For the love of god stop. If we're down over 20 kills, and the enemy is in our base, quit wasting your teams time and just surrender already, it's not fun when you force others to sit in a match that is already over since someone dc'ed. At that point i might as well just leave the game
xJLx MCHammer4 votesWhat is wasting time? I find that hard to understand. Call me crazy but if my gf sees me playing a game, despite winning or losing, she'd consider it wasting time.
So isn't it better to say that they are wasting your time? Which then can be said that you think your time is more valuable than theirs?
Something to think about
TheGrandAlliance3 votes[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Mpa3Zv0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-07-12T03:00:29.085+0000)
What is wasting time? I find that hard to understand. Call me crazy but if my gf sees me playing a game, despite winning or losing, she'd consider it wasting time.
So isn't it better to say that they are wasting your time? Which then can be said that you think your time is more valuable than theirs?
Something to think about
It is wasting time; if in the event of limited time avaible to play video games per day, one cannot make progress because it is being spent on unprogressive events.
IN other words... if your trying to climb ranked... you know you lost.... you need to move onto the next match ASAP in order to "start the wins again". Playing a losing match IS wasting time.
Alas "wasting time" is a relative concept as you pointed however I assume the OP is referring to logical relevancy of gameplay mechanics thereof.
Indeed it is so...
xJLx MCHammer2 votesIt is wasting time; if in the event of limited time avaible to play video games per day, one cannot make progress because it is being spent on unprogressive events.
IN other words... if your trying to climb ranked... you know you lost.... you need to move onto the next match ASAP in order to "start the wins again". Playing a losing match IS wasting time.
Alas "wasting time" is a relative concept as you pointed however I assume the OP is referring to logical relevancy of gameplay mechanics thereof.
Indeed it is so...
See, I get what you saying, but that would also be if people are playing ranked to actually get to higher division. I have a friend who plays ranked only because the match making is a lot better; his primary goal is to have a balanced game or at the very least have fun.
I do the same, I just play to have fun, if it's boring or bad, I quit and do something else.
With that said, to the oP who's goal is to advance in ranked, it is wasting time but to others, probably not, since they didn't surrender.
TheGrandAlliance3 votes[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Mpa3Zv0,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-12T03:08:14.857+0000)
See, I get what you saying, but that would also be if people are playing ranked to actually get to higher division. I have a friend who plays ranked only because the match making is a lot better; his primary goal is to have a balanced game or at the very least have fun.
I do the same, I just play to have fun, if it's boring or bad, I quit and do something else.
With that said, to the oP who's goal is to advance in ranked, it is wasting time but to others, probably not, since they didn't surrender.
Fair enough... however being that Ranked is intended as a "competitive venue" (and I am personally aware some people don't think this) as a ladder that leads to LCS eventually: As a common courtesy it is best that a match that is clearly lost is surrendered. Not only are you wasting your own teams time... but even the enemies as well.
You cannot learn anything if you 4v5 in a situation that you are far behind in. Is it theoretically possible that lighting stikes twice and you somehow win? Perhaps but it teaches you nothing... in "real PvP" such as "LCS": There is no "4v5" scenario and thus such experience is meaningless.
Alas as I stated previously... people who don't have much time because "they have a life" shouldn't be trolled because people insist upon playing another 10 min of a lost game alas.
