I'm repeatedly griefed for picking Sona

chipndip1·Mar 17, 2017·29 votes·6,671 views

Two lobbies in a row today I catch shit for trying to play Sona, one of which my jungler takes tp/heal to force me to dodge. I'm assumed to be a gamer girl that's going to feed lane for picking Sona. I'm told that I did nothing in lane regardless of how I actually did for picking Sona.

Riot, none of your colorful writing about making Sona more impactful or appreciated as a champ reflects what you've actually done with this champ. If you're gonna Galio a support in the future, can it be Sona?

91 Comments

Deep Terror NamiMar 17, 201714 votes

Care less what they think before seeing what you can do. Carry their toxic asses and maybe they'll apologize with gifts?

chipndip1Mar 17, 20178 votes

When my jungler is forcing me to dodge by inting from champ select, I'm not carrying that.
Even if I do well, I'm still told that my champ is bad or I'm bad.

Doesn't matter what I do, community perception when you're not low elo is that Sona is shit, and that effects how my team plays around me on a meta level that I don't appreciate.

SirLapseMar 17, 20175 votes

{quoted}

When my jungler is forcing me to dodge by inting from champ select, I'm not carrying that.

Even if I do well, I'm still told that my champ is bad or I'm bad.

Doesn't matter what I do, community perception when you're not low elo is that Sona is shit, and that effects how my team plays around me on a meta level that I don't appreciate.

I've already had the same experience with Kha'Zix jungle in S4 with constant amounts of "why are you using a dead champion" and people were actually surprised when I would be winning at any point through my own influence. People hating something you play isn't restricted to elo ranges even if the picks may be.

If you enjoy something enough to one trick it then what other players think shouldn't matter. Seen it so many times with Teemo in the past with high elo players thinking he's garbage because he was primarily a splitpusher and didn't have any good teamfight builds. And I still see that stigma pop up at times. Saw the same thing happen with Kindred just recently too.

Deep Terror NamiMar 17, 20178 votes

I mean, you can't change someone's mind if you don't show them, and if you have a bad game it's going to get worse. Best thing to do is just ignore it (mute if you have to) and not look to naysayers for approval.

ACTI0NBASTARDMar 17, 20177 votes

{quoted}

When my jungler is forcing me to dodge by inting from champ select, I'm not carrying that.

Even if I do well, I'm still told that my champ is bad or I'm bad.

Doesn't matter what I do, community perception when you're not low elo is that Sona is shit, and that effects how my team plays around me on a meta level that I don't appreciate.

Fuck the haters. Sona 4 lyfe. On a serious note, play what you enjoy. Screw their opinion. Just mute them and play to the best of your ability.

chipndip1Mar 17, 20177 votes

Like I said: My pick effects my team on a meta level I don't appreciate. Flaming, int feeding, not ganking my lane because they don't remember/care I have a slow. There are things that no amount of muting is going to help, although it's not the worst idea for when I get really heated from all the bullshit.

SanKakUMar 17, 20176 votes

Don't even reply to DTN. He just insults literally everyone. Biggest troll on these forums.

SirLapseMar 17, 201712 votes

I've never once gotten grieved for picking Sona. Support in general is a really underappreciated role and I could be the freakin' god of peel on Leona and never get credited for saving my teammates. It's pretty much a thankless job and it's extremely unsatisfying. There's a reason support isn't really an enjoyed role.

You're not at fault for picking Sona and you shouldn't be listening to the haters. A lot of scapegoating goes around and bot lane is primarily one of the targets you'll see even Challenger players complain about if they lost AS A LANE (meaning not just you by yourself). Even if you're not at fault like damn...

chipndip1Mar 17, 20178 votes

Sorry to be rude, but you're not going to be griefed for picking Sona in Silver IV. Higher you go, more people despise her.

Pika310Mar 17, 201713 votes

Well, I can personally attest that you will be griefed for it in any elo, even bronze, but you're correct. The odds increase on an exponential curve as you rise in rank, it's just that fewer Silver 4 players are aware of the poor state Rito has abandoned Sona to.

TuffnarMar 17, 20177 votes

From my (bronze 5 q_q) experience as a player who plays a good bit of adc, in this one shot meta Graves Yasuo Rengar Fizz Seeing ANY support without peel (100 cd ult isn't exactly peel) is an instant "Can we get something more tanky please" Hoping to god they pick something like leona. Playing adc in bronze is hard enough because no matter how good you position anyone playing Zed or Yasuo or any other mobility oneshot (assassins) WILL get to you without any trouble so when your support notices half the time it happens, it'd make my life a whole lot easier if they had something in their kit that could save me. Of course i'm not going to flame them for "trash pick gg" but I think you can understand.

