we’d rather help those champs become less reliant on Rylai’s with future changes

agbudar·Dec 7, 2016·5 votes·525 views

no not with future changes that means those that are left in the dirt will be left there

plenty of times when you made a big nerf or flat out removed an item and you buffed the champs affected the most imediately

i distinctly remember getting buffs because you did the exact same thing with as you are doing with

yknow for a while i really felt like riot was coming a long way, away from double standards but it seems to me that's no longer the case.

8 Comments

Big LincolnDec 7, 20161 votes

probably because making a large number champs less reliant on an item that made all of their spells slow is a lot harder to do than compensating 2 champions for an item that just made them do more damage

how are you going to compensate AurelionSol Mordekaiser Karthus Cassiopeia Taliyah Rumble Swain Azir Fiddlesticks in one patch?

WoonStruckDec 7, 20161 votes

Cass, Karth, Taliyah, Sol, Rumble, Swain, Azir, Fiddle, and Brand can all function fine without Rylai's.

Vlad and Morde Cannot. That's about it. Only Vlad and Morde really deserve compensation. The rest shouldn't be over-reliant on Rylai's anyway, and can easily fulfill their purpose without it. In fact, most of them have little-to-no weakness once they have Rylai's.

CalabokDec 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Cass, Karth, Taliyah, Sol, Rumble, Swain, Azir, Fiddle, and Brand can all function fine without Rylai's.

Vlad and Morde Cannot. That's about it.

no. Brand cannot. Vlad and Morde can.

Big LincolnDec 7, 20161 votes

Karthus with and without Rylai's makes a world of difference when it comes to landing Qs on mobile targets.

WoonStruckDec 7, 20161 votes

On all of them it makes a world of difference. The question is whether that difference is where you want them to go, balance-wise, or not.

For Vlad and Morde, its an appropriate spike in their power-curve. For the other champions, it goes from a strong early (barring fid) to an abusive mid-game, and they all scale really well into the game: fighting them is not usually an option, but you're forced to due to how Rylai's and their kit interact.

Morde and Vlad are only different in this regard because you have to essentially choose to get so insanely close to them to end up affected by them at all.

ParoeDec 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9bL4ryJX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-07T00:51:20.216+0000)

probably because making a large number champs less reliant on an item that made all of their spells slow is a lot harder to do than compensating 2 champions for an item that just made them do more damage

how are you going to compensate in one patch?

AurelionSol : Hitting an enemy champion now causes stars to be PULLED toward them, reducing near misses and increasing damage reliability. : Harvester of sorrow slows enemy champions damaged by mordekaisers other abilities by 5%, stacking up to 30%. Karthus : Lay waste now consumes more mana per addiitional cast, and reduces explosion delay by 0.2 seconds per additional cast. Cassiopeia : Needs no changes because she already has incredible lockdown and is a massive bully. Taliyah : Needs no changes because she already have good lockdown and is a massive bully. Rumble : Needs no changes. Swain : Increased health per level. Azir : needs no changes : needs no changes Fiddlesticks : Increased movement speed from passive lasts for the duration of combat.

Teridax68Dec 7, 20161 votes

It's worth noting that it's often difficult to predict ahead of time which specific champions are especially dependent on a specific item, and by how much. When Deathfire Grasp was removed, for example, Ahri was buffed in compensation, and shot up to around a >55% win rate, because she wasn't actually all that dependent on DFG, and had several other good fallback options. This might be a similar situation, and it might be better to analyze the performance of all affected champions over the patch cycle, and then balance accordingly, instead of buffing all candidates in one go and creating a potentially even worse balance state. Another issue with Rylai's is that it's been overused on a lot of champions, which makes it even harder to know exactly who really needs it. It might take at least a patch cycle to determine which champions are "true" Rylai's users, and which ones have simply tagged along for its excessive stats.