Preview of sejuani changes

Shíny·Nov 21, 2014·9 votes·2,418 views

Ricklessabandon has given a small preview of the changes they're going to test for sejuani (remember not official or complete changes) His tweet

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2_yO_8CMAAqtlz.png:large

28 Comments

Water BreathingNov 21, 20144 votes

The CD of E is almost getting cut in half, so with some CDR it can be really useful. With 40% CDR it's on a 3.6 second CD which is pretty good. The problem is actually getting to 40% CDR though....

I like the buff on W, it really didn't make sense for the health scaling to be on Q in the first place.

Q change is ok, but I don't think it should do that much base damage.

with this, her early ganks are decent, but her level 4-5 ganks will be garbage with these changes.

What they should do is reduce the base damage on Q, change E cooldown to 10/11 seconds, keep the reduced damage, but revert back the slow duration.

ProfDrDeathNov 21, 20142 votes

Getting 40% CdR:

Jungle Item
Frozen Heart
Banner of Command/Locket/DFG

If you take Magus Enchant, you don't even need the 10%-source. Or you can take BoC and DFG for AP Seju.

SmokingPuffinNov 21, 20144 votes

plzplzplzplzplzplzplzplz

People that are calling this a nerf are missing two things:

W gets +total health% damage, meaning that early game Sejuani will hit a ton harder and clear much better.
%hp damage moving to W means that you won't need to Q the minions to get it, which dramatically improves both sustain and safety in the jungle.

Water BreathingNov 21, 20141 votes

plzplzplzplzplzplzplzplz

People that are calling this a nerf are missing two things:

W gets +total health% damage, meaning that early game Sejuani will hit a ton harder and clear much better.

%hp damage moving to W means that you won't need to Q the minions to get it, which dramatically improves both sustain and safety in the jungle.

Yes, her clear (especially her first few) will be much better. But, don't forget that her pre-6 ganks will suffer a lot. She'll do more damage in team fights, but she will be much less effective in disengaging, peeling, and chasing.

A good trade off? I'm not sure.

Also:

Frozen Heart isn't great on Sej because it doesn't have any health, which is what she builds for damage (even more so with these changes because base damage of E is lowered and no one is maxing Q 2nd)

I mean, yeah if you need the attack speed slow it is a good item to pick up, but what if the passive is worthless against the team you're against? Banner of Command is kinda the same thing. I haven't had much experience with it but it doesn't really strike me as a "core" item on Sej, I would just rather get locket because it has double the health.

So... we have a jungle item, that's 10%. We have locket or banner of command, another 10% Frozen Heart which doesn't mesh that well with her kit, especially if you don't need the passive Spirit Visage is 10%, but without any natural self-sustain the passive is kinda wasted. uhhh...Iceborn gauntlet? again, no health but could maybe make up for the slow duration nerf. Ohmwrecker, again, situational

SmokingPuffinNov 21, 20141 votes

Frozen Heart isn't great on Sej because it doesn't have any health, which is what she builds for damage (even more so with these changes because base damage of E is lowered and no one is maxing Q 2nd)

I mean, yeah if you need the attack speed slow it is a good item to pick up, but what if the passive is worthless against the team you're against? Banner of Command is kinda the same thing. I haven't had much experience with it but it doesn't really strike me as a "core" item on Sej, I would just rather get locket because it has double the health.

Not sure why you're replying to me about these. I agree, these are never buys for me on Sejuani.

I disagree that Sejuani should buy health for damage on live. That W aura is easy to avoid and even if you don't it's only 10% of bonus HP over 4 seconds. Much better to buy like item 3001 item 3151 item 3135 if you want to kill people with her.

So... we have a jungle item, that's 10%. We have locket or banner of command, another 10% Frozen Heart which doesn't mesh that well with her kit, especially if you don't need the passive Spirit Visage is 10%, but without any natural self-sustain the passive is kinda wasted. uhhh...Iceborn gauntlet? again, no health but could maybe make up for the slow duration nerf. Ohmwrecker, again, situational

I don't feel a big need to buy CDR on Sejuani, as most of her skills are one per fight. I would rather get AP for killing or defense for not dying.

If you want CDR, I will mention that item 3158 are interesting on her, given how she doesn't really make awesome use of the more standard boot options. Also scaling CDR blues are potentially relevant.

TetrystNov 22, 20141 votes

These are some really nice buffs with a few HUGE problems.

There is no longer any reason to level E over W. This reduces player choice and one of the few levers I felt I had as a Sejuani player to adjust to the rhythm of the game.
The reduced duration on E (almost half duration at max level!) will have a much bigger impact than you think. The reduced cooldown doesn't have any impact early game, and since she won't get the 6 second CD until lvl 13 it will only matter in late game team fights that last longer than 6 seconds. How common are those? When they removed the 10% slow on her autos I thought that wasn't a big deal, but then I played her. Her identity was compromised hugely in her original rework (perhaps necessarily for game balance) and without this powerful slow I don't see how she belongs in the Freljord trio anymore. I don't see why she should have an ice theme at all if all it amounts to is a 1.5s slow and some particle effects.

So no, these aren't nerfs. An AOE that does %max health damage is huge, but I doubt it will be enough to let her compete with Amumu, whose kit is insanely similar to hers if you look at it. These changes will, however, change her core build, her play style, her pre-6 ganks, and (possibly) her role in a team comp. At least they're moving her %health damage to W, it really didn't belong on Q.

