Can we just reduce Doran's shield cost by 50

Malicious Metal·Dec 22, 2016·248 votes·5,139 views

So that we can get an extra HP pot to survive those heavy poke lanes.

87 Comments

WoonStruckDec 22, 201637 votes

This.

The main reason I never take D-Shield is because literally any start gives you much more EHP via potions, stats, as well as many of them building into something else.

Even item 1028 is a better start than D-Shield.

SzGamer227Dec 22, 20164 votes

I wouldn't take Ruby Crystal over DS unless you are expecting to back 2.5 minutes into trading. See my post below if you care for the maths.

WoonStruckDec 22, 20164 votes

Ruby isn't a good start, but its still better than D-Shield.

You should basically never take D-shield unless you're vs Vlad and plan on getting an early Hexdrinker or Cowl.

Vlad's about the only champion whose damage doesn't significantly outscale D-Shield almost immediately. He has to be extremely aggressive with autos (which are some of the weakest in the game, thus hit hardest by D-Shield, fyi) to do anything significant to your health. You're basically immune to him after you grab an MR item with it.

Any other case? Don't buy D-shield.

SzGamer227Dec 22, 201612 votes

Doran Shield's passive health regen gives you more effective health in lane than Ruby Crystal and its extra Health pot as long as you are able to stay in lane long enough to utilize it. Long story short, Doran's Shield is a free Health pot in health regeneration every 2 minutes, and unless you're picking Darius into Jayce you can expect to stay in lane long enough to take advantage of that free health.

Honestly the only reason people think Doran's Shield is a bad item is because its passive is so niche. If it gave you flat health instead of a crummy passive component it would be the better choice for effective health in lane a majority of the time.

TeCoolMageDec 22, 20161 votes

Something to keep in mind is that health regeneration isn't stored like flat HP or potions in your inventory. The only time the health regen gives you effective health is when you're below max, so it either encourages being very aggressive or only works in a lane where the enemy is aggressive. A passive-passive bro lane will never have Doran's shield be good (except maybe with jg ganks constantly?) and an aggressive vs aggressive lane tends to favor other options like Doran's blade or corrupting.

SzGamer227Dec 22, 20162 votes

Being poked and trading with your lane opponent are two different things. You don't have to be very aggressive to take damage from your lane opponent, and if you end up on the wrong side of a trade, you won't have the problem of being full health and missing health regen for a while. You make it sound like health regen only works when you are low on health, but being low on health and not being max health are not the same thing, and you only have to be just below max health for health regen to work.

Doran's Shield is for aggressive vs passive lanes; it's the best option that a passive laner has to maximize effective HP against an aggressive poke lane. Think about matchups like an immobile juggernaut versus a lane opponent with ranged poke. The juggernaut just needs to hold out and pick up cs until their lane opponent makes a mistake that they can capitalize on, but will hardly be at max health for very long because of their lane opponent's ranged attacks and spells. I main Darius, and I never take anything but Doran's Shield against champions like Gnar or Teemo; I won't be trading often, but I'll be under max health at all times so I can make the most of DS's health regen.

TeCoolMageDec 23, 20161 votes

That's what I was saying. (Assuming auto attack based champions like Darius vs Gnar and not AP) Doran's shield is useless in bro lanes and is beaten by Doran's blade when both do heavy auto based damage to each other, which makes it better in lanes where one side is more aggressive than the other (either you play aggressive and tank minion wave damage a lot, or they play aggressive and you spend a lot more time below max)

Skins ProjectDec 24, 20161 votes

Nasus

LankPantsDec 22, 20165 votes

One thing you're forgeting about is the opportunity cost of D-shield. When you buy a Ruby you are 400 gold into your next item. This means you can afford to back early. You want to back around 800 gold with a Ruby for Bramby+2 pots. That same back would be 1200 if you started with D-shield.

GayFluffyUnicornDec 23, 20161 votes

What use is dorans for me as nautilus or maokai? To farm decent in a lane against darius, jayce, kennen i will use my abilities and run oom very fast. So the only option i have is corrupting. Which will force me to farm longer (same as with shield) but i can atleast keep corrupting into the midgame so good is it. Shield is really less than a mediocree item for most toplaners. I'd rather even go seal+ pots than shield.

