I'm kinda sick of trashfire bot lanes and 0/10 mid laners can we stop the snowball meta?

Hammermancer·Mar 21, 2018·31 votes·1,927 views

Seriously

Like if i'm in top lane and decimating, even if i'm in a golden throne on top lane three items deep at 10 minutes, enemy mid and adc are full build and 75 kills deep.... Maybe a slight exaggeration but if you're king of the roof and the basement lights on fire you're still gonna get fucked

ok i'm only silver, but i'm getting b3 jungles and mids constantly, it hurts, they don't farm even like silvers, it's something.. bewildering

meanwhile enemy team is getting silver 1 adcs and junglers

i'll have a wukong jungle on my team, enemy will have a vi jungle

i see 45% winrates on my teams and 58% winrates on enemy teams

38 Comments

Ok sure but whyMar 21, 201813 votes

Yeah, having an idiot 0/10 on my team would be less excruciating if it didn't guarantee I'd have to deal with an enemy with 2 more items than me

RedEveMar 21, 20188 votes

You seem to forget something in this post- If they can't win lane, why don't they just sit back instead of running in and inting

DysnomiaMar 21, 20188 votes

It is ego fighting most of the time.

SweedishGunnerMar 21, 20181 votes

You don't know? They're going for the 10 death bonus LP!

HammermancerMar 21, 20188 votes

because after the second death the 1shots become real

SilverjustMar 21, 20181 votes

I have the feeling, it does not work that well anymore

It Hertz When IPMar 22, 20181 votes

Because due to snowball damage they're dying if the enemy even looks at them funny, and unless the support is God-tier they have limited vision, meaning they are now restricted to literally staying within 200 range of the turret crying. SO now they're falling behind in CS and XP and can't leave arms length of the turret without dying instantly, the jungler has usually by now written them off as a lost cause, so they're off ganking someone else...

SO yeah. They aren't sitting under the turret twiddling their thumbs doing nothing, watching their opponents getting further and further ahead. Should they be hanging back? Yes, pick up some assists or splitpush later to catch up. Will they? Unlikely, because that's MISERABLY BORING AS FUCK.

FatedSaviourMar 22, 20181 votes

i was losing lane once as morde because warwick was camping me, i thought, instead of sitting under tower, missing farm, waiting to be dives, im gonna go out, get farm, and get ganked, i mean, the solution is simple, towers need to exist past level 6

JefftiffyMar 21, 20186 votes

I'd have an 0/10 mid lane over a 3/10 mid lane. 900+ less gold they can get.

RocketRelmMar 21, 20181 votes

Eh, mid lanes often get assists, and those also reset the gold counter.

lolibusMar 21, 20186 votes

hey guys I'm toplane in silver elo and this botlane meta prevents me from winning games and thats why I'm stuck in silver, its totally not because no matter how hard I stomp my lane I become an useless potatoe after the laning phase because I dont know what I'm doing!

[sg-miss-fortune]

Serious4WhyMar 21, 20181 votes

I mean 14/0 bruiser vs. 14/0 Varus I think Varus wins just champion to champion tbh.

big boi edriMar 21, 20181 votes

He plays Jayce, he can carry most games if he knows what he’s doing. His MMR is Bronze 1/S5.

HammermancerMar 21, 20182 votes

I owned that in my post, I know all four jayce builds and every possible combo, I have much to learn in the game and i'll get better

issue i have is that the actual game itself has many issues that people of all levels of play are experiencing

and considering my game knowledge is within the sphere of 75% of the game's playerbase, i'm thinking there are issues with the game

Troll for TrumpMar 21, 20184 votes

The problem is that top lane still isn't doing enough or having as large as an impact as the other roles; Bot/mid/jg need to have their impact on the game reduced, and top needs its impact increased.

Riot has acknowledged this and they've been working on it throughout the season

JefftiffyMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ðownright Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9UpnEE8U,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-03-21T06:43:26.855+0000)

The problem is that top lane still isn't doing enough or having as large as an impact as the other roles; Bot/mid/jg need to have their impact on the game reduced, and top needs its impact increased.

