Ekko - An attempt at an actual, reasonable discussion about him.
If you feel like automatically downvoting because I don't say Ekko is Satan and the most OP piece of shit ever and yada yada yada, go ahead. This thread is not for you. It's for actually discussing and trying to be reasonable and think past crowd bias and mentality. For the others, thank you, and read on. :D
Itemization: AP vs Tank His passive: Okay AP ratios. His Q: Absolutely trash AP ratios on first pass, average on return. His W: Great AP ratios. His E: Absolutely trash AP ratios. His R: Decent AP ratios.
As for actual itemization builds: AP: Morello (2400) + Zhonya's (3500) + Magic Pen Boots (1100) + Luden's (3200) + Rabadon's (3800) + Lich (3200) = 17200. Tank: Iceborn (2700) + Sunfire (2700) + Swiftness (900) + Spirit Visage (2800) + Scepter (2350) + Deadman's (2900) = 14350. Difference: 2850 Gold. Enough for an entire 'nother low-tier Legendary item.
Results AP: A lot stronger passive proc (~480 damage per proc in mid-late game as compared to nearly nothing on tank), a much stronger shield which lasts for 2 seconds, and alright damage + healing on his ult (provided you can actually land it if you're trying to get damage). Tank: Almost no change in W/E as compared to AP build due to trash AP ratios. A lot weaker passive proc (190 damage until he actually builds Scepter, if he even does so), a lot smaller shield, a lot weaker damage/healing ult (outside of Spirit Visage, which usually isn't built till later, IBG/Sunfire being the core), but a lot more general survivability. IBG lets him proc even more slows in combination with his passive/Q, while Sunfire provides constant damage, and Deadman's provides more mobility.
Counters to said itemization AP - for AP champions: Athene's, Scepter (situational on some, great on others), maybe situationally Banner. AP - for AD champions: QSS/Hexdrinker (and their respective upgrades), Banshee, Wit's, Spirit Visage, Guardian Angel, Aegis (and its upgrade into Solari) Tank - for AP champions: Basically nothing. Tank - for AD: Youmuu's, maybe Draktharr (situationally), Last Whisper (and its 2 upgrades). Maw is essentially useless here as there's no AP to focus on.
History of said items AP items: Been pretty standard. Scepter (included as it's more part of AP, but is built on tank sometimes) waveclear + strength is debatable occasionally. Lich has seen abuse from certain champions. Zhonya's will always have its Zhonya's debates. Some stuff about Luden's. Tank items: Have been repeatedly noted to be a problem extremely often due to its cheaper price as compared to its survivability. IBG, lord knows it's been abused by almost every champion for decent armor, its decent damage, and most of all, its slow effect. Sunfire's a cheap AoE damage that provides both a lot of health and a good amount of armor. Spirit Visage is usually situational, and really only works because of his ult, but is also relatively cheap, providing a lot of survivability. Deadman's will be Deadman's, problematic as it usually is, despite nerf attempts.
His actual kit Passive: Meh damage, but great slows + MS boosts. Limited to once per 3s per target, cannot be affected by CDR, and only starts counting once the stacks are consumed. Q active: Trash AP ratios on everything except return, which is average at best. Base damages are also trash. Speed of the projectile is trash. Good in lane bullying and maybe teamfights where people can't just immediately run away, but outside of it, pretty much anyone can dodge it outside of flash/E instant first. The slow is more of the issue. Q passive: AP build is trash and is almost irrelevant, so AP scaling is meaningless, not to mention Scepter isn't even enough for just 2.2% increase. Being able to proc it on minions is debatable point. 5% max health at 30% might be debatable, reduction to 2-3% ish would probably be more reasonable. W: Meh shield that will almost never ever get off an actual stun in normal situations unless the opponent literally just fails to move at all because they have no clue what they're doing, or a good placement in a teamfight. The AP ratios are decent, but AP build is also trash for obvious reasons. E: Standard gapcloser/escape. The on-hit application might be debatable. Trash AP ratios, trash base damages. His ult: Returns to his location 4s ago. Global range is debatable, as it can potentially just be used as a teleport sub, but limiting it to 3000 range or so might work (as in, if he is outside of that, the clone will just instantly return to him). Pretty much prevents him from hiding in any sort of chase as his clone will simply follow him to wherever he hid. Actually landing it for the damage outside of just waiting 4 seconds so it'll be at the exact same spot for point-blank is hard. The heal and escape is more of a potential issue. Changing the percent heal to 5/10/15% and maybe increasing the AP ratios, while reducing the amount of time it counts over could potentially help. The untargetable dodge thing is not that relevant, as it's another type of dodge method that multiple other champions have. As for using it to dodge skillshots, any sort of generic gap-mover or Flash can do the same. Pretty much the only thing this stops is maybe 1 tower shot (which is also irrelevant at mid/late game because towers are useless), or point-and-click abilities (also not too common).
Conclusions & his winrate: "WOW WTF RITO" Ekko's winrate is currently 57.41%, placing him as the number one winner of any champ/role (at least according to it, in Champion.GG). Before people start screaming about everything though, take a look at the above actual points.
Sure, people might say his AP ratios are amazing on his passive and shield and ult. But then they also say Tank Ekko is also the strongest most stupid thing ever, except he rarely builds AP at all until towards late game, and even then, the amount he builds is so low it's essentially irrelevant to his scalings. His ult isn't really going to be used for damage in most cases outside of point-blank (ie, same spot or somewhere within just normal camera range without having to pan out, which is impractical). Most of the time, it'll be used for an escape (or occasional substitute for Teleport).