General Esdeath Dec 22, 201619 votes

item 1054 80 HP item 1028 150 HP

Guess which one costs more :^)

SzGamer227Dec 22, 201616 votes

item 1028 item 2003 = 150 max health + 300 healing = 450 effective HP item 1054 = 80 max health + 150 healing + 6 healing/5 seconds = 230 + 72/min EHP

Math it out and Doran's Shield passes Ruby Crystal in terms of extra health in lane after 3 minutes of health regen, and that is not including the damage blocked from its passive which provides the equivalent of 8 health every time you are hit by a basic attack, not only from your lane opponent but also from minions as well.

The advantage of taking the Ruby Crystal is that you build it into something else and thus you have 220 extra gold over Doran's, but unless you are forced to back 2.5 minutes into trading the Doran's Shield pulls more weight.

General Esdeath Dec 22, 20163 votes

Except item 1055 gives as much health and lifesteal, which is better for AD champs because the shield is running on 1.2 HP per second. With lifesteal you can get 2 HP per second if you constantly auto attack. The passive of shield is so bad against champs with any aoe damage, such as Akali Annie Illaoi Ekko Darius Gnar Yasuo if he uses EQ, etc. It's supposed to encourage you to trade but by doing that you're constantly losing more HP than you regen.

OyddAWqJ5rDec 22, 20163 votes

Basic attacking that frequently means that you're pushing your lane--which, as a passive laner, is definitely not what you want to be doing. Top it off with the fact that D. Shield healing is active 100% of the time without having to get into poke range and you got yourself the better choice for passive laners especially ones that don't need the AD.

The OasisDec 23, 20161 votes

Chances are that if you're considering a shield you don't have the lane presence to trade or sit there constantly auto attacking.

General Esdeath Dec 23, 20161 votes

If someone comes up to auto you, at least auto back and kite while you run. They have to run past your minions, which do a lot early game.

DessemDec 22, 20162 votes

its passive which provides the equivalent of 8 health every time you are hit by a basic attack

The damage reduction is calculated before armor and percentage damage reduction benefits are taken into account.

source!

This means that Vladimir, who basic attacks for 52 damage at level 1 or uses Q for 75 damage (Let's say +5 from 12 AP).

Doran's Shield reduces that to 44 damage, respectively 72 damage.

Let's say your resistances are a clean 25% each. (Not entirely accurate, but increased a bit for ease of maths.)

44 x 0.75 = 33 damage is what you receive. 72 x 0.75 = 54 damage is what you receive.

WITHOUT Doran's Shield, you'd take

52 x 0.75 = 39 damage 80 x 0.75 = 60 damage

Effectively, Doran's Shield's only reduced the damage by 6, not 8, because it applies before armour reduction takes place.

The more you know.

TusutakiDec 23, 20161 votes

Dorans Shield does not pull more weight for the simple fact of that Shield would have to regen over 2 minutes straight to make up for the potion where in that 2 minutes the enemy laner has control over the lane putting you at a disadvantage and thats even assuming the fact that you wont be taking in any more harass during those two minutes.

And as you already mentioned, you already invested 400 gold into hitting your power spike and since time is the essence, there's a major difference between getting sunfire in 10min than in 14min.

Also, Shield doesnt block 8 damage as advertise and it also doesnt block minion damage either. It blocks damage before resistances is applied rather than after. Meaning it will always block less than 8 and the value will continue to lessen the more you gain resistances. It also doesnt help that it only applies to autos and targeted spells when majority of damage sources would be from AOE.

kasfasDec 22, 20167 votes

Barely buy the thing because of how cost inefficient it is. Corrupting potion is much better on most tanks since it gives mana as well as health, d blade is better on most mana less fighters because life's real scales better and they tend to auto a lot. There are only a few champions who make use of d shield, and sadly its resource less ap champions like Kat, Vlad and rumble.

