The problem with the new Mana Font (Chalice passive): You need high mana for it to work properly

darkdill·Dec 13, 2014·15 votes·1,752 views

The fact that it restores a percentage of your missing mana every 5 seconds is, essentially, where I feel the problem is at. Unless you have 2k or more mana, that's not a lot of mana regen you're getting when you're low. Most mages who get Chalice don't also get Archangel's Staff, and thus the Chalice effect basically fizzles out on them.

I can't tell you how many times I was burned out of mana as Sona, Janna, or Lux in my last few games as them, even with a Grail. Back in S4, there was no such issue, but now it's a HUGE painintheass.

Riot, please tell us this isn't intentional.

20 Comments

WheatloafDec 13, 201419 votes

They wanted it to stop being the end-all "I no longer need to care about mana" purchase. They certainly succeeded, though I'm not sure whether it's quite where it needs to be yet.

darkdillDec 13, 20143 votes

I can understand that for Chalice, but for Grail and Mikael's too? That's too harsh.

FantasySniperDec 13, 20143 votes

Umm, Grail and Mikael's suffered from the same problem. It wasn't harsh, especially since they still provide substantial mana reserves.

It was done completely on purpose.

JunkοDec 13, 20141 votes

Athene also gives % mana back on kill, plus the mastery that gives % hp and mana back on kill, it was the thing that actually generated "I no longer need to care about mana" problem

HawkefireDec 13, 20144 votes

{quoted} The fact that it restores a percentage of your missing mana every 5 seconds is, essentially, where I feel the problem is at. Unless you have 2k or more mana, that's not a lot of mana regen you're getting when you're low. Most mages who get Chalice don't also get Archangel's Staff, and thus the Chalice effect basically fizzles out on them.

I can't tell you how many times I was burned out of mana as Sona, Janna, or Lux in my last few games as them, even with a Grail. Back in S4, there was no such issue, but now it's a HUGE painintheass.

Riot, please tell us this isn't intentional.

Perhaps you should learn how to manage your mana instead of just mindlessly spamming spells then?

Tis a nice dayDec 13, 20142 votes

Whenever I hear complaints about not having enough mana, I remember my old Dota days where most heroes would go oomph with two spell casts and nobody complained.

JunkοDec 13, 20141 votes

Actually most Dota heroes still do lol. I tried playing Invoker the other day, you Invoke a spell, and use it, and you are OOM

JustMyBassCannonDec 13, 20142 votes

Umm, it was entirely intentional.

I say this as a person who mained mid-lane mages, buying Chalice into Grail as my first item for a long time. Chalice was too good at regenerating mana. The base 7 regen was often almost +100% of your own base, and then you would get up to double your total regen, depending on your missing mana. It was not abnormal to have over 20 MP5 at around 90-100% mana with no other MP5 boosts. It wasn't uncommon for me to always be able to at least cast my basic harass spell whenever it was off cooldown, or use a single mana potion to go from 10% to 70% (mana potions count as mana regen, thus benefit from Chalice).

Now, Chalice helps more than other equivalent options (such as Forbidden Idol), but not so much that it's like buying Blue Buff.

ofartDec 13, 20142 votes

It was their intention to tune down Chalice's power until you get levels or buy additional mana items. I understand that but the sad thing is, it's STILL a crappy version of the old Chalice even if you actually do those things. It's so unimpressive that Bjergsen went for 2 Morellonomicons rather than an Athene's. :D

DurfainDec 14, 20142 votes

I feel they should bump up the % regen to 75 on both chalice and grail and up the MR on grail back to where it was prenerf - around 40.

TalamareDec 13, 20141 votes

I feel like the only person who needs % mana regen with a large mana pool is...

Swain

and maybe Kassadin

LongFur FoxDec 13, 20143 votes

Anivia too...

WolfBVDec 13, 20141 votes

It was fun, playing anivia with an athenes, 2 or 3 seraphs, a liandrys, and sorc shoes and just having ult up all the time.

LongFur FoxDec 13, 20141 votes

Was? The mana regen is better now than before so she can still do this.

As a general idea i quite like a niche item for champions which need a lot of mana and mana regen even if there are only a few of them.

SammystormDec 13, 20141 votes

but it isn't very good on her anymore. When you need the mana you don't have a large enough pool to make a difference and the price hike makes it so you might as well buy catalyst or idol.

JunkοDec 13, 20141 votes

Or you know you buy a Tear like Anivia usually does.

SammystormDec 13, 20142 votes

depends on how you play anivia. I also think tear is bad on her. It makes her mid game substantially weaker which is arguable the best part of the game for her if you rush RoA.

JunkοDec 13, 20141 votes

Buy Chalice and Tear on Veigar.

Enjoy infinite mana

SammystormDec 13, 20141 votes

don't buy grail buy morellonomicon.

KingsgraveDec 14, 20141 votes

Id like to see both Grail and Athene's give more MR and nothing else change about them. They should be the "Im losing lane and need help against Mages" item as a Mage, not "I buy this all the time no matter what"

I remember Ziggs would rush this item even against an AD character because it was pretty much mandatory. Thats just bad item design.