AnomanderMar 17, 20171 votes

Yup because a Heal shield won't help keep you alive.....Or a Movement speed buff for positioning.... Or a damage steroid to burst them down....

Maybe people should try a tanky top or jungle........

AWildAPKalistaMar 17, 20176 votes

The weakest heal in the game, the weakest and shortest duration shield in the game, a ms buff vs blinks, dashes and general, "I'm gonna kill you before you can even step out of basic attack range." Need I even mention that "bursting" an assassin before they burst you is just unrealistic? Assassin kits are designed to PREVENT counterplay, hence why the class is so blatantly imbalanced and unhealthy to this game.

Asayake 5150glowMar 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I've never once gotten grieved for picking Sona. Support in general is a really underappreciated role and I could be the freakin' god of peel on Leona and never get credited for saving my teammates. It's pretty much a thankless job and it's extremely unsatisfying. There's a reason support isn't really an enjoyed role.

You're not at fault for picking Sona and you shouldn't be listening to the haters. A lot of scapegoating goes around and bot lane is primarily one of the targets you'll see even Challenger players complain about if they lost AS A LANE (meaning not just you by yourself). Even if you're not at fault like damn...

No, see, you gotta sacrifice yourself and give your item 3401 shield (this was when it was only to 1 champion excluding yourself, I think) to your Zed when the Karthus is ulting :P

ErockandrollMar 17, 201711 votes

As a Sona main myself, I really don't get that level of grief. Unless the team thinks that I should play a Tank support because we don't have one. And then I secretly laugh at them for thinking that a gold starved support can serve as the teams sole frontliner.

chipndip1Mar 17, 20174 votes

I've even tried explaining it in detail. People will simply type "lol" to not read what you're typing.

AWildAPKalistaMar 17, 20175 votes

That's because no amount of justifications can disprove numerical facts. Numbers are the one universal truth, you can't dissuade me from TRUE FACTS that seven is a prime number, that every whole number divisible by 2 is even or that pies are square, despite all the round pie dishes they sell. That last part was a math joke, but that's just because I can't take you seriously, even though we're allies in our revolt against Rito.

AhristocatsMar 17, 201711 votes

{quoted}

I'm assumed to be a gamer girl

made my day

i don't blame high elo players for telling me to not pick sona, she's straight up garbage in high elo with poor numbers and has to fight in low range as a squishy enchenter with trash base stats

though of course if they start feeding or flaming because i picked sona i report them

Pika310Mar 17, 20179 votes

I will say, I empathize with those players. I first politely ask teammates to not pick Sona, but about 98% of the time they refuse to communicate or just simply refuse to play someone else and I'm forced to ban her. However, this is because I myself used to be a Sona main pre-4.13 and as such I have extensive insight and knowledge as to her currently unplayable state. If I as a Sona main don't trust myself to do well on her, I sure as hell don't expect a stranger to.

That said, I also empathize with your plight to Rito for the injustices they've committed against Sona, but 6.14 has proven that Rito doesn't have a clue as to how balance her properly. So until they're willing to put someone with a brain on the project, she'd be better off being reverted to pre-4.13 and given pure buffs(no tradeoffs) to bring her into line with today's power creep.

Masala ChaiMar 17, 201710 votes

I honestly think AP Scaling Utility is probably the dumbest thing in the game. Especially on champs designed or reworked into supports and not intended for midlaners.

If they just gave Sona better base values, and increased her skill floor, and made her able to push instead of getting shoved, or even give her cc. She would be a better champ. Her kit is extremely binary as she only has one skill shot in her entire kit and the rest of her abilities are auto-targetted, as a result, it's hard to give her a satisfying kit without having her smush everyone in Bronze. Her highest winrate build is literally rush Lich Bane, a Luden's cap it off with a deathcap and void, and then maybe another AP Item or Ardent. Unbohlievable.

In her current state, Sona is more consistent, but more risky, and less effective Karma. Rework her Q so it's slightly less consistent, give it more value, and give her her auras back. If Riot is an advocate against invisible power, then they wouldn't have tacked on every little thing in the world on Lee Sin's kit.

SirLapseMar 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Full Moon Ace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Pv7v6hv,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-03-17T17:29:04.109+0000)

I honestly think AP Scaling Utility is probably the dumbest thing in the game. Especially on champs designed or reworked into supports and not intended for midlaners.

