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Thank you Riot!

Malicious Metal··26 votes·5,510 views

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/09/92-pbe-update.html

~~These Mordekaiser changes are far better than what I anticipated! It gives Mordekaiser some of his Solo lane prowess back without affecting his duo lane too much! -He's able to self cast! Hallelujah! -All his health costs are up to compensate for this buff! I expected nothing less -His W damage was increased significantly, adding to his wave clearing potential! Great stuff! -His heal on minions reduced to 25 from 33%, which is needed or else he'd become an immovable object in lane!

Overall I feel these changes will help SoloKaiser out A LOT! You at RiotHQ might not think he'll get back at 50% winrate but I'm certain he will! These changes open him up to both top, mid and Jungle and you deserve a large pat on the back with a heavy metal gauntlet!

I don't know how to thank you properly! ~Malicious Metal!~~

EDIT numero uno; Seems like you can only dish out the reactivation damage even though you can self cast. FFs, and I felt like doing a goddamn handstand -_-

Edit Numero duo; It's a NERF to solo lane Mordekaiser since his W has a health cost, his Q costs more and he only heals for 25% from the minions.... So yeah, in an attempt to buff solo lane Mordekaiser they actually nerfed him even further since the 70 heal from the ability will NEVER compensate for the increased health costs but hurt him even more solo. SIGH

30 Comments

RiotCertainlyT20 votes

This set of changes is what we are testing internally at present, and might very well be all we do for 5.18. I do anticipate them being a buff to solokaiser -- It's hard to not generate net health from W (despite the hp cost), and if you hit your lane opponent it's a sizeable heal (half an hp potion at rank 1).

These changes alone are probably not enough for his solo lane to be balanced, but I'd like to see where it leaves him when played duo/jungle. It's frustrating to have your favorite champion not quickly brought to viability. It's more frustrating to be put on a buff/nerf roller coaster. Also, this is the patch worlds will be played on, so I'm trying to be cautious (not my forte).

KANYE OBAMA GOD2 votes

Thank you CertainlyT.

People get so worked up over anything they see happen on the PBE when everything there could or could not go to live the way it is. It's a place for testing, so they're gonna make changes to champions and test it there. If it doesn't do enough for solokaiser but makes duokaiser better, you'll make changes accordingly because that's how it works.

Bijorn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ducky Sinky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9aqmcHa3,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-09-03T08:56:50.279+0000)

Thank you CertainlyT.

People get so worked up over anything they see happen on the PBE when everything there could or could not go to live the way it is. It's a place for testing, so they're gonna make changes to champions and test it there. If it doesn't do enough for solokaiser but makes duokaiser better, you'll make changes accordingly because that's how it works.

Yet most of the time the PBE does not change. With the Mord rework in general it was stated that Solokaiser would not be effected that much. Yet here we are where Solokaiser was absolutely dismantled. It is very upsetting to see the self cast W do NO damage until reactivated. What exactly is the point of this? I just don't understand it. W is still going to be a useless skill until you get your first few items. Internal tests showed that Solokaiser was fine, yet we saw that that was not the case. Blame me all you want for being very skeptical of this change for Solokaiser.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Thank you, this was a must for any HP cost based champion.

ABlueQuaker2 votes

Please just revert Mordekaiser to the state that he was in at the beginning of the season. Mordekaiser was already good, albeit popularly dismissed as 'mediocre' or even 'weak'. All he ever needed was some sort of conditional movement speed.

E.g. Movement Speed toward each other (W). Furor-type passive on-hit when using Q. Movement Speed based off Passive Shield %.

I got f*cking 2 Quadras and a Penta within my first two weeks of playing him. Weak my ass. It's always been a circlejerk by players who are either to impatient to learn him, or players who are too shit to learn him.

Beoridas1 votes

are you sincerely asking for a revert on a major identity rework on a new champ culture? (juggernaut) ....might aswell leave a blank post. its not going to happen and you know it.

ABlueQuaker2 votes

One can only dream...

I really wanna know how making a formerly strong solo laner have to get babysat for the first 15 minutes of the game = 'Juggernaut'.

'Vulnerable Juggernaut' is essentially an oxymoron.

Beoridas1 votes

actually Riot did mention their definition of juggernault.

Slow moving, weak earlier, low reach while being extremely dangerous in melee range and unstoppable late game (if within reach)

They are very vulnerable to kite, mobility, and health sustain/sustained dmg. Its not that of an oxymoron when you think of it.

Silents4291 votes

And this is a prime example of someone who has no idea about game balance or why the old Mordekaiser was a problem everyone.

Dr Poro1 votes

I have just one favour to ask. Something I loved about his W only being castable on allies was that when you and an ally are inside eachother, you can't accidentally cast it on yourself and waste part of the effect. Can you make it so that if you cast it on yourself while an ally is nearby, it searches for the nearest ally to cast it on instead? There's litterally no reason to cast it on yourself when there's an ally in range, so no one actually intentionally does that. It would help people who don't have such precise aim like myself.

sp4411 votes

Have you considered allowing him to cast his W on minions?

