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Riot, what is the idea behind this Ezreal change?

Unpaladin··36 votes·21,998 views

Right, so I just woke up to find a nerf to Ezreal's ultimate. I'd like to get a discussion of some sorts on why this is the thing that is happening. Something needed to be done, and I'm surprised it's this:

Ezreal Trueshot Barrage (R) cooldown increased to 120 seconds from 80 seconds.

This kinda rubbed me the wrong way the instant I read it. Blue Build is currently a total monster in just about all levels of play, right? So why nerf the ability that is at its weakest when you build Blue? This sounds like the wrong direction to me. I quite enjoy the good old fashioned Triforce Ezreal and his Ultimate was my favourite thing about him. I don't see why other setups should be punished because a specific one became super strong.

Surely there's another way? I wouldn't mind a reduction in early flat damages on his E or Q so that his opponents can have an easier time punishing his stat-less Tear item. Since Preseason his E has gotten a lot more spammable, and his lategame Blue burst with that ability makes it go through the roof while being less punishing than it should be. Maybe there's some crazy method of making Muramana unable to proc on it? At this moment I'd ask for anything.

77 Comments

RiotMeddler54 votes

Ezreals of multiple builds have ended up with much more frequent access to their ults after the preseason changes (Q shifting to a 1.5s reduction from 1s, Essence Reaver getting non blue builds to max CDR, IBG going to 20% CDR for blue builds). That's put Ezreal in a spot where he's got access to his ult significantly more often than intended which leads to plays like just throwing it down lane whenever it's off CD rather than using it more deliberately. Given that, and the way Ezreal's a bit too strong right now, we're thinking that increasing the ult CD's the right call.

EROTIC RAID BOSS11 votes

{quoted}

Ezreals of multiple builds have ended up with much more frequent access to their ults after the preseason changes (Q shifting to a 1.5s reduction from 1s, Essence Reaver getting non blue builds to max CDR, IBG going to 20% CDR for blue builds). That's put Ezreal in a spot where he's got access to his ult significantly more often than intended which leads to plays like just throwing it down lane whenever it's off CD rather than using it more deliberately. Given that, and the way Ezreal's a bit too strong right now, we're thinking that increasing the ult CD's the right call.

What was even the point of changing his q if you make every other spell a longer cd to compensate?

RiotMeddler38 votes

Granting more access to spell casts by Q hits, rather than lower base CDs, both places extra value/reward on using Q successfully and gives Ezreal significantly lower effective CDs while he's in combat than when he's out of it.

EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votes

{quoted}

Granting more access to spell casts by Q hits, rather than lower base CDs, both places extra value/reward on using Q successfully and gives Ezreal significantly lower effective CDs while he's in combat than when he's out of it.

I guess it just seems weird that you guys didn't think he was dependant enough on not missing q as it was

How do you guys feel about blue ezreal these days, you Ok with it being the dominant build again?

RiotMeddler23 votes

Blue Ezreal's a build we're happy to see and balance around. Some risk right now it's too strong, particularly given it adds an additional type of strength to Ezreal that he's traditionally lacked (safe, repeatable CC, that even just as a slow has major impact). Whether we should act on it at present's a topic of ongoing discussion internally.

warpenguin5552 votes

{quoted}

Blue Ezreal's a build we're happy to see and balance around. Some risk right now it's too strong, particularly given it adds an additional type of strength to Ezreal that he's traditionally lacked (safe, repeatable CC, that even just as a slow has major impact). Whether we should act on it at present's a topic of ongoing discussion internally.

its not a healthy build. makes everybody want to rip their hair out

Tengrichan3 votes

{quoted}

Blue Ezreal's a build we're happy to see and balance around. Some risk right now it's too strong, particularly given it adds an additional type of strength to Ezreal that he's traditionally lacked (safe, repeatable CC, that even just as a slow has major impact). Whether we should act on it at present's a topic of ongoing discussion internally.

If you decide to nerf his Blue build than you have to add power/compensate the non blue build variants.Because Ezreal brings zero debuff to the table compared to other marksman and all of his abilities are skillshots AND now after pre-season changes you get punished harder for missing Qs. I mean why even pick ezreal without his blue build?He deals damage.Now if this change goes through his wave manipulation ability takes a hit. I am not against nerfing his blue build or even making it not an optimal build but you have to remember what he brings(or not ) to a team without that build.