3tyson1 votesi have once won a game where we where 2 - 27 behind no jokes 2 kills where mine no oone else had kills we where losing and didnt had a single tower all of a sudden casiopia top started to cary (ps i cant remember howmany towers enemy had but the match really seemed hopeless)
i have also won quite a few 4v5 suure i lost many more but i have won quite a few
(im not trying to sound like a pro for all i know i got carried those games but its stil possible to win)
ive won plenty of games wich we where horrible behind but most of those wich i remember i had a friend at teamspeak and the score would be something like 5 - 15 or 2 - 10 something terrible or even 10 - 30ish 15 - 37ish scores
it usualy goes something like this score goes bad someone is feeeding enemy team is getting feed there so fed that were feeding to we are complaining at teamspeak like this game is so over we cant win this no more fuck this you know it
and we just defend try push the lanes out thats all you focus on push the lanes out avoid fights and they ofcourse get the baron yet even with the baron they hardly get anny further or dont get anny further at all cause your all just defending and avoiding fights splitpushing
so you start to realize these dumb ass are this far ahead and they can not end all you have to do is farm up by splitpushing stall out the game and if they couldnt finish with that big a lead they are deffenetly not going to finish when your teams r equal
i am only silver 4 and at my noob elo this might happen you say but i do watch higher elo games and i have seen these mistakes get made there aswel allot of the times
if your playing rankd and reallyy want to climb you are not going to ff a single game knowing that this is how most people play and if its really lost it will be over soon annyway stop giving up that fast kid
TheGrandAlliance5 votesi have once won a game where we where 2 - 27 behind no jokes 2 kills where mine no oone else had kills we where losing and didnt had a single tower all of a sudden casiopia top started to cary (ps i cant remember howmany towers enemy had but the match really seemed hopeless)
i have also won quite a few 4v5 suure i lost many more but i have won quite a few
Yes... and what percentage of games did you turn it around? More then 50%? I think not. Simply because you can win 4v5 doesn't mean you should try every time. People have lives... they have time and just because 1% of matches you may win doesn't mean the time is justified.
In all the matches you 4v5 and lost you could have instead have retarted a new match... and gotten all your LP back and more. Trying to point out a handful of cases and saying "O I WON ONE MATCH NOW I MUST PLAY EVERY MATCH" is false logic... in the long run average you are wasting more time and effort then you are gaining: A cost/benefit analysis thereof.
stop giving up that fast kid
Me is probably (greatly) older then you...
3tyson2 votesmight be im only 23
but still your giving up way to fast if you really want to win that ranked game than its not wasting time
if the game is really that lost it wont take long if it does takes long than you did have a chance it might be harder sure but you could have carried that if you had still tried instead of gave up
TheGrandAlliance2 votesmight be im only 23
but still your giving up way to fast if you really want to win that ranked game than its not wasting time
if the game is really that lost it wont take long if it does takes long than you did have a chance it might be harder sure but you could have carried that if you had still tried instead of gave up
Lol well being 28 that means I have 5 years on you alas...
I am aware that under some situations you can win 4v5. However unless you are the one who is carrying your matches every time, is far ahead, or if the enemy team shows weakness, you will only be wasting time.
The OP indicated a situation whereas "the game was close to over but not entirely". I assume like they pushed down a lane and are close to winning (need to wait for supers and final). Yes could you just "wait it out" as you indicated? Yes. However that is simply wasting time.
And remember in some situations it is quite possible to 4v5 turtle defense for awhile. Even if you think you are able to stay alive you will lose in the end... especially given certain team comps.
Statistically speaking... being that you are far more likely to lose then to win... spending 10+ min on every 4v5 match situation is a waste of life. If you played 100 matches and even only 10 of them were 4v5 you would be wasting 100+ min of time. Even if you could 2 of these you would still be wasting time.
I know some people, perhaps yourself, "never surrender" and will do anything, however foolish to "try to win" however it begets the nature that it is "better to know when you have lost and to fight again another day" then to "overcommit and lose everything". As indicted before: IT IS a game after all... you can lose every once awhile... you shouldn't take it personally.
However for people who; have limited time to play a game, perhaps only 1-2 matches a day, trolling their limited gametime is trolling indeed.
