159 votes

We really cant give timelines for most of them, but as you are interested in Ashe I can say that it is one of the closest to done.

AriafluxApr 10, 20155 votes

Thank you! :D

#HYPED

warpenguin555Apr 10, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Things that we are currently working on:

-Ryze (duh) -Ashe (small scope) -Gangplank -Poppy -Taric -Urgot -Fiora -Shen -Yorick (just started, so a ways off)

This doesn't mean 100% expect to see these in the next year, sometimes things get modified or put on hold. Not every one of these projects is like Sion in size and scope as well, the update is meant to fit the needs of the champ. Also, don't have a lot of details to share on the specifics of these, but info will come in time.

Hope that answers your question.

what scale changes are you planning for with shen. Please keep him pretty much the same hes one of my favorites

Chaotic ReksApr 10, 20153 votes

^this

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 201514 votes

Shen is definitely not a full reboot like sion. There are some core abilities and things that he does that are really unique and we want to support:

-Split push join team with ult, awesome and unique for team strategies

-Ninja tank! Even though this isn't the first thing you think of when you look at a martial fighter like shen, it allows him to differentiate himself in both how he is durable (possibly more dodging/blocking than pure meatshield) and how he targets and disables his opponents.

-Shadow dash is a pretty cool high moment, want to build up and around this rather than scrap.

Some of the things that we think can be improved:

-His laning and play pattern can be made more interesting and interactive for both shen and his opponent. We know that we can do better with top lane gameplay than marking your enemy and trading autos with them. His current pattern leads to a "stat check" win loss condition more than we would like.

-Overall we can deliver a more clear and satisfying kit for him that focuses his power into more discrete moments that fit shen's character

This is just my very rough thoughts, but hopefully it makes sense and doesn't seem totally off base.

ShadyWolfeApr 10, 20153 votes

I'm so happy to hear Shen is getting his rework he is one of my favorite tops. Any plans for a VU for him anytime soon and is ZenontheStoic still working on Warwick's rework or did his idea get scrapped?

RiotMeddlerApr 10, 20156 votes

ZenontheStoic's working on a new champion at present. We'll definitely draw on the rework he was working on whenever we go back to do work on Warwick though.

ItemsGuyApr 10, 20157 votes

If this is the speed at which these updates are moving, how long do you think it will be until every champion reaches parity? In terms of visuals, gameplay, etc. (even just mentioning those, champs like Nunu, Morde, Corki, Evelynn, Xin, Panth, etc. kind of blush in embarrassment at 2015's standards, yet they probably won't see this list for quite some time), there are a lot of champions that are left wanting, and the bar is constantly raised as technology improves and as the design team learns more and more from their previous successes and failures.

There was a Red comment earlier, mentioning that, while new champions/skins/events get login screens and accompanying musical themes, older ones will probably get such treatment unless they get a rework on the level of Sion, Poppy, or Taric--so that leaves the question of, is 50%+ of the roster going to get left in the dust? That's the same feeling I have with these reworks. Except in the case of these reworks, they aren't simply a luxury, but something that's needed to preserve the lifespan of League of Legends as a competitive game.

But then that brings up the question, of how many champions are going to get left in the dust? How many will look or feel outdated and unloved? If this was a game with no competitors and an infinite lifespan, I'd personally love to see everything improve and grow gradually over time, but the reality of the constant influx of competing MOBAs (even now, Heroes of the Storm and Gigantic are on the horizon--with one offering gameplay experiences with already beloved characters, and the other offering a faster-paced and more condensed MOBA experience) and of the limited life span of competitive games should be taken into account.

I really hope that League ends up like DotA and that you guys have all the time in the world to learn from the past and improve upon it for decades, but I can also recognize that League isn't DotA, even in terms of raw circumstance (a WC3 mod with 0 competitors that spawned a massive competitive following, vs. a spiritual successor in an age of a new and rapidly expanding genre that takes a much more micromanaged and hands-on approach to the competitive scene). I'm excited for all these reworks because I like the idea of a roster full of champions that are both fun and worthwhile, but I hope you can understand why I'm a bit worried, and why I hope you are a bit worried!

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 201510 votes

This is a good question and there is a lot going on here. In theory we will never reach the day where we can say "OK we're done updating champions!" Every time we learn and improve our craft the bar gets raised so even after we have done a pass on every champion in the game we will look back and see ways to improve the ones we did early on.

Increasing the rate of releases is always something we want to keep pushing for but we are focused on delivering good quality first and foremost. A great update can last forever even if it took a little longer to make.

As far as champions left in the dust, we don't have this mindset at all. All of those champs listed (nunu, morde etc) are ones that we want to improve on too.