IllumanatiObama1 votes

I think being able to cast the the W on ally minions would be fair. Some stats might have to be adjusted so it isn't ridiculously strong though.

Insane Pyromanic1 votes

{quoted}

This set of changes is what we are testing internally at present, and might very well be all we do for 5.18. I do anticipate them being a buff to solokaiser -- It's hard to not generate net health from W (despite the hp cost), and if you hit your lane opponent it's a sizeable heal (half an hp potion at rank 1).

These changes alone are probably not enough for his solo lane to be balanced, but I'd like to see where it leaves him when played duo/jungle. It's frustrating to have your favorite champion not quickly brought to viability. It's more frustrating to be put on a buff/nerf roller coaster. Also, this is the patch worlds will be played on, so I'm trying to be cautious (not my forte).

I think you did a wonderful job with mordekaiser's rework. He hasn't had a real role since he was created and his laning phase was too oppressive for the opponent when old morde was allowed to be strong. New morde feels like he has legitimate strengths and weaknesses.

I'm kind of skeptical about the overlap damage being removed completely and him being able to self cast w, he might become too strong of a mid laner with a self heal (I felt that his only being able to w when with an ally was very unique). That said if this change goes through please make his w automatically target the nearest champion if there is one in range if self cast like Nunu bloodboil.

I'm also surprised that GD never caught on that the new solo top morde destroys their arch nemesis Riven , even without his w. Also people should builditem 3748 more often, its like you guys made that item for him.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

I feel the removal of Mordekaiser's w overlap damage is a lost opportunity for balancing his solo vs duo.

Making Morde's DoT ALWAYS apply to himself, whether or not he has an ally to apply it to, but shared with his ally when the ally is with in its range and doubled on the overlap. This would preserve and clarify the skills team oriented game play, without leaving solo lane Morde in the dust.

I feel ADC Morde is almost certainly still too strong as he is right now on PBE (Perhaps even stronger), while Solo lane Morde somehow ended up even worse, due to the higher health costs of his abilities.

Xandure1 votes

CertainlyT, mine is probably not going to be the most popular opinion in this thread, but I feel that you shouldn't compromise duo lane Morde to shore up his solo laning. I understand how people will be upset about how Morde might not always have full access to his abilities in solo lanes, but I feel that his new identity as a champion who excels with (or even requires) a partner is refreshing, and that diluting that new identity to try and appease those who enjoyed his old one will make everyone dissapointed. He can't go back to the play style he had before; there was a reason you had to rework him.

You also haven't been afraid to require teammates nearby for a champion to be at maximum effectiveness. Supports are prime examples of that, and even Kalista, a fellow bot lane carry, only has 2.5 abilities available without her Soulbound nearby, and that's much more restrictive than Morde's "any nearby champion".

If Morde's win rate is too low, by all means buff him. But please, not at the expense of duo lane Morde. I'd hate for you to start killing off a legitimate play style before there's been enough time for people to really adjust their mindset about how new Morde functions and plays best.

P.S. On a more specific point, I don't like the change to his W that removes the ability for both circles to stack damage. It led to interesting choices for bot lane compositions, and helped compensate for the reduced harass potential of a melee support with more all-in damage. It also doesn't feel as intuitive or satisfying as stacking damage, and gave both Morde and his partner the ability to try and optimist for that damage.

Baron of Bread1 votes

He isn't nerfing duokaiser to make solokaiser better. He is nerfing duokaiser because it was really strong (~56% win rate I think).

You can have a viable Solokaiser and a better Duokaiser and still satisfy those of us who liked Mordekaiser. The Solokaiser just needs to be viable.

rG Thundrag1 votes

{quoted}

This set of changes is what we are testing internally at present, and might very well be all we do for 5.18. I do anticipate them being a buff to solokaiser -- It's hard to not generate net health from W (despite the hp cost), and if you hit your lane opponent it's a sizeable heal (half an hp potion at rank 1).

These changes alone are probably not enough for his solo lane to be balanced, but I'd like to see where it leaves him when played duo/jungle. It's frustrating to have your favorite champion not quickly brought to viability. It's more frustrating to be put on a buff/nerf roller coaster. Also, this is the patch worlds will be played on, so I'm trying to be cautious (not my forte).

It would be incredibly simple to make his w do the damage over time when solo but do only 50% damage when alone, also why was his w changed to a max of 2 units hit for the heal down from 3 thats an incredibly nerf to duo/solo lane morde's sustain in lane/fights

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

This set of changes is what we are testing internally at present, and might very well be all we do for 5.18. I do anticipate them being a buff to solokaiser -- It's hard to not generate net health from W (despite the hp cost), and if you hit your lane opponent it's a sizeable heal (half an hp potion at rank 1).