They should change the flat regen into a % of base regen to prevent abuse cases like these but allow it to be useful on the class it's meant for. (Sorry that morde's regen is so low, he's really a mess of a champion)

Instead of 6 flat regen/5 it should be changed to +80% of base regen per 5 instead. Which approximately gives more power to the champions who want it while removing it from the ones who shouldn't get it

TusutakiDec 23, 20165 votes

I feel kinda insulted that this has gotten more attention than my thread actually detailing how Shield needs a buff. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ggUgT8IZ-dorans-shield-is-in-drastic-need-of-an-buff-or-rework

I'll just post it my op as a quote

I'll put my main points in sections for ease of read as to why Shield is objectionably the worst item of the Doran set and has been for the past few seasons. Im only comparing Doran's set because listing out why practically using any other starting sets over Shield are better will make the post way too long. Trying to keep it short and sweet as possible.

Shield Cost and gold efficient: As it currently stands, Shield costs 450 gold while only being is 95.41% gold efficient, without its unique passive. To put it in contrast, Blade is 134.63% gold efficient and Ring is is 184.06% gold efficient even without its passive mana restore on kill. While at the same time, Ring is also the cheapest of the three allowing you to buy two health pots instead of one. In a numbers perspective, Shield is 38.92% less efficient than Blade and 88.65% less efficient than Ring. For a clearer perspective..

Doran's Ring = 736 gold value Doran's Blade = 605 Doran's Shield = 429

With pots included Ring + 2 = 836 Blade + 1 = 655 Shield + 1 = 479

Block Passive Not only Shield provides the worst stats in gold value and but it does not even truly block 8 damage as advertised as it blocks damage before resistances is calculated rather than after. Meaning the actual damage blocked will always be less than 8. It is also the only item in the game that gains less value from it's block passive the more resistances you gain throughout the game. On top of that, the block passive is not only unique but it is also so restrictive that the majority of the time it won't see use as area of effect damage is the primary source of damage.

HP Regen The heath regeneration also discourages from buying shield because of it's flat 6hp regen per 5 seconds (1.2hp per second) and the worst part of it is that it doesnt scale. I say this because over 95% of the champion roster's health regen exceeds 6 at level 3 meaning that you will gain more value from just buying two rejuvenation beads in addition to having three health pots. To further my case, 98 out of 134 (73%) champs has or exceeds Shield's regen passive at level 1.

Even making Shield cheaper allowing 2 pots will still not make it a worth while item in any form.

SzGamer227Dec 22, 20164 votes

For the record, I do think the Doran's Shield is weak, but I don't think it's useless. On one hand, if its crummy passive were replaced with increases to its base stats, it would be in a much better place than it is, but it is still a good pick in poke lanes because of it's health regen, and you definitely shouldn't be taking Ruby Crystal instead.

Doran's Shield's cost shouldn't be reduced; they just need to cannibalize its block passive and give people the stats they really want.

DunkinNoobsDec 22, 20163 votes

We want to give the passive sustain option even more sustain? No thank you. Dshield is niche, as it should be.

General Esdeath Dec 22, 201611 votes

"Niche"

Yeah, we heard that 3 seasons ago, still waiting for it to be useful.

DunkinNoobsDec 23, 20161 votes

You clearly didn't play 3 seasons ago. Remember Renekton vs. Shyvana top lane? or Mundo vs. Shyvana top lane. They all started Dshield and top lane was a nonstop farmfest.

General Esdeath Dec 23, 20161 votes

Notice 2 of those champs have self healing and one gets bonus armor/mr for ult.

DunkinNoobsDec 23, 20162 votes

What's your point? When Dshield is good, the top lane meta is cancer. It isn't exactly great for the bot lane meta either. It's better that Dshield isn't that good. And don't get me started on crystalline flask; it's removal is one of the best decision riot has ever made. Riot has slowly been removing passive laning options from the game, and it's made the game better. Sorry you have to actually interact with your lane opponent once in a while.

General Esdeath Dec 23, 20161 votes

Except DShield is meant for you to take abuse and trade and heal up. Except the healing is weaker than a rejuv bead. Riot needs to learn that the solution to "This is too strong" is not always "Trash it"

DunkinNoobsDec 23, 20161 votes

That's what it does. Do you even play champs that use Dshield? Because I do. It works just fine. Garen DrMundo

General Esdeath Dec 23, 20161 votes

Working fine as in? It's nowhere near as good as the other 2 starter items. Can it work? Anything can work. Except item 3056

DunkinNoobsDec 23, 20161 votes

It's situational, as it's supposed to be. I start it on Mundo and Garen most games in a higher elo that you've ever been. It's fine. Hell, I just outfarmed a Kennen as Garen starting Dshield.