Linna ExcelApr 10, 20152 votes

In theory we will never reach the day where we can say "OK we're done updating champions!"

I remember a Lucas quote about you never really finish what you are working on, you just learn to get it to the point you can live with it. Is that partly what you are hinting at? You can live with a change now and as you learn more and get to the right point, you go back again?

Also as a question to one of your other responses, what's the biggest difference between the live balance team tweaking a champ like Veigar and what the update team does?

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 20155 votes

That's actually very true (the lucas quote). We would say something like "after the update, Sion is good enough for a while" but he is really never perfect.

The live balance team tweaks champs for both balance (number tuning patch to patch) and solving relatively small or urgent gameplay problems. We get to take a full top to bottom look at an older champion and build them from the ground up. In the end it's mostly a matter of time and scope, they work on something for a few weeks and we work on something for a few months.

ItemsGuyApr 11, 20152 votes

Oh, I have no doubt that you guys at least intend to dish out the love to all the champs that need it, and I'm sure any game designer/artist/craftsman can sympathize with never being able to look back and say you're done (and I hope you guys never do, even if League lasts 30+ years and every champion lives to see a full relaunch with flashy visuals and music and all that jazz)--and like you said, one of the big keystones of improvement here is that production rate. As you guys grow with experience and as your tech improves and more effective methods of testing and implementation are found, something that took as long as Sion may take as long as Annie. Now, this might be a good decade from now, but times are quick to change and almost always carry surprises!

I'm looking forward to watching you guys work and improve. If anything, it helps me remember that I have a lot of work and improvement to do in my future, as well. : )

Jeddy017Apr 10, 20152 votes

If I may ask,does this list include gameplay &/or visual updates?

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 20156 votes

Gameplay and some visual in all of the above. Varying sizes.

Sigma117Apr 10, 20156 votes

So Veigar is done and no longer being worked on past number tweaks? I would love to see him get an actual rework and not the band-aid solution of a skillshot Q and delayed E.

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 10, 20158 votes

Veigar was never a champion update project. I know that the live balance team that did his original changes are going to continue to make sure that he gets to a viable and fun state.

Definitely he could probably use some bigger updates in the future, but he's not currently on our plate.

ThryaleApr 10, 20152 votes

So wait, you guys said you weren't don't with him and that you'd been keeping a close eye on him and continue updating him. The forums go mad with their frustrations of the current veigar, and now you guys have the gall to say you aren't going to continue working on him for the foreseeable future? Seriously?

The veigar community has been crying out to you for months about veigar's current state, but no action has been taken outside of number buffs. Yet when you make proposed changes to lee sin, you instantly adjust plans due to community outcry. Why the favoritism riot? Even the Cass community is split on her "rework" and all she's been given were number tweaks.

We don't want our champs "OP" we want them to be enjoyable and reliable. Technically speaking, new veigar is "stronger" than old veigar. But he is so unreliable atm that the new power is not really worth the effort.

Veigar's kit needs to be addressed. His W is worthless without his stun, and his stun can no longer be relied upon. Veig's ult barely does more dmg than his W now (unless used agianst an ap champ, but even then it's only an extra 200-300 dmg on average) Veig, known for being extremely vulnerable in lane, is now even more so due to being unable to reactively stun ppl ganking him, and now his Q pushes his lane, causing him to need a reliable escape mechanic now more than ever. Not to mention, the whole "double stacks" thing is bull and you know it. There are only so many minions in a wave, and good veigars could kill 5-6 minions per wave by lvl 9 anyway. Keeping his Q unit targeted and reducing the mana cost by 20 would've had pretty much the same result without the costly wave shoving. (you want to shove your wave? drop a W)

His kit is a mess and none of his abilities complement each other anymore. We don't want more number changes. We want his kit to be cohesive again. Please, don't forget about veigar, don't drop him into the box of "fixed" champs for months like you did with cass, evelynn, and olaf.

ULTRAF0RCEApr 10, 20154 votes

this guy works for champ update your conflict is with the live balance team you are complaining to the wrong person so you look like an imbecile.

ThryaleApr 10, 20152 votes

the only imbeciles are those that never let their voices be heard. I know how riot works, if a legitimate complaint is brought up, but to someone in the wrong department, that guy knows where to go so that it does get seen by the right guys.

Also, just because he doesn't work on live balance doesn't mean he can't weigh in and give his thoughts, nor does it mean he is forbidden from starting conversations with the live balance team regarding something a sub-community in league has an issue with.

I'd rather talk to the wrong guy at riot all day rather than not talk to anyone at all.

ULTRAF0RCEApr 10, 20153 votes

Sorry, your wording implied that you were upset with that specific rioter who did not destroy your precious evil yordle. if I miss interpreted that I apologize.