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Before everyone starts flipping out over whats "OP"

Terff··10 votes·1,707 views

Maybe you should realize that counterpicks exist for a reason. If something is popular you probably have a 25-30% chance of seeing it in gameplay. Those chances are pretty high and are probably worth counterpicking for.

This game has a cyclical meta where champions rise in favor in response to other champions that were previously favorable. A few months ago I admit I only saw 1 or 2 zeds, most didn't do well at all, not many people complained about zed and he was no different than he was now. Now everyone flips out when they lose to a zed and claim he's "broken". But I predict that in a few months, if zed doesn't get nerfed to oblivion everyone will probably be complaining about kayle and malzahar again (yall are aready starting to complain about lissandra).

I'm not saying that some champion kits are broken, they are but it doesn't mean that they wont fall out of favor again. So just either stop playing until things change or learn to counterpick popular champions.

And no, I'm not just defending all those OP champions that I play (because I don't play them). I just truly believe that they are not OP. I even just lost a game to an 30/10/16 akali, but I still don't think she's OP.

32 Comments

Taryn4 votes

But even when you have counterpicks you get nerfed. Sona

Spacesuit Spiff3 votes

We don't really have a cyclical meta, we get at most one recursion of the cycle (some people will counterpick Graves, but not enough that it's worth blind picking to counter the Graves counter, that's just part and parcel of a game that can be described as "any plan that absolutely requires all your opponents to be smart will instantly fail"). Then the new patch comes out, and we get our new meta and anti-meta for the month.

Occasionally, Riot does produce hideously broken things like 4.21 Warwick or that week where Ali top was bullying out everything else. Other times, you just end up with champs that are a little too overbearing, need a little too many resources to deal with properly, generate a little too much benefit for their risk. Ryze was like this for months; he bully you out of lane and scale into a lategame hypercarry. Champs like this are what bans exist for, even if that's not usually what they get used for. And yes, I will go on the record and say that because of the mana regen nerfs, Zed is in this state right now.

Also, to all those who dismiss the idea of counterpicking because they only want to use what they see in the LCS: if Fiora was ever picked in LCS, they wouldn't send the usual Liss/Mao/Rumble/Gnar against her, they would pick Pantheon and make her hate life. Because she's so easily countered (and in the case of Fiora specifically, just kinda strategically useless for LCS teams), she never gets picked, but if the LCS players refused to leave their 4 top laners to counter her, there would be no reason not to pick her (maybe one of the 4 toplaners does, I don't actually play her). So long story short, counters > what you see in the LCS this week. The most ridiculous example of this I saw was someone I knew picking Mao every single game and just passive farming LCS-style, which worked sometimes. Other times, he was picking into Akali/Swain/Fiora and the like that NEED to be punished early, and they freefarmed against him and dominated later.

Kledy McKledFace2 votes

so whos lissandra counterpick? nasus? she will e away and go push the 2 others land before nasus can get to his outer turret

Spookzie8 votes

Any champ with a low cd harass counters nasus.

Terff6 votes

Kassadin is the first that comes to mind

ChrisB54 votes

When Liss goes for her ice claw, cc her. She can't re-activate her spell when she's stunned. Prevent Nasus from farming, keeping his q down. Without stacks, he's still very much strong, but far from overpowered. And don't let a game last too long... There are several champions who can take down Nasus. Sion comes to mind. Riven. Garen. Teemo can go both ways.

BallisticMouse1 votes

http://www.lolcounter.com/champions/lissandra

ChrisB52 votes

So tell me how to counter Zed, despite his large range poke and assassin mana-less one click combo play style? I haven't found a strategy other than hope the Zed doesn't know what he's doing, or 2v1 him and pray. Is Kayle a good counter with her ult? I just think he should have someone who can counter him offensively rather than only defensively. Tell me if I'm not seeing something, I'm only Silver and know I have a lot to learn (I'm not afraid to admit that, it's the only reason I ever escaped Bronze). My strategy is wait for a gank and pray while never engaging and still somehow die despite tower hugging as he shadows away ; - ;

EDIT: Also Kayle is very powerful but she does have her setbacks. I don't see her ult as any more OP than Trynd's ult though, personally. Both champs can be outplayed, but I just can't find a way to outplay Zed, and I haven't been able to find any resources that explain how to. I'd love some though. Riot seems to think he's balanced and healthy.