They hate on the damage he can do, which, he can do a fair bit of damage. But if you look at various charts and graphs, the amount of damage he does on average really isn't that much as compared with standard toplaners, and is actually below average. His kill count and assist count are surprisingly average for someone who supposedly is so ridiculously strong and full of utility (which would lend itself to a higher assist count in teamfights). However, his banrate and playrate are also quite high. Now, before you automatically scream that this means OP when put with his winrate, there's also player mentality to think of. There's been a lot of hype and debate about Ekko as of recently, with many people considering him as OP. What does this mean? Whether or not it's actually true, the player mentality believes so, so they will play him more (as they believe he's strong), or vice versa, ban him more for the same belief.
Now, if you actually look at Ekko going about and doing Ekko things, he really doesn't do any sort of instant burst. Riot supposedly made him trying to make him an assassin, but he utterly fails at that, so the assassin label on him isn't even accurate. And with the build he has, if anything, he's just the standard bruiser fighter people complain about. But unlike most others, it's less of damage in his kit, and more of survivability in his kit + a few CCs + the ridiculous extent to which he can abuse tank items (like, once again, multiple other bruiser fighters have).
However, about his CC, his Q is easy to dodge in most scenarios, his W stun will almost never successfully proc, and so his main reliance is on proc'ing it with his passive. Lucky for him, IBG makes it extremely easy to do so. Without any sort of tank or IBG or similar items, proc-ing his CC would be a lot more unreliable, because to get close enough to melee proc it (Q only gives two even if he actually successfully hits both, third being from an E), he'd risk his own safety because of his own squishiness. The strength of the slow and the presence of an MS buff or the MS buff's strength is a point of reasonable debate.
However, once again returning to his actual plays, when he actually fights (with the tank build for the purpose of this scenario), he simply tanks through it as IBG helps him constantly slow the enemy down between it and his passive without any real risk to himself because of his tankiness from said tank items. Sunfire applies constant AoE damage and is also good for tankiness. He can Q/E or E/Q, and then just attack the opponent repeatedly until he'll eventually start proc'ing the W passive, at which point it quickly turns even further in his favor, with the occasional E when it's up for more damage or potentially a W stun if he's managed to get off enough slows thanks to IBG and his passive, at which point, a point-blank Q would most likely seal the enemy's fate.
What does this mean? He's not really an assassin, where it's high risk (supposedly, but that's a point for another day and different champs) in return for high burst meant to instantly delete a squishy or weak target stranded by itself. Rather, he's a tank dueler (which, is problematic because of the tank item abuse and the IBG everyone loves and hates). He continuously attacks a target while simply relying on absorbing their attacks, because even if his damage is trash, IBG makes it easy for him to get close enough to proc his passive (which he can do safely thanks to tank items), and use point blank Qs or Ws. Another thing to note is, he's not the kind of fighter to go in against multiple enemies by himself. He's decent in teamfights thanks to his CC, and he's alright or great at 1v1s once he gets his tankiness from his items, but it's not the "1v5 instantly kill everyone without any risk at all" that some people try to make it out to be.
Sorry, actual shorter conclusion So what does all this mean?
For items: Multiple tank items are far too price efficient and abusable, and with Ekko's AP ratios being trash on his two actual main damage sources (Q bully in early, and then E for chase, with passive being irrelevant because it's risky without tank items and slows from IBG which let him do it in the first place) plus the fact building AP makes him squishy, it is literally a shit decision to build AP on Ekko in almost any case. Why build it for damage when the damage is too risky, provides low damage on over half his kit, and you won't really be able to consistently proc the higher damage passive at all without CC or survivability? Tank items are much cheaper and give tons of survivability and let him just continuously attack until they'll eventually die, between his CC and tankiness, and then the W passive at the end.
For Ekko's classification: He's not an assassin, he's a tanky dueler/fighter.
His kit: Unreliable and trash AP ratios make it not that good by itself, but the presence of said tank items helps him proc the passive without much effort, leading to him being able to actually utilize the rest of his kit. And then a few problems with perhaps too strong slows/MS buffs/% health on ult.
For winrates/playrates/banrates: A combination of item abuse and hype from player mentality.
End result? - Fix the tank items. It's not just Ekko that's abusing them, it's far too easy for them to be abused given their price and survivability. And there definitely has been multiple instances of various champs abusing them (not to mention IBG on Ez as well). IBG itself is a problem by itself because of its very nature, but thankfully it's at least being nerfed somewhat on PBE.
As for his kit, if you really want him to be an assassin, don't give him absolutely garbage ratios and unreliable moves that just encourage him to build tank instead to help proc them more reliably. Give more AP scaling on his Q/E, reduce the strength of MS slows/buffs, perhaps tone down AP shield percent slightly, and do some touchup on % health heal. Make his Q not so absolutely fakking useless outside of lane phase bullying and teamfight because of its absolutely garbage-paced speed and damage. Reduce stun time perhaps on his shield, but actually make it somewhat more reliable than being just a "OH LOOK DON'T STEP IN HERE BUT OTHERWISE IT'S USELESS" with the way it is, or just throwing it into a teamfight and then stepping in without risk of dying because of his tanky build. And perhaps touch up ranges and such on his ult.
Thank you for reading.