3tyson1 voteshave 5 years all you want if you have/had a mom and dad your still a kid alas...!
if your losing that game your losing 20 elo and have to spend annother 50 min winning another one + another 50 min to get back wher uyou would be if you had won that one
there for winning a losing games is worth dubble the time and always worth getting you 200% time in only 1game
the game of league is full of player made mistakes and 1 mistake can trow an entire game so you are saying having a lower chance on winning is wasting time this means everyone in the casino is wasting their time
yet some people walk out milionairs other just had a good time and some walk out broke
the only real games lost before ending is the ones where you and your team stop trying even when being outscaled and outfarmed one bad play late game can trow the game
if you really dont have the extra 5 minutes wich shouldnt be longer if its really clearly lost (and if it does than maybe your ass putting some effort in the game instead of stop trying would have changed the game)
than perhaps you should try another video game, cause lol might be to time consuming for you
TheGrandAlliance2 votesif your losing that game your losing 20 elo and have to spend annother 50 min winning another one + another 50 min to get back wher uyou would be if you had won that one
there for winning a losing games is worth dubble the time and always worth getting you 200% time in only 1game
Depends on where you stand with your MMR. A loss may be 14LP... a win may be 24 LP. If you were to quit the losing game and get started on the next match and win you would be up 10LP.
the game of league is full of player made mistakes and 1 mistake can trow an entire game
Very true... but that is assuming:
If you are not to personally backdoor and win yourself, or of course you main support (lol the shame) that isn't going to happen.
so you are saying having a lower chance on winning is wasting time this means everyone in the casino is wasting their time
yet some people walk out milionairs other just had a good time and some walk out broke
LoL I believe age does show here. You heard of the concept that "the house always win" before right? If a majority of people, even a significant minority of people, were to win in casinos all the time they would be bankrupt. If you think "everyone has a fair chance" in a casino you have fallen into their trap indeed.
The MMR system is almost the same way because (supposedly) it is based upon player % of populations in tiers. The amount of LP you get is dependent on everyone else. Bronze... for example is suppose to comprise of 70% of the playerbase. Something like Diamond is only supposed to be 5% of the playerbase.
In other words the MMR system is rigged. Not everyone can be Challenger no matter how hard they try... a dark secret of LoL people tend to forget. If the playerbase "gets better over time" and you remain the same you will fall behind in ranks because it isn't an absoulute ranking system. Therefore trying to win 4v5 games in the long run is simply ego talkin'.
the only real games lost before ending is the ones where you and your team stop trying even when being outscaled and outfarmed one bad play late game can trow the game
Being most 4v5 occur at game start (first 20 min) you will never make it to the late game.
if you really dont have the extra 5 minutes wich shouldnt be longer if its really clearly lost (and if it does than maybe your ass putting some effort in the game instead of stop trying would have changed the game)
than perhaps you should try another video game, cause lol might be to time consuming for you
Perhaps... but the same could be over a long run average whereas you encountered many afks. I have had 30% AFK rate before and if I played 100 matches all the same period of tiem that means I would have wasted time in 30 games with ave of 10+... over 300 min wasted. Even if I were to win 5 of these games I would still be far behind in time.
3tyson1 votesi honestly feel like its harder to win a game where someone goes afk later in game than those where you have an afk at the beginning
my point on the caasiona was that having small ods doesnt mean your wasting your time
TheGrandAlliance2 votesi honestly feel like its harder to win a game where someone goes afk later in game than those where you have an afk at the beginning
my point on the caasiona was that having small ods doesnt mean your wasting your time
Usually these games are 4v5 from the start... if your really good you can carry yourself out. Otherwise you are at mercy of the enemy team.
If it is like b5 match... yea it can be done (assuming your not support main (real supports only plz)) however assuming the MMR does it job and gives you a "fair matchup" you will likely lose.
Late game dc can be managed if you have a good team. Cassio is late game powerhouse... like Nasus can 1v5 enemy teams when played right. If you have someone who can backdoor you also could do that as well.
However... it is far more likely then not you are going to lose 95%+ of the time. Spending time on matches thereof is a waste. And if you main support (like I do)....
