Graves cigar got removed :(

Shíny··290 votes·318,672 views

Rito why??? Please keep part of graves personality and don't remove his cigar.

574 Comments

RiotRiotSilver217 votes

Hey all,

I can give a bit of context on why the cigar was removed. Essentially, there was a significant risk of censorship or age rating problems in various regions based on the depiction of tobacco usage. This kind of thing is pretty strictly enforced in parts of the world, and in this case it became clear that we needed to remove the cigar in his splash. The relevant laws sometimes apply differently depending on content type, which is why something that might work in peripheral content like a cinematic may not work in content like splashes that are tied specifically to the core game.

I can also speak a bit as to why we wouldn't create multiple splashes in response to this kind of issue. One of our goals moving forward with splash art, compared to how things have been done in the past, is to create content for all regions. In the past we've created modified or entirely different splashes based on the needs or appeal of certain regions, but this is something we've been working to change moving forward. Where possible, we want to stay away from sharding the game unnecessarily for different regions. It may seem like a small thing in this case, but we believe that being consistent with this artistic approach best allows for a common community and common stories for players to experience and share with each other.

-Silver

EMOFRATPARTY5 votes

Write to your local ESRB representative, folks!

JacopoPeterman21 votes

It's not NA censorship that they are worried about, adding a cigar to Graves wouldn't suddenly make the game rated M

Drunk Superman134 votes

just dont touch irelias ass and we'll be fine

Shuri23 votes

But I want to~!

RiotSlumber Jack196 votes

touch ass, got it

Remlap122372 votes

Interesting. Janna and Evelynn can be half naked in their splash arts, Miss Fortune, Sona, and Ahri can have breasts the size of watermelons, but if Graves has a cigar everyone flips their shit? I remember back in the good ol' days when anything suggestive or sexual in it was given the ESRB banhammer.

Well it's good to have a red clarify the issue at least.

Hellioning52 votes

Morality, especially morality that gets written into law, is never very consistent.

For example, Graves shooting someone in the face, repeatedly, until they die? Okay! Graves smoking? No! Bad!

Jakethenight26 votes

Relevent.

Electro52213 votes

https://imgflip.com/i/dxh4e

Thought I'd finish the job for you.

FUZZB0X633 votes

Gun ownership is also highly restricted and outright illegal in some countries that play league of legends. Perhaps we should also remove Graves' gun and replace it with something less offensive.

I guess you better take out Gragas' beer too, while you're at it. I do believe that alcohol consumption is even more restricted than tobacco so let's take that out.

Also, all the murdering and killing in the game. That might kinda be age-restricted in some countries so we should axe that.

All the cleavage too. All that sex is pretty taboo in some countries. I'd say there is a "risk of censorship or age rating problems in various regions".

Ahri literally seduces men, has intercourse with them, and then murders them. Call me crazy but that might be taboo somewhere. Better get on it!!

Additionally, I think it's a great idea to keep Graves with that same facial expression and "cigar chewing" grin. The art looks good and whole, and his facial expression makes 100% sense without the context of a cigar. Doesn't look lazy at all!

Graves

OxBaker24 votes

As a parent that plays and has younger kids running around, I wouldn't mind if Riot decided to clean the game up a bit. Downvote away!

U60225 votes

As a parent that plays and has younger kids running around, I wouldn't mind if Riot decided to clean the game up a bit. Downvote away!

The game is rated T for Teen for a reason. Just don't let them play it until they're of age. This logic is like: "Oh I have children so NO ONE in the world should be able to have alcohol."

pr0tat010 votes

Read what he posted, he's a parent and has younger kids running around

Scumble125 votes

Yes? And?

Kids running around don't affect the rating. The rating is based on those for whom the game is intended, ie. the people who will be playing the game. That's the parents themselves.

Gallowgrim173 votes

Sorry, but your kids are not an excuse to screw with the game. BE a parent, and play out of sight if you don't want 'em seeing it.

I grew up just bloody fine watching freakin' Looney Tunes. Smoking, drinking,and hilarious amounts of violence.

Spare us the "think of the children" nonsense, pard.

mistadubble50 votes

Let's be real, dude. Most parents do not look or care about the MSRB rating of the game their children play, as long as the game serves as a babysitter. They allow their children to play adult rated content and moan that the game is too violent. Education is too damn low #Kappa.

RoyaiChaos27 votes

Is the cigar really worth hundreds of people not being able to play?

Jakethenight184 votes

Yes.

masterdragon48149 votes

Its more a question of where does the line get drawn? The logic being used to remove the cigar can be used just like FUZZBoX mentioned in his above post to censor other parts of the game.