RiotMeddler20 votes

IBG's where we're looking to start with changes, rather than Ezreal himself. We'd like to exaggerate the difference between champs with additional armor to scale the zone size and those without. That'll potentially involve the slow dropping off immediately after leaving the area (penalizing smaller zones more), increased armor size scaling and a slightly smaller base size.

Tengrichan2 votes

All right.While that sounds good i don't think it will solve the current issues but we have to wait and see how it turns out. Thanks for the reply.

RiotMeddler11 votes

Reassessing after the change is good, definitely.

For context here this will generally cut the average duration of the slow by 0.25-0.5s for a zone of a given size. Champions building tanky will get a larger zone to compensate, those not building additional armor besides IBG (like blue build Ezreal) should have a somewhat noticeably briefer CC window though.

Its All Skillzz4 votes

{quoted}

Reassessing after the change is good, definitely.

For context here this will generally cut the average duration of the slow by 0.25-0.5s for a zone of a given size. Champions building tanky will get a larger zone to compensate, those not building additional armor besides IBG (like blue build Ezreal) should have a somewhat noticeably briefer CC window though.

then why are you also hitting his ult cooldown, when you are planning to nerf IBG. legit wrong way to nerf him. if you going to up his ult cd that much. W needs to do damage to minions/monsters. or it ult no longer loses damage for how many units it hits. if its on 2 min cd then i want it doing full damage i dont like losing 30% of my damage cause i hit a jungle camp on a snipe.

Jari4 votes

Because it's basically up all the time it feels like. His Q lowers the cooldown of his abilities, including ulti and itself. It's an effective way to just get ult back. Hell, there are times where I feel like it's up more often than Lux ult, and that's saying something.

Blackquill2 votes

W needs to do damage to minions/monsters

No. The only thing that keeps AP Ezreal from being absolutely obnoixous is that he has no waveclear and that you can push him under his tower. If W dealt damage to minions and monsters he would push you under your tower while 3-shotting you. Same goes for the ult damage reduction.

PrometheS2 votes

And that he's squishy, lacks CC. Those are pretty big too.

Blackquill1 votes

Yeah but remember patch 5.14 where AP Ezreal's mana hunger and waveclear problems were solved with Runeglaive. He was utterly obnoxious for 2 weeks. In fact he was so broken that he found his way to pro play, oneshotting everyone from 3+ screens away.

PrometheS1 votes

He wasn't as broken as people thought. His pro-play results were decent but not amazing and his solo que winrate in every ELO bracket never eclipsed 52% for AP.

Blackquill1 votes

Maybe not but he will be remembered the same way as 420 Weedwick and Permadash Lucian, as a super annyoing 2 week balance blunder.

Saixos2 votes

I honestly feel that with the buffs to Sivir and Ashe on the PBE blue Ez will be quite a bit weaker since mainly sivir but also ashe can somewhat punish ez's weaknesses quite nicely. While blue ez is quite strong atm because of the way the meta is, I think that he'll fall out of favor to a degree with this nerf and the other buffs anyway. I'd be extremely sad if blue ez was nerfed to the point where it's no longer a strong viable build on him, as it's been far more enjoyable for me than the previous triforce builds.

Finding Nàmi1 votes

{quoted}

Reassessing after the change is good, definitely.

For context here this will generally cut the average duration of the slow by 0.25-0.5s for a zone of a given size. Champions building tanky will get a larger zone to compensate, those not building additional armor besides IBG (like blue build Ezreal) should have a somewhat noticeably briefer CC window though.

Why not just do what you did to Zilean? Lower Ezreal ulti cooldown to a decent cooldown But make his Q affects only his other abilities not his ulti. ?

Unpaladin2 votes

Sounds like there's promise in that. I'm liking this.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Could you pleas rather increase the difference between ranged and melees useing it and stop forceing everyone to stack 2-3 armor items as they don't do shit without other armor items? It really screws bruiser itemisation that all and every def item now need aditionaly def items to funktion properly.

I'd like to further use Iceborn as single armor item on champs like irelia, jax and skarner, atleast till i get to the 5th or 6th item. It already feels rather weak in terms of slowing without other armor items.

AtaxiChaos2 votes

Why scale with additional armor at all? Thornmail already fills the armor stacking niche. If you really want to restrict it more, have the zone scale with bonus health instead. This would make it much more effective as a general pick for tankier champions while still restricting its use by ADCs.