GGWP
3tyson1 votesi stil disagree on it being a waste of time (there is no way to not lose elo) so why surrender if you stil have a tiny chance
its true that the chances r smaller but w/e i even buy lotery tickets
TheGrandAlliance1 votesi stil disagree on it being a waste of time (there is no way to not lose elo)
Well even normal games have MMR... of course ranked do. You "lose elo" perhaps; if you are referring to the fact if you already lost so what, by the concept called "opportunity cost". The time you spent doing something else vs playing a losing match that is.
It is a theoretical concept however it is based upon the idea that time==money/capital. If you have x amount of game hours... the cost of playing (a losing game) is y and thus could be avoided. If you don't care about "league point or MMR efficiency" then of course it doesn't matter. However if you are trying to advance in the shortest amount of time spent playing then yes these things add up over time.
its true that the chances r smaller but w/e i even buy lotery tickets
Lol no worries then.... just don't quit your job or whatever too soon...
3tyson1 votesdont quit job oops!
Saint of SlN1 votesI don't think LP works like that. I think it works like this... The elo of both teams is added up and compared, then a certain amount of LP is put on the table depending on the skill difference between the teams. Winner takes LP from the loser. you win or lose more/less LP depending on the match-up. Unless league doesn't actually use the elo system, that would be how it works. Idk for sure though, I could easily be wrong.
Saint of SlN1 votesI'm so glad you mentioned the casino thing. Cuz there was this one time, I had lost everything except my last dollar at the black jack table. Then I made one more bet and holy shit, I won! Then I kept playing for two more hours and now I'm a billionaire GG
3tyson1 voteshave 5 years all you want if you have/had a mom and dad your still a kid alas...!
if your losing that game your losing 20 elo and have to spend annother 50 min winning another one + another 50 min to get back wher uyou would be if you had won that one
there for winning a losing games is worth dubble the time and always worth getting you 200% time in only 1game
the game of league is full of player made mistakes and 1 mistake can trow an entire game so you are saying having a lower chance on winning is wasting time this means everyone in the casino is wasting their time
yet some people walk out milionairs other just had a good time and some walk out broke
the only real games lost before ending is the ones where you and your team stop trying even when being outscaled and outfarmed one bad play late game can trow the game
if you really dont have the extra 5 minutes wich shouldnt be longer if its really clearly lost (and if it does than maybe your ass putting some effort in the game instead of stop trying would have changed the game)
than perhaps you should try another video game, cause lol might be to time consuming for you
ps ofcourse there are some things that really cant be won for example your team mate decites the game can not be won annymore and just goes in 1v5 every time and stopps trying to win
theres a team full of assassins against a couple tanks that r fed there all scaling non of you r
your team mates r troling and stuff
but i think that if you can come up with a really fraud free ranked system that blocks all of this out
your talents are perhaps far to big for a game like league and you should try solving some reall problems like how to stop criminals from being criminals without having to putt them all in jail and stuff
cause honestly i dont think this can really be fixed to everyones satisfaction
TheGrandAlliance1 votesps ofcourse there are some things that really cant be won for example your team mate decites the game can not be won annymore and just goes in 1v5 every time and stopps trying to win
theres a team full of assassins against a couple tanks that r fed there all scaling non of you r
your team mates r troling and stuff
but i think that if you can come up with a really fraud free ranked system that blocks all of this out
your talents are perhaps far to big for a game like league and you should try solving some reall problems like how to stop criminals from being criminals without having to putt them all in jail and stuff
cause honestly i dont think this can really be fixed to everyones satisfaction
Yes... and it is these situations that people are contesting in this thread. People want to be able to leave games without being "Leavebustered" in other words.
Saint of SlN1 votesYou would think so, but when the enemy team is only slightly less shit than your team, it can take forever.
MalzaharAnyLane1 votesI downvoted because you gave a dumb anecdote and narrated it like a stoner.
People like you shouldn't be allowed in ranked for precisely that erroneous thinking, we are not here to provide you with suicidal Alamos or thrown games.