WeakdayzzNov 21, 20143 votes

This is def. looking like a nerf, I don't like it.. at all

Health stacking hasnt been a thing for a while. Her dmg dealer W is definately going to be weaker i think. But it will be pretty good for going straight tank, so I might be wrong. Top sej def. wont be a thing anymore, not that it really was lol

ProfDrDeathNov 21, 20142 votes

Flail's Initial hit will be stronger on anything with more than 1000 max HP. For example, certain jungle monsters. Flail's continous damage should be stronger, too, due to scaling on ALL HP.

TrotongoNov 21, 20143 votes

this is a fucking nerf, that change on e is atrocious, as if her jungle wasn't close to impossible already they bring this shit up, meanwhile the top junglers remain the same for fucking ages.

Knight DevoutNov 21, 20143 votes

The only thing I don't like is the duration on permafrost(E) fixed at 1.5 seconds, as it looks already too short as it is.

However,as others have stated, with 40% CDR it would have 3.6 seconds cd.

TendrianNov 22, 20143 votes

As a Sej main, I gotta say I'm pretty excited about most of these changes, however I have some concerns as well.

I can't help but feeling that her ganks are going to get quite a bit weaker. Despite the reduced cooldown, you'll still only be able to use E once per gank, and I doubt that the bonus dmg she gets will make up for almost 1 full second of missing cc. Since you are most likely going to max W first in all situations from now on, the slow will be weaker as well.
The initial W hit can be pretty unreliable at times due to the overly long animation. Especially during chase situations it sometimes acts wonky and starts the animation, but then cancels itself because the enemy runs out of range. It doesn't really matter right now, but if Riot goes through with this and puts a lot of damage on the initial hit, then some cleanup of the animation would benefit her greatly.
I've got to say I'm not too stoked about the E changes. Not just from a gameplay perspective, but having strong cc/slow has always been kind of Sejuani's schtick... I don't know how I feel about only having a 1,5sec slow outside of her ult.

chumblerNov 22, 20143 votes

Riot doesn't want Sejuani to be played, which is particularly odd given that they've got a skin coming out for her. I guess not even skins coming out can break the Law of the Chosen Champions.

Jeddy017Nov 22, 20141 votes

Well,they still have to earn some cash.

jjookkeerrNov 23, 20143 votes

that nerf

DropFillNov 21, 20142 votes

Lol wtf, this is such a stupid nerf.

Rinky DinkyNov 22, 20142 votes

The people saying this is a nerf cant read or something. This is undeniably a buff. More damage, better tank scaling, better clears, lower cd on e (Perma-slow if you can keep stacks).

What is all the bitching about. Right now as sejuani, if I land my q, its a garunteed flash/kill.

With these buffs, its only gonna be better.

Rinky DinkyNov 22, 20145 votes

And Then I noticed im the one who cant read. This "Buff" is really bad. Really Really bad. If they wanted to focus the damage on her w, that is fair.

But Nerfing her E like that? What in the hell? I didnt even notice that her E was losing slow time AND Damage.

Riot is starting to anger me. I mean, recently some of the nerfs and "Reworks" (Cass please) they have put out have been complete rubbish.

TendrianNov 22, 20141 votes

While I'm onboard with you on the Cass hate train, these changes really don't look that bad. Yes, the impact of her E will go down, and her ganks will propably suffer quite a bit, but you get tons of damage on her W in compensation. If we assume you have 4k+ health late game, her W aura will deal ~640 dmg aoe - and that is without even taking ap into consideration. That, together with her low cd on E will finally make her more than an R bot in lategame teamfights.

Rinky DinkyNov 22, 20141 votes

Yeah I am probably overacting. Someone did the math and she is gonna do alot more damage mid and lategame right now, but her early level ganks are gonna suffer alot. Once she hits 6 tho, its pretty much a kill depending on if her laner follows up.

Rock RockburghNov 22, 20141 votes

Yes, sure, the E is losing damage and slow time, but it's also losing almost half its cooldown. With max CDR, you'll be able to keep it up 40% of the time, which is still pretty strong. (Compared to 37% previously.) Lower cooldown also means you can trigger it more often, which means the damage triggers more. Total mana cost will be higher, but damage and slow efficiency will also be higher.

The ArchiveNov 22, 20142 votes

I'm not seeing anything good here. Don't make this another thing like Cass, Rickless.

GrethorianNov 22, 20142 votes

For all of you who think that is a buff:

The % enemy hp damage just shifted from q to to w so no change.

W initial hit loost 40 – 120 Damage Q gained 40 – 100
so – 20 Damage overall.

W AoE lost 40 – 80 Damage and gained 12% base Hp and 2% bonus hp so after level 4 you get the 80 damage back and gain 185 Damage (+2% bonus hp) at Level 18

E Lost 80 Damage and 1 Second slow for the cooldown.

So at 18 you have 185 – (20 + 80) = 85 Damage more

85 More damage that can be avoided by simply walking or flashing or kalistaing away VS

100 instant damage at the begin of a fight and 1 second slow to hold people in the AoE

For me its Clearly a nerf.

aperson1Nov 22, 20142 votes

I don't really like the slow duration reduction on E. I would gladly trade extra base damage on abilities for extra CC, on a tank that is primarily known and picked for her CC. Still, this does fix one of the issues I had playing Sejuani, which is that your E is counterintuitively the best ability to max compared to the other two. It'll probably help her first clear in the new jungle too.

Overall a buff, just not in the places I would expect.