Riot has acknowledged this and they've been working on it throughout the season

It will always be that way as long as damage creep and mobility creep exist. No way to fix it other than to cut down on both. Unfortunately we have 120+ champs making it hard to deal with this as it has already happened. New runes didn't help much other than the shockwave one which is amazing. Grasp is kind of bad actually except on a very select pool of champs. And the other (guardian) is pretty laughable to the point I never remember it. I had to look it up that's how unmemorable it is to me. And to top everything off its easier to just stack lethality and armor pen than in the past as it stacks in a order that is much better.

T4underboltMar 21, 20182 votes

I think the problem and reason why top lane is not impactful as in the past is too cheap items with too much power for ADCs and supports. If ADCs didn't have that cheap items and actually had to scale longer to get power top laners would have more time to play laning phase and start being impactful while bot lane would take much longer before getting to late game. Many top laners are early/mid game champions e.g. renekton. They are rendered useless because they don't even get to use advantage they have because ADCs are already at late game with items while renekton just hit his mid game power spike.

Troll for TrumpMar 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I think the problem and reason why top lane is not impactful as in the past is too cheap items with too much power for ADCs and supports. If ADCs didn't have that cheap items and actually had to scale longer to get power top laners would have more time to play laning phase and start being impactful while bot lane would take much longer before getting to late game. Many top laners are early/mid game champions e.g. renekton. They are rendered useless because they don't even get to use advantage they have because ADCs are already at late game with items while renekton just hit his mid game power spike.

True, but even the juggernauts that are supposed to be good lategame are still generally worse off than other classes, which sucks

My Waifu VanillaMar 21, 20181 votes

That's a champion problem and not an item problem though. Nasus can infinitely stack all he wants but will still be absolutely useless late game since it doesn't matter if you have 1000 damage Qs when you get chain CCed (hard or soft doesn't matter) and can't touch anything once. It's why Darius HAS to typically run phase rush and flash+ghost because he can't do anything else besides hope he can run faster than you can slow.

TopperHMar 21, 20184 votes

I don't know, I still see he best pro teams play around their toplaner more often than not.

Kahn and Huni just to name a few.

In pro play, early plays happen topside more often than botside I feel.

I often see toplaner having huge impact on the games in pro play, like Wunder Camille in the G2 vs UOL game last week.

saltranMar 21, 20181 votes

Look at the last KT vs SKT: the series where played by the top-jng from both sides and botlanes afk farming. Smeb and Score trashed Intara and Blank so they won both games.

Anyway I know that pro play=/=SoloQ, but it bothers me when ppl that doesn't even watch the Lcs/Lck/Lpl says that toplane is irrelevant there.

My Waifu VanillaMar 21, 20181 votes

Keep in mind people actually keep and utilize vision bot side so it's much easier to force 2v1s or 2v2s then to risk going for the "bot lane bungalo" and waste time while your top laner gets dove. In competitive play unless the fight is in the river most of the time the mid laner isn't able to just run bot and get a kill like in solo queue because bot lane isn't going to ignore the 10 pings saying Syndra is missing and then flame you for not following her into fog.

Serious4WhyMar 21, 20181 votes

Khan is the new Faker, Huni is smurfing in NA, you can't look at specific players or teams and say the snowballing top lane has more value. Yes, Top is definitely the strongest we've seen it in a bit. But, you have to view the game in terms of Champion to Champion comparison, and in that case, ADCs definitely have more return on investment when they're provided resources since Varus, Kog'Maw, Ezreal and Xayah have 2 item power spikes that are very efficient and provide more value in team fights in a team fight focused meta, and on top that Bruiser items are so much more expensive collectively and have less utility than ADC items. Basically, Bruiser items are stat sticks (here's a fat stack of AD and health, Ravenous/Titanic, TriForce, Sterak's), whereas Guinsoos and Wit's end is mixed damage and attack speed amp that shreds magic resist which inherently enhances your Mid lane Mage's damage as well.

Troll for TrumpMar 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't know, I still see he best pro teams play around their toplaner more often than not.

Kahn and Huni just to name a few.

In pro play, early plays happen topside more often than botside I feel.

I often see toplaner having huge impact on the games in pro play, like Wunder Camille in the G2 vs UOL game last week.

Never use LCS as an indicator of soloQ

0 HogapuMar 21, 20183 votes

"75 kills 10 min" "slight exageration" [sg-miss-fortune]

DysnomiaMar 21, 20182 votes

It is also like when the enemy team gets Nasus we brace for oblivion and when i have it in my team he is in Teemo/Olaf nutrition program.