3tyson1 votesracist
FyshinaTux1 votesDude... I'm not even high right now and that was DEEP!!! O_O
Seriously, did you just get out of a philosophy course?
disregardable3 votesThat's exactly what I tell my teammates- "Stop wasting my time". It has nothing to do with their time being of more or less value. I just don't want to play anymore. I'm not going to try to help you, all I'm doing is waiting for the game to end, and I'm letting you know.
Malix Farwin6 votes[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Mpa3Zv0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-07-12T03:00:29.085+0000)
What is wasting time? I find that hard to understand. Call me crazy but if my gf sees me playing a game, despite winning or losing, she'd consider it wasting time.
So isn't it better to say that they are wasting your time? Which then can be said that you think your time is more valuable than theirs?
Something to think about
Well time can be seperated(by normal people) into 3 basic categories. Sleep, Work, Maintenance and Recreation. assuming you sleep a full 8 hours and work 8 hours a day 4 days a week, on your work days you have about 8 hours in the last category assume you speed at least 2 hours on self maintenance you have about 6 hours to do what you enjoy, league games from pressing the queue button to the finish can take 1hr+ to finish. Some games can be ended as soon as 30mins if it a blowout and you win hard or if people are sane enough to surrender games with trolls/4v5 or any other unwinable cases. Then you have the never surrender crowd who even if the enemy is more then double the kills, all the objectives and there isnt a single turret left who will toss that no vote taking collectively a total of 4 hours worth of time just to troll. Time is valuable, it is just people do not realize how valuable it is.
On to the point, he isn't saying his time is more valuable then theirs but the combined 8 being stuck in the game is. Aslo, if for example you think staring at a wall waiting for paint to dry is a waste of time, try playing something that no matter what you do the outcome will be same and it will only serve to make you angry.
TheGrandAlliance1 votes[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Mpa3Zv0,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2015-07-12T05:06:58.973+0000)
On to the point, he isn't saying his time is more valuable then theirs but the combined 8 being stuck in the game is.
Indeed another good point in this argument... I will have to try to remember this one. The Farwin effect that is:)
Awnold2 votesYour always going to be wasting time, this game won't exist one day, and it will be wasted time.
Chespin20132 votesI wish that the surrender vote would be changed. I honestly don't understand on how two votes beats three, where the majority of the team wants the game to end it should happen.
SoundChaosDebug2 votesIf I have a voice in the voting that decides no, who are you to assume what is best for me? If I want to continue playing and finish what I started then I should have the option to voice no for the surrender.
I find it more of a 'waste of time' to have to sit through the loading screen of games where every one votes to surrender as soon as the game hits 20 minutes, 4 votes to yes and I have no word on how it ends.
FARX1N2 votesFor the love of god stop. If we're down over 20 kills, and the enemy is in our base, quit wasting your teams time and just surrender already, it's not fun when you force others to sit in a match that is already over since someone dc'ed. At that point i might as well just leave the game
Leave it then. I've won numerous 4v5 games, because my team didn't want to surrender and we did a great comeback. I always cursed myself for even trying to surrender then :) Even if comeback doesn't happen, you can use this time to improve your skills. Set a goal for yourself, for example: "Till the end of this match I gotta be stronk enough to solo that Udyr" or "Alright, it may seem lost but let's try to close the level gap and hit 14 asap" Such experience is really precious when you fall behind. Or, if you don't want to improve at League, just play that match for shitz and giggles: try to make jukes, sick buff steals, etc. Just find your way to enjoy every League game, even lost one.
emansap2 votesIv'e been playing League since early S2 and Iv'e seen some crazy comebacks. This has rubbed off on me giving me the mentality of "its not a guaranteed loss until you give up" and I still hold that to be true.
FyshinaTux1 votesHonestly, I think it's about [expletive] time that Riot implements a system where you can leave a game PUNISHMENT FREE... if someone disconnects...
At LEAST do it for ranked, where it REALLY MATTERS.
Just my thoughts on the topic.
Senpanda1 votesThere is no reason riot hasn't put this in other than "It could be abused" any system can be abused, it's just a matter of which can be abused the least.