EDIT2: Why would someone complain about Malz? His ult? His burst? He's squishy, and his ult is a channel that can be interrupted w/ cc.

Ashes Arise1 votes

Both lissandra and kayle are very hard counters to Zed.

ChrisB51 votes

How does Liss counter Zed? I can see Kayle because of her healing, ult, etc, but Liss? Or is it because with her ult and burst she takes him down? Every time I see Zed picked in mid I try to give up my lane, so I'm hoping I can find a way to prevent this.... I've never tried Liss before but she seems to be picking up interest. And I'm sure you can agree Liss has always been pretty strong (I've been meaning to learn her but atm Sion has my interest, who... wow he's a lot of fun).

iateurdoughnut1 votes

Stay behind minions and spam your q with liss. Use your e + w+ q combo whenever you can and if he ults you, ult him then e, q, w wtv. Liss beats zed pretty hard. I've experienced both sides of this matchup and its laughable as liss.

Ashes Arise1 votes

Basically, as Lissandra, your Q makes it incredibly difficult for him to farm. If you assert your dominance by pelting him with Qs through the minions, it zones him hard.

Your W is another amazing tool. If ults you or comes at you, you can just W him to the ground.

You can easily E as his ult animation starts and zip away when he appears.

You may also ult him or yourself when he ults.

Even if he does somehow get ahead, he can't tower dive you. If he tries, he won't be able to shadow out. Just W or R him and he is fckd.

Lissandra is an absolute monster against Zed. Her self preservation abilities also work to save allies from Zed.

Narasimha3 votes

As in counter picks?

Annie - Diana Kayle Lissandra Malzahar Viktor Gragas

Theres probably a few I missed, this is just top of my head.

Zed's balanced as an assassin because his entire burst relies on his ult, which is one of the most telegraphed moves in League, right next to Sion's Q. It literally gives you time to prepare and respond. Compare that to old Talon, who could silence and burst a target in less than a second, and you can tell the difference.

I Main Swain1 votes

Chogath isn't listed in most places but I consider it a hard counter

ChrisB51 votes

Hm, maybe I just need to practice a bit with more champs. I mean I'm lvl 30, own over 100champs, but I only excel with a few. Cait is my adc of choice, followed by Twitch or Sivir, Leo/Raka/Sona are my supports, Xer is my main pick mid with Vei following, I'm loving Sion/Gnar top, and jungles range from Cho/Udyr/Panth based on who we need. I don't really have much variety in mid though..

Thanks for the response man, I really appreciate it! I'll have to check some of these champs out. I've always had a LOT of fun with Malz, maybe I'll give him some more practice. Especially if you can hit your aoe and dot before you ult? My god you're standing there taking an immense amount of damage.

I Main Swain1 votes

my problem with zed is the same as my problem with leblanc. he is incredibly safe even when being ridiculously offensive because of an instant unstoppable teleport

Narasimha1 votes

As I have said multiple times (Hell, I JUST Said it!), and will likely say again in the future: Yes, Zed is indeed the 'lowest risk' assassin because he is the 'lowest reward' assassin. His entire burst relies on his ult, which is one of the most telegraphed moves in LoL. It literally gives the opponent time to set up counter measures. Compare that to Talon, who can still get his entire burst off in less than a second. Or Katarina, who can turn a kill into a penta. Or even Rengar, who can rip his target apart in 1.5 seconds and still run off laughing.

I Main Swain1 votes

i don't agree that he's the lowest reward assassin. while his burst relies heavily on his ult, that usually only if you want to kill them in 1 combo. zed can still very easily just poke someone down with his w until they are low enough to go in without ult, and lets not forget that his ult, while not having a crazy short cooldown, is relatively low AND it's a target lock ability. not saying it has no counterplay, i just don't like that he can easily assassinate someone and instantly be safe again. same with leblanc. those are the only aspects of those champs that i think need work (maaaaaaaaybe zed's execute auto dmg a little but idk).

as for talon and kat and rengar, they can deal that dmg that much faster because they don't have as reliable an escape as zed does. the argument could be made that kat does, but hers requires something to leap to and requires a kill/assist

Narasimha1 votes

as for talon and kat and rengar, they can deal that dmg that much faster because they don't have as reliable an escape as zed does. the argument could be made that kat does, but hers requires something to leap to and requires a kill/assist

And thats actually the crux of my argument. All such assassins have MUCH higher 'risk', so are allowed much higher 'reward'.

i just don't like that he can easily assassinate someone and instantly be safe again.