Is the cigar removal going to affect game play? No

Are you potentially including more people by removing the cigar? Yes

Is there a potential for other things to be censored that fall well within the Teen rating that the game holds? Also Yes, and that is where the majority of this complaint is coming from.

It seems to be a little overly cautious when, like FUZZBoX said, almost every part of this game could be "strictly enforced" in some countries, and then what happens to the game?

RoyaiChaos10 votes

The thing is, that IT'S JUST A CIGAR. If it was something else, like if suddenly Grave's was shooting bubbles, then I would have a problem. But the fact is that it's just a cigar on his splash art. They aren't even taking it away from his as a character, but only one picture of him. One detail on one drawing isn't worth it.

I agree with you, there should be a line, but a cigar isn't it.

masterdragon48162 votes

The character as far as I am aware NEVER had the cigar in game. The splash art is the only time people have seen it (besides the video) so taking it away from the splash art is the same as taking it away fromt he character.

You have to admit that the cigar added a lot to his character. We are all picturing the Graves from A New Dawn. He was straight up awesome in it, and the cigar added to the character and how we perceived him. It wasn't just a cigar; it was part of the flair and draw of the character. It turned him into Clint Eastwood, at least in my mind.

The splash art is suppose to epitomize the champion and represent their character, etc. People are in an outrage and consider it such a big deal because this iconic part of the champion was removed for a reason that, while economically a small argument can be made, ultimately doesn't hold up.

The Oasis35 votes

I guess you better take out Gragas' beer too, while you're at it. I do believe that alcohol consumption is even more restricted than tobacco so let's take that out.

But it's not beer, it's grape soda obviously.

Derpus the Fifth40 votes

The least you could do is give him the old 4Kids Sanji treatment and let him suck on a lollipop.

Superguest15 votes

NO

Lunar Lightning13 votes

Hey all,

I can give a bit of context on why the cigar was removed. Essentially, there was a significant risk of censorship or age rating problems in various regions based on the depiction of tobacco usage. This kind of thing is pretty strictly enforced in parts of the world, and in this case it became clear that we needed to remove the cigar in his splash. The relevant laws sometimes apply differently depending on content type, which is why something that might work in peripheral content like a cinematic may not work in content like splashes that are tied specifically to the core game.

I can also speak a bit as to why we wouldn't create multiple splashes in response to this kind of issue. One of our goals moving forward with splash art, compared to how things have been done in the past, is to create content for all regions. In the past we've created modified or entirely different splashes based on the needs or appeal of certain regions, but this is something we've been working to change moving forward. Where possible, we want to stay away from sharding the game unnecessarily for different regions. It may seem like a small thing in this case, but we believe that being consistent with this artistic approach best allows for a common community and common stories for players to experience and share with each other.

-Silver

i dont think allowing NA to have the cigar is going to hurt anyone...seriously this is complete bs just like kats christmas skin

masterdragon4819 votes

No offense intended, but it seems like you didn't read the part where they (Riot) is trying to release all of the same things for ALL the regions, not just NA.

Oberic19 votes

So, being that Riot is in NA, why not make the game as if it's in NA, rather than China or some shit?

If I had known how things would be thanks to damned tencent, I would have never started playing LoL in the first place.

Zarxis42 votes

-Silver

Are you going to remove Gragas' booze barrel, then?

I'm sick of this censorship bullshit. Removing skeletons was bad enough. If Riot can make so much money by pandering to other countries' little censorship qualms, it can afford to make localized versions of models, splash arts, etc.

Don't give me bullshit about "oh noes, dat would take so much teimz away from develerpin' moer stuffsz 4 u." No. Riot has more than enough money to start up an army of localization teams.

I'm not a fan of tobacco (I had a close relative die from smoking-induced lung cancer), but I can see that this is complete crap. Is this more pandering for the precious Chinese playerbase?

Wezz13 votes

-Silver

Are you going to remove Gragas' booze barrel, then?

I'm sick of this censorship bullshit. Removing skeletons was bad enough. If Riot can make so much money by pandering to other countries' little censorship qualms, it can afford to make localized versions of models, splash arts, etc.

Don't give me bullshit about "oh noes, dat would take so much teimz away from develerpin' moer stuffsz 4 u." No. Riot has more than enough money to start up an army of localization teams.

I'm not a fan of tobacco (I had a close relative die from smoking-induced lung cancer), but I can see that this is complete crap. Is this more pandering for the precious Chinese playerbase?

insaiyanbacca85 votes

i guess you could say, "close but no cigar"

1st HanarSpectre81 votes

Because people believe that showing a fictional character smoking is actually worse than Hitler. I'm not surprised Riot decided to cower and remove it.