FyshinaTux1 votesIt's not THAT hard... just have like a 5 minute timer, then you choose whether to leave or not. If 2 other people choose to leave, the game just ends, and the person that left in the first place gets a HEFTY punishment.
That wasn't that hard to figure out in all honesty.
Malix Farwin1 votesThere is no reason riot hasn't put this in other than "It could be abused" any system can be abused, it's just a matter of which can be abused the least.
if the punishment was strick for the leave(like losing double LP) then the chances of it getting abused would be greatly decreased.
Android Cowboy1 votesIf I was playing basketball and my team was shite and we were losing by20 points, I'd say "seeya" and go play another game with a different, and hopefully better, team. If any member of said team told me I couldn't leave, I'd laugh in his face and continue on my way. If he tried to make me stay there, he'd be unable to do so, physically. In this game, however, if I want to leave, any or all of my teammates get to play terrorist and hold me hostage in a match I consider unwinnable. 
Saint of SlN1 votesIf the match is unwinnable you should give up and move on. Ranked is a different story IMO. I never surrender in ranked matches. There actual stakes in ranked. Low stakes, mostly, but stakes nonetheless. I play normals for the most part, and even there, I have the same problem as the OP. We have an afk the entire game. The team refuses to adapt to being a man down, so one enemy is left free to roam as much as they want, free farm all day, and snowball like crazy. This causes the entire enemy team to get ahead of us. Then it gets progressively worse and worse. Sure, it's entirely possible to win a 4v5 if you act accordingly. Sadly, I never see anybody actually get it through their thick skulls that we need to change our gameplay a bit to compensate for our AFK teammate. They just whine about getting 3-man ganked all the time, complain that the entire team is roaming, and can't figure out why this is happening. Then the blaming starts.
i'm sick to death of all these stories; "this one time, I totally won a 4v5 even though we were down by 20 kills and lost all our lane towers." That was one time. All the million other times have been a loss. Refusing to FF a match that is clearly lost IS wasting everybody's time. Wasting my time, and the time of everybody on the team. It is not a match you can learn from, it is not fun. I don't understand how you people can argue against this. Every point you make to debate this fact is ridiculous. "all games are a waste of time, your time is not more valuable than mine, i'm totally having fun getting my face wrecked and trolling like an idiot" If you say these things, you're either a liar or an idiot.
I'm under the impression that there are four factors in play...
it's a pride thing. The idea of giving up makes them feel worse than getting stomped. For someone that has never competed in a legit athletic event, LoL is as close as they will ever get. They aren't good at anything, they have no talent, they aren't funny or good looking or smart. They suck at life. They play video games all day, and the lack of difficulty in 90% of today's games has convinced them that they are good at it. Their self-esteem is totally connected with their success in video games. They believe that surrendering even a single match will prove that their life has no value.
They're stupid. They honestly believe that continuing to suck at the game will somehow win them the match. They can't understand why the team is losing so bad. They stick to strategies that have been losing them the match the entire time and refuse to adapt.
They're jerks. As soon as someone on the team pleads for the team to surrender, one or two people see their opportunity to torture someone and get away with it. They do it just to spite you. They have all day to waste on this terrible match. They feast on your suffering, and chase their dorito flavored mountain dew with your tears. They have no life, therefore no time to waste. They have no soul. They are pure evil. The internet is a dark place.
Bard support.
OhthePiplup1 votesIf the enemy is at our base, ending soon, i would rather keep in game and earn more IP at the end.
LadyRenly1 votesI honestly wish in scenarios like these, I could just afk myself. I get bad chest pains if I get frustrated too much, and playing 4v5 against a most likely fed enemy(usually why someone disconnected in the first place) I just get really pissed off because of my TIME that is being wasted. I UNDERSTAND that we must ff@20, but our team won't, but it's not like we're even touching that 20-2 Yasuo.
Valderis Vandala1 votesSurrender shouldn't even be an option, just take it out of the game entirely. Remove the chat window in-game as well.