Dreampod1 votes

I would expect that it is because currently IBG isn't fulfilling its role as a tank build sheen upgrade. Since most tanky dudes are melee ranged and have less spammable abilities it doesn't provide as much benefit to the crew who were intended to be using it. Since it is already good on the champs that are canabalizing it they can't boost the power to make it good for tanky dudes without breaking the game. By shifting some of the power to stats that tanks already have and want it, means that they can find it useful for actually expanding their ability to crowd control without making Ezreal and co go out of control.

Penta Penguin1 votes

Can rammus malphite etc. please have team-fight sized slow field?!?!?!?????????

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

You could also consider making the intensity of the slow halfed for ranged champions... just a thought.

Nahara1 votes

{quoted}

That'll potentially involve the slow dropping off immediately after leaving the area (penalizing smaller zones more)

A long while back, slow zones like Lux's E were given a much faster rate of refreshing the slow with the intent that stepping out of it would remove the slow much faster so you could continue your escape/chase towards the target.

Was IBG not one of the slow zones affected by this change, or are you thinking it should fall off even faster?

Diabolus Draco2 votes

{quoted}

IBG's where we're looking to start with changes, rather than Ezreal himself. We'd like to exaggerate the difference between champs with additional armor to scale the zone size and those without. That'll potentially involve the slow dropping off immediately after leaving the area (penalizing smaller zones more), increased armor size scaling and a slightly smaller base size.

Rather than affecting the zone based on armor, ¿wouldn't it be better to affect it based on whether the user is ranged or not? I mean, it's one thing to have a reliable slow when you're melee and trying to run away/catch the enemy, having the slow limited by your short ranged basic attack and a very different thing when you have a much bigger range and can do it from a safe distance/ignore distances.

You could do it the way you did it with item 3142, either reducing the slow or the time it lasts.

Audiomancy1 votes

You say that, yet you're nerfing Ezreal before IBG.

Sire Hippington3 votes

just that with a cdr-reduction increase by 50%(from1.0 to 1.5sec), and a cd increase by 50%(80 to 120), his ult ends up on a higher cs than befor even if he lands the Qs

And other item builts, while haveing better ult acces than befor, don't seem very strong atm, so nerfing him that way, without any compensation for other builts, especially for ap, is a rather questionable move

Erockandroll2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9IFl2J7N,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-02-12T19:39:34.189+0000)

What was even the point of changing his q if you make every other spell a longer cd to compensate?

Presumably, to stat bind Ez to CDR. The very fact that Ez a CDR reduction mechanic, that works on a flat amount. (Rather than a percentage. Or based on a certain spells CDR) Means that His spell slinging scales exponentially with CDR.

Of coarse how players use their abilities affects game health. Ez using his Ult off CD, for wave clear doesn't do much to make the game more interactive. Especially on a global ult that can take care of an entire minion wave. (Hi Ziggs)

That in mind, I wonder if Ez's ult is in fact impactful enough, if used at the right moment? This might just be me, but I find it hard to do lots of damage with that ult. If there are any minions or monsters in the way.

Wolfram Oxford2 votes

{quoted}

Ezreal's a bit too strong right now, we're thinking that increasing the ult CD's the right call.

Ezreal is a bit too strong right now...Ezreal has been weak forever. Now that he is getting play time he is overpowered? The only nice thing about Ezreal is the range on his Mystic Shot which is 1150 and applies on hits. So now that he can get 45% CDR and a decent amount of AD he is op? If you guys at Riot feel like he needs to be toned down a bit you are wrong, if you feel like encouraging Ezreal players to use their ultimate effectively give it damage compensation or something. Right now I am going to make a post about Ezreal changes that would be nice to see, maybe give it a look.

ChimeiTekinaNasu3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9IFl2J7N,comment-id=00020004,timestamp=2016-02-12T20:31:53.999+0000)

Ezreal is a bit too strong right now...Ezreal has been weak forever. Now that he is getting play time he is overpowered? The only nice thing about Ezreal is the range on his Mystic Shot which is 1150 and applies on hits. So now that he can get 45% CDR and a decent amount of AD he is op? If you guys at Riot feel like he needs to be toned down a bit you are wrong

dat Ezreal main salt. Guessing you're an Ezreal main from that. "now that people are playing him, he is op??". Pretty much, cause people like to play OP champs. Would you play Rumble right now?? No. Would you play Urgot right now?? No. Would you play Zed and Mundo right now?? Definitely. People like to play the stronger champs for easier frequent wins. It's what everyone does. Look at the number 1 Challenger spot right now. Spamming Corki, Kalista, and Ezreal to death. From 1100 to 1200 LP in one day. (Gee, I wonder why Corki got nerfed). Look at Challenger number 2. Zed, Ezreal, Corki, and Lucian.