Jackin ur lawnMar 21, 20182 votes

Oh yes.........I swear silver is a test of wills. Like you hit s5 and suddenly as if by a cursed magic you are getting the worst team players imaginable in like every game. You can que other roles to change it up and still there they will be.

VvVVvVMar 21, 20182 votes

Part of your post confuses me but as for the rank of players you are seeing its simple. You are matched in your game by your MMR, not your rank. You can be Silver 3 and 4 and still get players that are in Bronze on your team.

I am currently in that situation.

3 weeks ago i was Silver 3 about 1 win away from my Silver 2 promos. Then I hit a rough couple of weeks with a mixture of bad games followed by games with trolls, players DC and stuff like that. Next thing i know i feel back to Silver 5.

Now when you reach 0LP it takes a lot of losses for you to demote back to Bronze but your MMR still goes down. So if you are losing more than you are winning, but winning enough to keep from demoting then you will have the MMR of a Bronze 1, 2, or 3 while still in Silver. Also take in the fact that some could be duoing with 1 being Silver and the other low Bronze.

Its rough when you hit long losing streaks no matter if its from trolls, afkers or just games you played badly because you will start to get matched with players who are less skilled with less game knowledge.

Believe me i know, like i said, im going through that now. I mainly support but right now i cant even que up support because im getting matched with people who some are still in their placements and are in their 1st ever ranked games. Their game experience is just too low to try to support. So im just queing top and mid and forcing myself to try to call more shots when i see them just wondering around not knowing what to do.

XonraMar 21, 20181 votes

I think unless they start patching for live and pro play (which they never will) we will get more snowball as time goes on. Riot wants fast games and more snowbally games to fit more into LCS broadcasts. We will Sadly never go back to how it used to be, and now they are even nerfing waveclear.

It is going to get worse if it ever does get any better.

big boi edriMar 21, 20181 votes

i'll have a wukong jungle on my team, enemy will have a vi jungle

Woah bro, calm down now. It can work, lol

130xMar 21, 20181 votes

Bad players do not make this a "snowball meta." Your real issue is with matchmaking.

Ionian VulpixMar 21, 20181 votes

And I'm sick and tired of top lane feeding while playing a character that is completely useless when behind.

Serious4WhyMar 21, 20181 votes

Well in terms of your play, you need to play a champion that can 1v9 every game or you will lose 25% of those games even if you are fed. Also, ADCs are very strong right now so you either need to play the role or play role that accelerates your bot lane, there's barely any champs that truly can 1v5 a game if you're relatively the same skill level as your enemies. Try Annie Mid, hard farm, when your lane is shoved go double kill bot with ult, Rinse and repeat. until ADCs get nerfed you just have to get used to playing around them or you will lose. And if Snowballing didn't exist bruisers in top would have no value, so be careful what you wish for.

ThefrostyvikingMar 21, 20181 votes

Just two nights ago i was playing ADC and due to playing against Rengar jungle, i was playing extremely safe as to avoid feeding him.....

Then i realize my toplane only has one gear and it's forward, he feeds his ass of to the enemy rengar and the mundo he was laning against and then flames the daylight outa me for not being able to do shit about either of them.

My normal elo is somewhere between gold/plati/ low diamond if the people i play with are anything to go by......so i dare say, shit happens everywhere.

FCJAAAAGOOOOMar 21, 20181 votes

Utter absolute can't wipe their own rear end teammates. I remember seeing them in season 2 very rarely, thinking "man I'm happy that isn't the norm". Now it's the norm. There's one in almost every game. It doesn't even seem like it has anything to do with feeding. _ Why._

Rockm SockmMar 21, 20181 votes

Strange, people say the same thing about our 0/4 top laner while there top is tping bot for kills, tower and dragon.

Crazy how a good top laner just runes any fed adc early.

50Shades0fTryndaMar 21, 20181 votes

if you love the game less then try with playing less.

simple method but yet hard to accomplish

Snowman ArcMar 22, 20181 votes

Happens in every division. I was at Plat 3 60LP, then I lost 18 of my last 22 games, because I was getting teammates with 45% winrates etc. I dropped all the way to Plat 4 0LP. It was hard to watch honestly.