If they just gave Sona better base values, and increased her skill floor, and made her able to push instead of getting shoved, or even give her cc. She would be a better champ. Her kit is extremely binary as she only has one skill shot in her entire kit and the rest of her abilities are auto-targetted, as a result, it's hard to give her a satisfying kit without having her smush everyone in Bronze. Her highest winrate build is literally rush Lich Bane, a Luden's cap it off with a deathcap and void, and then maybe another AP Item or Ardent. Unbohlievable.

In her current state, Sona is more consistent, but more risky, and less effective Karma. Rework her Q so it's slightly less consistent, give it more value, and give her her auras back. If Riot is an advocate against invisible power, then they wouldn't have tacked on every little thing in the world on Lee Sin's kit.

The team was smaller when they did the rework on Sona ages ago and I highly doubt they'd do the same thing if they were handling her again. Not going to argue Lee Sin because it's irrelevant to this post.

I don't think her auras need to return as they just would add onto the damage creep and doesn't deter the Lich Bane building (if anything that actually will make it more prevalent because it increased AD/AP back then). Her kit is binary imo because you're not forced to play around with anything other than Staccato, and its influence on choice is so non-impactful that you'll mostly be going for Q Staccato 90% of the time. Pre-rework there was no semblance of choice either, so it was just as binary (the heal was pretty strong back then and even if you could argue the case of less damage taken on W, it wasn't necessary to do like for shielding champions). Even in this thread it was stated "people ignore that I have a slow." It requires too much setup to get her soft CC for not enough returns. To me, that basically says her E needs a rework along with a powershift from Q to Staccato so you're not losing out for making impactful choices.

I'd like to see more posts like yours that mention directly about Lich Bane and what exactly should be done over where Sona should stand instead of "generalist with poke and heal and ult engage" which was already there pre-rework. She was literally just stronger at what she did.

Masala ChaiMar 17, 20171 votes

Skill expression should be present in Sona's kit outside of "Flash Ult" or "How fast can I mash 3 buttons". Music is an art, more specifically music with a classical instrument (as it appears Sona's etwhal is based off of a Guzheng) is a structured art not modernist like Pollock. I feel like Riot should ask the following questions when addressing Sona (if they ever will): What does Sona represent? How does her theme feel? How does she execute that theme? How does she make errors and how is she punished? Things like that. It may involve a generalist kit, but maybe a bit more of concentration over a larger area and a greater power budget that isn't dependent on items to function.

SuperPewPewApr 6, 20173 votes

I still hate Fearless, since that rework on 4.13. lol.

AWildAPKalistaApr 6, 20173 votes

My close friend hates him for the not just one, but TWO ENTIRE TIMES he ruined the entire jungle as a role. I don't understand how Fearless still has a job, especially after it took Rito all of season 5 making fixes to the mess he did to jungle the FIRST time. Then he was allowed to do it again.

Did I mention Fearless is a jungle main and had never played a single game of Sona in his life, when he volunteered to rework her? I mean, it says right on his Twitter that he tends to sit around Bronze 1 - Silver 5, but still... JUNGLE MAIN.

SuperPewPewApr 6, 20171 votes

The worst thing is that during all those times, he (and Riot?) Didn't even take in consideration players input. Like, a lot of people complained (myself included) and the only thing they did was reduce Q's CD a little bit (to 8s, which was actually higher than pre-rework Sona's cooldown) and increase the aura range by... 50 units.

Quite frankly, both Sona and the Jungle Changes needed way more testing before being shipped to live... and yet they got shipped to live without much changes at all :|

KrigjerApr 6, 20171 votes

I will say, I empathize with those players. I first politely ask teammates to not pick Sona, but about 98% of the time they refuse to communicate or just simply refuse to play someone else and I'm forced to ban her.

Why do you think you have the authority to tell strangers what to do?

'Lack of communication' on these boards really translates to 'waah he wouldn't do what I told him'

MagikarpIsBossMar 17, 20179 votes

Even though those people are assholes, they at least have a reason.

she is one of the worst champs in the game

Miku Hime samaMar 19, 20176 votes

Although, are they really being assholes? Like you stated, Sona is literal garbage. Sona is so weak, that knowledgeable players consider picking her the same as intentional trolling. They're being REACTIONARY to a teammate who began trolling first.

If somebody walked right up to you and intentionally spat in your face, I wouldn't call you an asshole for slugging them right in theirs. You were assaulted first, your response is reactionary self-defense. There's no difference here.