Bear in mind that is both his curse and his blessing as an assassin. Unless he is incredibly fed or Faker, his kill potential is limited to one, or MAYBE two people. He doesn't have the ability to reenter a fight at full potential while his ult is on cd, because his other skills simply can't make up for it. The only other assassin that really falls prey to this same thing is Talon, and everyone knows he's in a bad state.

As to Leblanc, she'll be taking a huge hit with the loss of DFG. Also, she tends to fall off incredibly hard late game because her ratios aren't that amazing, and any coordinated team can collapse on her the second she tries to go in.

magic pole5 votes

Swain i've found is very good vs zed. You have E harass if he goes to aa minions. Q + W I would save if he decides to go offensive, but landing the W can turn the fight. Cast Q before he ports and chase him down.

After lvl 6 , where zed gets his omfgwwtf burst ability, the matchup as swain becomes easier. Not only should you be building hourglass, but if he decides to ult you, pop R and W on yourself to LOL at zed.

ChrisB51 votes

I never thought of Swain but I do love the idea haha, esp with his ult. I've only played Swain in ARAM, never in norms, but he was always a LOT of fun. Maybe I'll give him a try or two. I don't see him often, but when I do, he's a bitch to kill. All the spellvamp.. he just does NOT die!

iateurdoughnut2 votes

If u wanna beat zed, try Mordekaiser cuz he kinda owns all assassins. Yasuo seems to go even with him and kinda beats him early game but my favorite counter to zed is Talon. Just e to him when he casts w and combo with q auto and w. Rinse and repeat. Works pretty well and when he ults you, use yours and stay invis till the end of its duration, e to him and cut his head off.

I Main Swain3 votes

I always pick Chogath into zed, this guy (is it guy, or it? idk) has a lot of tools at his disposal that are just so perfect against zed. Cho q is so easy to time with zed's ultimate, then follow it up with the w silence and suddenly zed's whole ultimate does nothing AND he might even be dead. Chogath can easily shrug off zed's annoying harass with his passive sustain, and naturally builds items that work well against zed (frozen heart has always been a must have on him, roa isn't persay an item you would think about as an anti assassin thing but the hp and the passive help a lot, and also zhonyas provides an awesome mix of stats plus that wonderful active). I'm telling you, Chogath

ChrisB51 votes

I could give that a try, Cho is my go-to for jungle if we could use the extra tank. Do you usually go with AP/HP items for his spikes, or just mostly tanky? Or does it vary?

Orangesilk1 votes

There's like a Zillion builds for Cho, since his kit has many things you may want to capitalize on:

-AP bruiser, with RoA, Rylais and tanky items (Rylais more like a 4th item) -Full tank (Frozen heart and all his friends) -IBG Bruiser (Rush IBG, then tank items, then Zephyr, it looks weird but it works) -AP BURST (I've seen JimmyX start morellonomicon and go full retard AP, it looks awesome, 0.7AP true damage nuke). -The one I love (Rush Rylais, then FH, go tank items, get Nashors as a last item)

You can even mix and match things from different builds, anything works, just be prepared to get your Q juked.

Bloodpaly1 votes

Counter pick in blind pick, brilliant.

The Whamboozler2 votes

{quoted}

Counter pick in blind pick, brilliant.

If you're playing in blind pick you kinda have to expect to run into the same noob-friendly pubstompers in every game. That's what people do in blinds. Pick the champs that they can't get in draft due to bans.

Xtremey1 votes

{quoted}

Counter pick in blind pick, brilliant.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1290449/picard-facepalm-o.gif

Cemoto1 votes

So whats the counter to ward jumping?

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

And then you should realise that when said counterpick is nerfed, there's less power left to it to actually do the countering properly.

Case in point: Pre-rework Nidalee after Diana and Zac were nerfed to hell.

Brotha1 votes

Beating Zed is ridiculously easy. item 3140 item 3157

Ahri Akali Anivia Annie Azir Chogath Cassiopeia Fizz Gragas Jayce Karma Leblanc LeeSin Lissandra Lux Morgana Orianna Riven Swain Syndra Viktor Zilean Just a small list of champions who can easily annihilate Zed pre 6 and survive his all in at level 6.

Raptamei1 votes

Takes a year or half a monthly wage to acquire all the champions.

"Just counterpick" with the one champion that shits on XYZ is not an option.

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