Murder, A-ok. Smoking, what are you satan himself?

dialMARK4acti0n9 votes

I think it's more because of the fact that a lot of young people (13+) play this game, and YES cigars make you look badass, but for young people, they'll probably have a puff to try and look as badass as Graves or something. I know the difference but others may not.

As in regards to the death thing... who knows?

Chris Hurricane50 votes

I don't think that holds much water. Graves is one of many champions who would make a terrible role model -- I mean, this is a guy who used to be a con man and now his only goal is revenge against Twisted Fate. Not the kind of character people should be looking up to.

I mean, by that logic, why does Gragas exist? We've got a character whose sole goal in life is to find booze strong enough to get him completely drunk, and he gets a pass, but a guy smoking a cigar (and for whom it'd be in-character to do so) doesn't? That's one hell of a double standard if that's the case.

KimTheNukeJongUn21 votes

That's on the parents then to teach their kids not to emulate what fictional characters do. The game is rated appropriately which even says it has tobacco usage.

Fashion Mage21 votes

Rito reminds me of 4Kids right now. They should make Graves' gun invisible while they're at it.

Paravani40 votes

Huge loss of respect. This is very disappointing.

Gross33 votes

Are they going to remove the cigar from the cinematic as well?

The Chin32 votes

wow he looks significantly less cool without the cigar

pro crastinat0r28 votes

Badass levels decreased by 1000%

Delirious Wizard22 votes

I think they removed it because Graves doesn't have a cigar in game. I would much rather they add one to the game then remove it from the splash art though.

Bandanamonium17 votes

This is really disappointing. I can't believe this is the same Riot. I mean... I'm certainly going to be playing the game still but I'm just depressed. Let me try and explain why.

Even though this is such a minor thing it just doesn't make sense. Their are many mature themes in this game and they take out a cigar? Remember the removal of bones and things sensitive to the Chinese audience? I was disappointed but I eventually got behind it. I mean it's just one thing. I convinced myself that it wasn't that important to the game's art style and was worth not upsetting many people.

The thing that irks me the most is that the cigar has been a cool part of his character that you've given him. The cinematic that he's in has the cigar complimenting his "I'm not worried." attitude. With the removal of this I am worried you may be starting down a path that is gonna lead to further censorship and removal of your original art direction and feel of the game. Gragas's brew is gonna be punch (to be fair it practically is already), Talon isn't gonna leave a trail of blood, and Miss Fortune is gonna wear a raincoat.

Also, I can only imagine what is going on at Riot. "I think people will notice the cigar is gone." "They will get over it." "It looks like people don't like the change." "It doesn't matter."

You really dropped in on this one Riot. Countries want to censor everything. I can only imagine the regions who are bothered by the tabacco use are also bothered by alcohol, murder, and sexually revealing outfits. All this to deal with this broken ratings system and under the guise of artistic consistency.

Genreninja16 votes

now he's 15% less cool :(

Squirvizard6 votes

now he's 15% less cool :(

... 90%, pls get it right. >:l

Rikari12 votes

Keep the gun,remove the cigar. smoking is killing our youth faster than guns are.

Qube13227 votes

"our youth" is killed by cars more than guns. Remove cars.

RoyaiChaos12 votes

The censorship laws in some place may actually ban the game because of the cigar. Is having the cigar really worth several hundred players not being able to play? Is it really worth Riot losing money and producing less content? Is just one, not really noticeable part of one drawing, really worth all that?

Riot has no control over laws, however stupid they may seem, and it's not fair to punish the players of those regions because "I want mah cigar". Yes, it was a pretty big part of his character, but he's still Graves without it, and it's not like they completely removed it, they just removed it from ONE drawing.

Oberic33 votes

Yes, it's worth having those people not be able to play it. Absolutely.

One thing goes, then another, then another and another. An endless cycle of censorship and contortion, to fit our game into their molds.

It is worth it.

Mechanics removed, one at a time. Mana burn, dodge and others.. silences are slowly going away. Splash art and models changed, no more skulls because in china "bones too spooky". Limited Edition skins re-sold (bloody liars.), to make some quick cash, which of course was poured directly into "muh esports!"

Which straw will break you?

Padagi9 votes

Definitely unnecessary. They should put out a statement about why this was being done... Localization to international markets?

It has a rating that supports having the presence of tobacco, so I don't think they'd need to do so for North American audiences.

Drogmyre29 votes

They have a champion entirely based on alcohol. I don't think a cigar should be even remotely a problem.

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