This is what Rito has reduced Sona to, where picking her is legitimate grounds for an 'intentional feeding' report. She's not the first champ this has ever been true of, she's not the only one I would apply it to in today's game and judging by the blatantly biased changes that "balance" creates, I seriously doubt she'll be the last.

Leaf on BushMar 17, 20177 votes

I don't think Sona is that bad, but a lot of Sona players are not careful enough or have suboptimal builds, so they just become a liability for their team, which I think earned her this reputation.

Emmy Cha0sMar 17, 201712 votes

You're not entirely wrong. The same conclusion is still found even from the reverse point of view. Like you said, Sona "works" only with cheese builds and yes, her global winrate at times since 4.13 has fallen as low as less than 28% without an artificial scaling item. The fact that it's MANDATORY for Sona to cheese or else her presence becomes a liability can also be viewed as self-proof that she's earned this reputation.

Leaf on BushMar 17, 20173 votes

Cheese builds? What are you talking about? Thats exactly the worthless kind of Sona playstyle i meant. Sona is all about spammable team buffs, shields and heals. Your core should be cdr, a ton of mana/ mana regen, some tankiness, some AP and then you should float around in the middle of your team while mashing buttons and its actually really strong and not even hard to do.... Soraka requires more skill.

You can use her ult to make catches but you don't have to, it's probably better to keep it so you can counter hard engages.

Emmy Cha0sMar 17, 201714 votes

So in other words, the aforementioned 28% winrate version of Sona. I'm sorry for having given you the benefit of doubt, it seems I was mistaken for believing in you.

Sona has the weakest healing spell in the entire game at only 35 HP. To make matters worse, she can't even control who she heals.
Sona has the weakest shield in the game, with: a) the shortest duration, at only 1.5 seconds is less than 1/3 the duration of EVERY support shield in the game except Thresh's, who's is still 4 seconds; b) the shortest range of ANY support spell in the entire game, at only 400 units, it's an entire 100 units smaller than the 4th-shortest range in the game(let's not forget that Sona possesses all THREE of the bottom spots) and then 5th smallest and up are ALL 550 units or more; c) the most mana-intensive spell amongst either shields or heals in the game, it only falls short of Bard's heal, which is negligible due to Bard's mana restoring passive and Sona herself has the 2nd-lowest base mana of any mage support in the game.
Sona is the squishiest character in the game, she will literally die as collateral damage to AoE if she sits in the middle of your team. The enemy team needn't even waste a thought about burning any single targets on her. A "tank" Sona is literally no more durable than a tank minion and by that time in the game, worth less gold than one too.

Leaf on BushMar 17, 20172 votes

Due to this polemic wall of text and your incoherent rambling in your previous post, I just lost any interest in talking to you.

Emmy Cha0sMar 17, 201713 votes

Lol, that's not a wall of text. I've literally made posts that reached the character limit, this was nothing. If you truly think THIS is a wall, then I can understand why your attention span is so short.

SanKakUMar 17, 20172 votes

Her Power Chord is the key to playing her well. Green PC gives a reduction in damage, Purple PC gives a reduction in movement speed, Blue PC gives raw damage. Guess which one people use the most.

Miku Hime samaMar 17, 201712 votes

The one that Rito nerfed its corresponding cooldown the least. Which then Rito proceeded to use this as an excuse to nerf Staccato even further when(surprise surprise) the passive with the highest uptime got used the most.

You should realize many of the people in here are Sona mains/ex-mains that are far more versed with her kit and in her patch history than yourself.

AhristocatsMar 17, 20178 votes

thank you for this, you did the work that i wanted to do as people here can't understand how fcking hilarious sona's numbers are

i wonder how you managed to find a "non-cheese build" win rate on sona, but yes sona's mains no longer play utility Sona Colazor is the highest elo sona main on EUW right now and she doesn't play utility sona anymore, just rush sheen and hextech revolver without sightstone to try to cheese

http://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2Fe45b7f94d2d9492ea62d4b224b09a95b.png&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=425

AWildAPKalistaMar 17, 20176 votes

It's really not that difficult. You take Sona's overall winrate, you take the build-rate plus winrate with each artificial item, the notable ones being Echo and Spellbalde, both Sheen and the completed Lich Bane. Take into consideration the number of games when she has both Echo and Spellblade by game's end, subtract that from the break-even point and calculate the remainder. It's just basic algebra, anybody with a decent education should know how to do this instinctively. You mention Hextech, if I had to do the calculation today, I'd look to see if it has a notable buildrate and if it does, subtract that from the overall as well.