These changes alone are probably not enough for his solo lane to be balanced, but I'd like to see where it leaves him when played duo/jungle. It's frustrating to have your favorite champion not quickly brought to viability. It's more frustrating to be put on a buff/nerf roller coaster. Also, this is the patch worlds will be played on, so I'm trying to be cautious (not my forte).

I wonder if there's a chance to hotfix in these changes during 5.17, so we can have some time to assess and adjust as needed for 5.18 and worlds?

Zhugan1 votes

You're right, it won't make his solo lane balanced. It will make his solo lane undefeatable if you are fighting Morde as a melee champion, WHICH WAS EXACTLY WHAT THIS WHOLE CHANGE WAS MEANT TO AVOID.

Sorry if I seem a little irate, but this change is gonna make Mordehueser a straight up murder bot against melee champions between sustaining through minions, zoning potential with third Q proc, and AoE pushing power through W+E together. (Not to mention that his level 6 all in will be BEYOND terrifying if you don't have multiple escape tools if the Morde player has half a brain.)

MadDoughnutz5 votes

Keep posting, Malicious. Keep at what you're doing. These changes are STILL on the PBE, and can be adjusted to a more balanced lane for Solo Kaiser. These seem like just just an initial set of changes to see how it will work, and they won't be going out for -quite- a long time since we just got a patch.

Don't despair just yet, there's another month at least for Solo Morde players to get these initial changes to the right place.

Malicious Metal1 votes

{quoted}

Keep posting, Malicious. Keep at what you're doing. These changes are STILL on the PBE, and can be adjusted to a more balanced lane for Solo Kaiser. These seem like just just an initial set of changes to see how it will work, and they won't be going out for -quite- a long time since we just got a patch.

Don't despair just yet, there's another month at least for Solo Morde players to get these initial changes to the right place.

Thank you for your support. Still, I think with the right tweaks Morde WILL become the first champion viable in all four lanes. His build path's really diverse now and he can be built AD, AP, Tank, Bruiser, etc. If he'll get the solo damage on his W with the increased damage if an ally joins him with their metal shroud he'll get his 50% win rate both top and mid back while still being enticed to play duo due to the support and the W passive/damage and dragon clone.

This is exactly what he needs to be perfect in my eyes. If Riot gives this idea a quick test drive they'll soon realize that this is exactly what he needs to be a viable pick in other lanes and make everyone happy :)

MadDoughnutz1 votes

Only time will tell if that's Riots intended goal or not. I honestly think they don't want him 100% viable in solo lane, from what I've seen of their posts and their changes, probably around only 70-80% viable there. That was their stated intent, to move him to the duo lane, and it succeeded hard as he's turned into quite a pub stomper down there when paired with somebody like Blitzcrank.

With that being said, I don't play Morde, in either lanes. So I can't really judge what is healthy for him or not. But it's your quest. Keep being positive and hopeful. Change can -always- come for the better. But also realize that Riot will do what they will with their game and their champions as they see fit.

Syvenon1 votes

HEY! KAYLE HAD THAT SPOT WAY BEFORE! Currently, Kayle is decent in Mid, Top, and Jungle. Way way back when, Kayle was actually considered primarily a support (because anyone with a heal was instantly a support). Only place she's never really been totally viable was as an ADC, but it has definitely happened before.

Hotlin3 Fling1 votes

Chogath

Icestar11861 votes

I would like to point out that Kayle sees play top, jungle, mid, and support.

Nothing against Mord being viable in all lanes, though.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

I would like to point out that Kayle sees play top, jungle, mid, and support.

Nothing against Mord being viable in all lanes, though.

Karma top/mid/jg/supp

Burnt Iron King2 votes

Screw you Malicious.... I thought like I had to thank riot myself but after reading these edits I feel like writing a spiteful thread aimed at their balance department.

This is a joke, a really, really bad one and they should pull their head out of their arses and give Morde the solo damage back...

Seriously, if you look at your thread without the edits I feel like it would have been such a great way to give him the missing power back, but NO! We can't have that, can we?

Come on Riot, listen to this man and give Mordekaiser the solo shroud's damage and he'll be in an OK spot solo -.-

Baron of Bread1 votes

You get the W heal from multiple targets, so if you manage to clip the enemy and some minions you can get a whopping 105 heal! Of course, if you miss the champ you only get 52.5, but it is something.

More seriously, they are at least trying. They were off the mark, but a little more tweaking on the kit in the right direction and we might have our Solokaiser.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

Yeah, sorry, but if you read it, it's a NERF to solo lane Morde :/

Giving the skill a health cost makes the sustain factor completely cancel out in solo lanes. Also, his W does NO damage for the duration if self-cast, and only deals damage for the reactivation, which is almost nothing. Oh well, at least they tried.

Carnage1 votes

right

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