why riven didnt never get any ammo

Knight SoIaire ··3 votes·597 views

well lets face it, numbers arent enough to ballance her

she had nerfed ratios, base damages, shield time etc, and this has only 2 outcomes either she is crap or she is insanely opressive, much depends on the matchup she is currently in but nerfs just change how she handless some of her matchups, if she gets placed in a bad one she doesnt realy get to do much besides avoiding any fight, if she gets a good one the late game will be tough

i personaly think that giving some kind of recharging ammo on any of her skills would be rather helpfull in ballancing her since ammo would limit her owerall competition into fights owerall (she can sit a specific time onto the fight, then she needs to stop and wait, thats what i mean, the downties that would allow her kit to retain the opressiveness it naturaly has while still having a weakness), it would actualy promote the counterplay of setting her on a cooldown and i think thats a fair counterplay for her

right now her cooldowns arent realy exploitable since no sane player will just throw everything out, they can hold onto their e and w since q negates any instant counteratack, and late game her cooldowns are realy short (30 seconds on ult was it ?) while its not that she is purely a late game oreinted champion, in late game she still has weaknesses and strenghts

thats why i think she needs the attention of ballance team, she is realy fun and provides loads of unique mechanics (not aimable wall jump, execute.nuke skill, cooldown/auto management on realy big level)but at the same time she is just a pile of good stuff mixed with a bigger pile of problems

14 Comments

Elite4Runner2 votes

I love the fact that riven doesn't have any sort of mana/energy/ammo system, but I will agree that it makes her a little broken with her current ratios. I don't think the solution is to add a resource though. The thing that makes Riven so strong is that by focusing all of your gold income on attack damage, she gets stronger with all of her abilities. There is actually a pretty obvious way to balance her, have at least one of her abilities scale on some other stat; %health, attack speed, armor, magic resist, hell ... why not AP? I think her W or E would be great candidates for this change. Neither of them are direct attacks and instead seem more like defensive abilities.

I do have another idea, which I don't like as much. It is actually a lot like your ammo system. It would be a lot like Shyvana's resource. She generates charges slowly over time, however auto attacks increase her charges. Riven relies on her passive to grant additional damage to her auto attacks. By requiring a certain amount of time and/or auto attacks to be able to cast her abilities it would decrease her ability to spam. As I said, I don't like this option as much because I feel that one of the greater features of Riven's kit is her increased mobility. The first option wouldn't take away from this at all.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

the thing with scalings is tied very tightly to design

what is supposed to be your main skill is tied to your main scaling source for riven its basicaly an entire kit focused in one direction, thus she scales only of one stat also tying one of the abilities to other stat doesnt seem to change much in my opinion, riven still will get opressive if she gets a good early and she still will be lackluster if she fails it, your solution is basicaly ballancing her with numbers, the past proven it to not work

i think your concerns about the fury resource are fair, thats why i think ammo is better since it doesnt realy impair her capability to cast skills often, it just gives her a reasonable downtime during which she is vulnerable, so she wont go in with her combo and go out while still having acces to all of her power and well she is an all offense champion, realy tied to a playstyle of eitehr i destroy you or die in the process, i dont want to hurt her opressive playstyle, i want to create a downside for it, that will allow enemies to stop a snowballing riven, and will allow riot to make her less matchup dependant

Hasztalan22 votes

She needs mana. Story over.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

your point is invalid because it lacks any feedback show us some pros and conns of giving her mana, explain why that will be a good thing for her ballance and wont destroy her identity/niche

Hasztalan21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9sMFuJK6,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-04-03T09:47:37.429+0000)

your point is invalid because it lacks any feedback show us some pros and conns of giving her mana, explain why that will be a good thing for her ballance and wont destroy her identity/niche

I'm tired of explaining it in the all teh daily 9328947238934798479 nerf riven threads. Look it up or wait until riot actually gives a fuck to fix her.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Did never

Didn't ever

Chose one

IcyPepper1 votes

But... she fights with a sword.

If anything, her insanely low cd's could be gated by giving her mana. Yes, mana. If she QQQ E W you at level three constantly, she should go oom eventually.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

i dont agree with the mana her kit is made around rather intensive and prolonged use of every skill the problem that i see with it is hat she doesnt get to run out (the same problem you see) but giving her mana kills one of the primary uses of her kit, i think it would be more destructive than ballancing

while an ammo system of sorts means her kit can still be allowed to be complete and opressive, but offers a drawback for that, you can spamm abilities preety often but the number of casts per fight is limited, if you waste your skills you lose all of your power

i just find it a good option solely becuase it allows riven to still retain her power and characteristics while having that added weakness to ballance around

IcyPepper1 votes

So energy?

It makes zero sense for a swordsman to use ammo. Maybe for an adc, but definitely not a sword fighter.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

It makes zero sense for a swordsman to use ammo

then lest call it rune charges name is not important, i just mean ammo as a mechanic

IcyPepper1 votes

That's not actually a bad idea.

And maybe when she ults, her stance allows her to forgo rune charges (but still must respect cooldowns) since her sword is fully charged?

Elite4Runner1 votes

It's actually not hard for Riot to change ratios or what stat scales for abilities all together. They have done it before. I think changing the scaling stat changes a lot. Riven's Q should scale off of AD, that just makes sense. Her W seems to be more like magic in my opinion so I honestly think that it should scale off of AP, or maybe severely nerf the AD and add an AP scale. Then there is her E, ... This is actually where I think Riven is broken. It doesn't make sense to me that a defensive ability would scale on an offensive stat. Make this scale off of her total or bonus hp, armor, or magic resist. This could make tank Riven interesting. Her ult, .. honestly, it's an ult, .. I think it's fine the way it is. If they do end up adding another stat for her to scale on, maybe give her ult some of this scaling in order to make her more viable by focusing on this stat.

As for the Fury idea, I'd give her the 100% fury pool, just like Shyvana, but she has access to it from level 1 and it would build faster on average than Shyvana's. This would also encourage players to build attack speed instead of straight attack damage. There aren't a lot of items that grant a large amount of both stats. Her abilities would still have an independent cooldown, but they would each also require a certain percent of Fury to cast. This would make it possible for Riven to still have the opening burst play style that she currently has, but it's on a limit. Eventually she will need to disengage to recharge.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

well those are 2 diferent stances on the same problem aiming to solve it through the similar change

i consider rivens explosiveness being a part of her kits design, she is made around offense only and everything she does is packed into offense, this means that she is only effective when her offense breaks whateve you might do to stop her, and if she doesnt do it she fails

thats why i dont think changing any numbers wont sufice, so i cling to gating the amount she can use her kit, and the most fitting way would be to allow her to have a limited use of casts in a specific window of time

your idea and mine seem to aim for that, and are insanely similar (mine is relevant only to time, your is giving her bonuses for fighting), so i hope your thread will acomplish something, good luck, have fun

Elite4Runner1 votes

Actually, .. I'm kinda liking my idea so much I'm going to make my own thread about it, see if I can get some more attention.

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