Unfortunately and I say this as a US citizen from AZ, the state with the 5th-worst education nationwide, America's overall quality of schooling is REALLY bad. I believe I heard we're around the 35th least-educated nation worldwide.

OelykMar 17, 20177 votes

Sona is the rare Support that does not have Hard CC on a basic ability, is not tanky in any fashion, does less damage than a mage support and is a chimera who cannot make up her mind in what she specializes in, because she gets outclassed by other supports who do certain things better and more efficient than she does.

Engage, Disengage, Poke, and Heal are how I classify support champions. Sona leans hard towards Poke(Q auto, etc) with minor disengage(ult) and heal(W).

Unfortunately, there are better support champions for all these. Leona and Blitzcrank for engage, Janna and Lulu for disengage, Soraka for heal, and any mage support for poke.

Miku Hime samaMar 19, 20173 votes

This is because your classifications is missing the "generalist" class that Sona belongs to. It also includes Nami and Bard, but both of them are viable picks because they actually do have pre-6 cc, are more durable than Sona and offer higher damage numbers. I can't emphasize enough the part about pre-6 hard CC, this is a trait that's practically MANDATORY on supports nowadays and a large reason why Sona isn't playable, but not the only reason.

OelykMar 19, 20173 votes

My apologies, my understanding of support is rather limited, and from expierience, I know that Sona's "downtime" is rather large compared to other supports.

AWildAPKalistaMar 19, 20173 votes

This is true. In Dumpstering 4.13, the cooldowns on all of Sona's basic abilities were increased, in spite of their bases & scalings also being nerfed. As an indirect result of this, her passive ability which requires basic abilities to charge it ALSO had its "cooldown" nerfed as well, since she can cast fewer spells. Despite her passive ALSO having its bases and scalings nerfed as well. It's also noteworthy that Rito shadow nerfed her passive to not be charged by her R anymore either.

Speaking of, Sona's "ultimate" has one of the longest cooldowns amongst supports, despite having one of the shortest durations and smallest hitboxes. That's even before taking into consideration that its hitbox was then shadow nerfed as well.

Fearless did all of these to further spread Rito's "moments of power" philosophy that they were propagandizing at the time as an excuse to nerf champs that Meddler has a personal hatred of. They knew that by removing a large amount of power from Sona's kit, but condensing the remaining portion into instant "bursts," they could trick the bleating masses into thinking she was still playable and not realizing her overall dps has been reduced to the lowest of the entire support class.

The average silver 4 player isn't interested in facts and figures. They would rather look at a gross figure that's handed to them and not take a second to consider all the variables in an impartial manner. Rito knows this and is able to manipulate those gross figures to make certain Sona never sees the light of pro play ever again. Hence why players with real knowledge and skill realize she's been gutted to be the weakest character in the game and her presence in Masters+ has practically disappeared, despite having had an acceptable pickrate pre-4.13.

NymzoMar 17, 20176 votes

Why Riot need to give her a rework (a proper one this time).

Miku Hime samaMar 19, 20174 votes

Until then though, Sona would be better off if she were reverted to pre-4.13. Rito already knows she was healthy and balanced across all elos with that kit, it could literally be done over a single lunch break and going through the effort of (another) rework will take at least half a year (again,) especially considering the lack of work ethics that Rito employees display and publicly brag about.

I'm constantly disturbed by the fact Rito is PROUD of the lack of work ethics of their employees...

Laz1973Mar 17, 20171 votes

Heal teammates
Do ridiculous AOE poke damage
Make team run fast.
Freaking OP AOE stun that wrecks entire enemy team at baron or dragon.

Yeah who would want that on their team?

AhristocatsMar 17, 201710 votes

{quoted}

Heal teammates

look at the numbers

{quoted} 2. Do ridiculous AOE poke damage

ridiculous? look at the numbers again

{quoted}

Make team run fast.

trash until lvl 15 or 16 with 300 ap

{quoted}

Freaking OP AOE stun that wrecks entire enemy team at baron or dragon.

will hit 1 or 2 dudes because of the width nerf at least in high elo

SanKakUMar 17, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Leaf on BushMar 17, 20172 votes

...but what grasp? WHY?????????????? Just take freaking Windspeaker.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

SanKakUMar 17, 20173 votes

[deleted]

FantasySniperMar 17, 20174 votes

It is. She can apply a shield and the resistance buff to all 4 teammates. No one else can do that without spending an ultimate.

If you're maxing your [W] anyways, why bother with Grasp? If you're not stacking health, you're wasting Grasp. If you are stacking health, you're wasting Sona.