Remember when Poppy saw no play?? Yeah, cause she was weak. You see her more often now?? Yeah, cause she's stronger and better now. A lot more useful. So again. "Ezreal has been weak forever. Now that he is getting play time he is overpowered?". Preeeeetty much, yep. You got it right. Good job figuring it out.

megaman ox4 votes

As a Main Ezreal... im not that happy... the ult isn't that powerful you know ?, it only helps with wave clearing, so... if you are going to increase its CD, then also increase it's Damage, so it will feel better when you use it ( i hate blue build tho)... you'll see... this wasn't a good idea... and you are going to change back that nerf :)

Vanillite2 votes

Essence Reaver is not an item you get very early on Ezreal . So wouldn't it be better to increase his lvl2 and lvl3 ultimate CD?

Unpaladin2 votes

So the focus isn't on hurting Blue Build's performance, but rather as a followup to Ezreal's previous changes after time has passed? I can dig that; I've felt like his cooldowns have become rather rather outrageous ever since the change. Thanks for the clarification, and I'm looking forward to any other changes you have planned.

AairBear1 votes

Yes. Ezreal's overpowered. Ezreal is overpowered Garen and he is the one you need to be focusing on nerfing. Illaoi I'm sure that these other overpowered Ekko champs can just wait TahmKench while you focus on an Ezreal nerf. (Can you tell I'm not happy about this?

The Taco Kat5 votes

Ezreal has the highest pick rate and #4 highest damage in Platinum. In Diamond, he has the #6 highest damage. He has 40%-50% pick rate across all ELOs, and those champions that you are saying are overpowered... aren't so strong. I can't think of what is oppressive about Garen, Illaoi actually isn't as strong as everyone claimed due to her being pretty immobile even though she has her dash. Ekko and Tahm are exceptions, with Ekko's kit being impossible to balance and Tahm Kench providing too much utility and damage. The latter champions are admittedly strong, but Ekko isn't doing too hot because of the meta changes. Tahm Kench and Ezreal are the ones that have to be focused on right now, and that's that. I haven't seen Kench since 6.3 yet, so I can't determine if his changes were enough this patch.

Noraver1 votes

Really? By this logic you should be nerfing Lucian's ultimate, because he uses it as waveclear too. xDDDDdddddd!!

Ferus and Ferrum1 votes

Lucian can't reduce his ults cd with spamming q and his ult isn't global

Blainezy6 votes

Well, the boost in CD time to his ult makes AP Ezreal pretty much completely useless.

FantasySniper2 votes

How? It's not like it's seriously reducing his damage output. He's usually pretty safe without using his ult anyways.

Audiomancy2 votes

Because AP Ezreal's ult pretty much is his entire kit?

Like, you can Q, and it does shit damage. You can W, and it does ok damage. You can E, and it does ok damage if you aren't next to a minion or something. R though? Everything you have is in landing that.

FantasySniper2 votes

And AP Ez has received buffs in the form of item 3285 and item 3100 .

TotalJerk3 votes

Whenever a champion is using their global ult for mundane waveclear it typically gets a CD nerf. This was the case with Gangplank and Ziggs.

KłedGod2 votes

Nerf Q

Vincenzoooo2 votes

I'm thinking about make his Q can't lifesteal and he's good to go

Unpaladin3 votes

I always thought that it was silly that he could Lifesteal off of his Q. I was going to say it'd punish other setups instead of going right at Blue build, but I actually forgot that item 3139 gives Lifesteal now. I wouldn't mind this, but it'd take more than that to stop the rampage he is currently on.

Darkslayer852 votes

100 would honestly have been a better choice.

Mathix2 votes

Cool, now do the same with lux ult.

SFJake1 votes

Why is this completely ignoring the impact on AP Ezreal? AP Ezreal does not deserve such a nerf.

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