RavoreDec 23, 20161 votes

Plat? Are you bragging about that?

50Shades0fTryndaDec 22, 20163 votes

good idea...its one of the least used starting items ...it would also be logical to remake it to be as a counterpart of dorans ring, to restore HP on minion kill as ring does for mana

Karthus

Loon op ZandDec 23, 20161 votes

I think the restoring HP is a bit too much.

Inuyasha99999Dec 23, 20162 votes

trundle has it why not??? thats just minions dying AROUND him OMG A REWARD THATS SITUATIONAL AND REWARDS PROPER LAST HITTING AND PLAYING DEFENCE...

101100111000Dec 23, 20161 votes

There's a big difference between a champion having something and an item having something.

A champion having a specific ability means it can be balanced strictly around the champion, and how good it is on said champion.

An item with a specific ability has to be balanced for the entire roster to use.

While I'm not going to argue whether or not a Doran's Ring that restores health instead of mana is just redundant (I mean Doran's Blade), but you can't say champion abilities would be good ideas as items.

Inuyasha99999Dec 23, 20161 votes

rammus and annie question your logic with thornmail..

101100111000Dec 24, 20161 votes

Is that seriously your counter-argument? It doesn't argue anything. There are SO MANY champion abilities that aren't items, and vice versa, that I don't see the point of pretending "Rammud x Thornmail" validates your logic of having new items just because a champion has that ability.

Inuyasha99999Dec 25, 20161 votes

no you just wanted to make a point of how different having the effect on a champ vs item is when there are many cases of it already being done. this isnt outside their realm of change and youre being stubborn for whatever reason as a jungler most likely anybody outside the toplane wouldnt understand the argument unless you do the offmeta safe dorans shield adc start

CresmontDec 22, 20162 votes

hmmm as a top lane main, i think this still would keep it shit i mean, thye buffed tabi to block up to 12 percent autoattack dmg but dshield stops like, what 2-3 dmg? tahts horse shit. Now, i know the big problem is that if it is too cost efficient it would be op for how cheap it is, but giving it some extra health and letting the passive actually be useful would be nice. especially since the fucking 150 hp crystal that costs less is still more gold efficient than this piece of shit item 1054

SzGamer227Dec 22, 20162 votes

DS blocks 8 damage ~~from every attack (champion and minion)~~ which simply adds up to free health against ranged poke lanes. Then there's the added health regen it gives you which also gives you more effective health in lane as long as you stick around long enough to use it.

Short version is that DS is a better starter item than Ruby Crystal unless you expect to back 2.5 minutes into trading. You can see my post above if you're interested in the maths.

Tis a nice dayDec 22, 20163 votes

Doesn't block damage from minions anymore. Only from champion attacks and targeted abilities. source: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Doran's_Shield

SzGamer227Dec 22, 20161 votes

Huh. Well that's unfortunate.

Still, I'd definitely take DS over Ruby Crystal. The health regen is very valuable (it's the equivalent of a Health Pot every 2 minutes as long as you stay below max health, which is very easy to do in poke lanes) and the passive doesn't hurt even if it is crummy.

Arsenic SulfurDec 23, 20161 votes

Only problem: Ruby puts you closer to your powerspike than your laner assuming they didn't start something like Sword+3. Being forced back sooner actually helps here because assuming they continue pushing/farming you can come in with your now completed item 3044 , ready to kill.

Even if you both go back at around hte same time they'll come in with a item 3751 while you have + item 1001 / item 1029 . The fact that it can actually become something else kinda makes DS hard to pick over Ruby.

But hey, whatever floats ya boat.

Asayake 5150glowDec 22, 20163 votes

{quoted}

hmmm as a top lane main, i think this still would keep it shit i mean, thye buffed tabi to block up to 12 percent autoattack dmg but dshield stops like, what 2-3 dmg? tahts horse shit. Now, i know the big problem is that if it is too cost efficient it would be op for how cheap it is, but giving it some extra health and letting the passive actually be useful would be nice. especially since the fucking 150 hp crystal that costs less is still more gold efficient than this piece of shit

...It stops 8 damage.