Bloodrazor needs rebalance

SlashStriker·Sep 12, 2018·4 votes·4,549 views

Old: basic attacks does 4% target max health as bonus phys damage suggestion: basic attacks does 30 (+3% target max health) as bonus phys damage

With Bloodrazor the only thing I feel I am getting is attack speed with 0 damage considering that Bloodrazor is applied to basic attacks only and abilities have 0 benefit from it. Meanwhile when it comes to farming how much damage is 4% of a small minion/monster max health?

Blade of the Ruined King does 8% target current health but also 15 minimum damage and 40 AD. Bloodrazor does 4% target max health. If that target is a minions or monster I would barely do any damage to it because I got 0 bonus AD and 0 minimum damage.

The item should be rethinked and rebalanced so you do something early game, while being less oppressive lategame but 4% target max health is not a lot considering it's physical damage so buy armor to counter it.

14 Comments

Linna ExcelSep 12, 20183 votes

50% AS is nothing to underestimate though. One problem I have with the item is its one of the few on-hit effects that don't apply life-steal. Maybe that's a place riot can look for a small buff to the item.

As for the on hit damage, I think it's fine. The damage is fair against all and it scales best against tanks. IMO it's a great second item on Vayne if she's not going crit. Vayne + item 3153 + item 1419 + item 3124 = crazy damage that makes Phreak happy.

SlashStrikerSep 12, 20181 votes

It's Fine? Is that your final build? item 1042

Cause it's what you get when you build bloodrazor

Like I mentioned Bloodrazor is really bad compared to Bork. Bloodrazor gives only attack speed and some damage (physical btw that is countered by armor)

Blade of the Ruined king gives you so much more

25% attack speed 40 Attack Damage 12% lifesteal. Passive procs Lifesteal basic attack does 8% target current health with minimum 15 damage to minions and monsters BORK does 55 damage minimum damage to minions and monsters

Bloodrazor you have to cheese between [1] True damage per second + damage reduction [2] true damage with speed boost and slow target

Bloodrazor is several times WORST than BORK. BORK fits the sustain role so much better than Bloodrazor. Bork gives you sustain that allows you to apply the damage that you need to apply as sustain fighter. If you have 0 tankyness and sustain you do nothing since you cannot apply this low amount of damage.

Linna ExcelSep 12, 20181 votes

You get 50% AS and do 40 physical damage per 1000 the champion you are hitting has. This gives it a lot of damage potential that scales as the game goes on.

I think that bloodrazor's biggest issues are there aren't more champs that scale with attack speed particularly junglers and games are still a little too quick for it.

SlashStrikerSep 12, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=95UKuaMR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-09-12T20:27:17.939+0000)

You get 50% AS and do 40 physical damage per 1000 the champion you are hitting has. This gives it a lot of damage potential that scales as the game goes on.

I think that bloodrazor's biggest issues are there aren't more champs that scale with attack speed particularly junglers and games are still a little too quick for it.

You do 15 damage to minions and monsters with 400 health. It ain't fine

So basically Riot could change bork to give more AD and more damage to minions and monsters so ADC can build it more often but jungle champions who build bloodrzor can suck and being useless for the first 20 minutes of the game?

TerchioSep 13, 20181 votes

Jungle items aren't supposed to be full-fledged items. They're supposed to give support in the jungle while being a cheaper version of a full item, more or less. A couple differences stick out, but that's the general idea.

Also, BotRK has 8% Current Health damage, Bloodrazor has 4% Maximum Health damage. Averaged over the lifespan of a champion, assuming attacking 100-0, those are the same amounts of damage. As far as assassination damage goes (last hit), Bloodrazor has the advantage, barring base damage.

The cost efficiency is simply not that bad, so long as your champion uses basic attacks well. Try comparing item 1400 item 3508 .

SlashStrikerSep 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Jungle items aren't supposed to be full-fledged items. They're supposed to give support in the jungle while being a cheaper version of a full item, more or less. A couple differences stick out, but that's the general idea.

Bloodrazor: 50 Attack Speed, 4% target max health as bonus phys damage

How the hell 4% target max health supports me as a Bloodrazor jungler? The only thing I get is attack speed and % max health bonus phys damage does not exist. I probably be better if I buy 5 dagger are far less expansive than bloodrazor and give me far more than what it does

Someone that does only damage and you take away the damage from that champion, then that champion will do absolutely nothing in ths game so on-hit champion in the jungle is badly supported

There are so many games I am completely useless for 15-20 minutes

TerchioSep 30, 20181 votes

Fell off for a bit. I'll toss in more info.

How the hell 4% target max health supports me as a Bloodrazor jungler?

8% Current Health is the same exact thing when going 100-0 on a monster. BotRK isn't exactly a common jungler item, but plenty of junglers use both well. If your jungler doesn't, don't get it.

I probably be better if I buy 5 dagger are far less expansive than bloodrazor and give me far more than what it does

Bloodrazor is literally the fastest attack speed item in the game, tied with item 3115 and technically behind a stacked item 3124 , but includes the essential Tooth & Nail passives and is much cheaper. If you don't do well with Bloodrazor, chances are you aren't going to do well with any attack speed build on your champion.

Warrior, as an example, is 60 AD with multiple items out there with 70 or 80 AD, and just a trickle of CDR on top. Echoes 80 AP is mid-high, but the passive is a majority of the rest of the damage output, and doesn't scale well. Bloodrazor, meanwhile, is high on AS, and the passive scales all game long with additional sources of AS as well as by enemies simply leveling and gaining more HP.

I'm not a huge fan of Bloodrazor myself, but I don't waste my gold on any of the jungle items, actually. they're not meant to be 2.7k in stats, they simply aren't. They're meant to be about 2.2k, and then a Smite upgrade and jungle sustain/exp bonuses. Full jungle item upgrade has always been a noob trap, don't single out Bloodrazor. If you aren't getting champion kills with Smite, you aren't getting the fullest of your build with any of the jungle item upgrades, period.

Daddy AntsOct 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=95UKuaMR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-12T20:04:17.383+0000)

As for the on hit damage, I think it's fine. The damage is fair against all and it scales best against tanks. IMO it's a great second item on Vayne if she's not going crit. +++= crazy damage that makes Phreak happy.

It really isn't.

Jaygo41Sep 13, 20182 votes

Whenever someone says "The On-hit jungle item needs to be re-looked at"

In my mind it's akin to someone saying "We need to give communism another try"

It just has gone so poorly so many times that you wonder why people don't reconsider what they're saying...

HOWEVER, hyperbole aside and with original post actually read, i think this might actually be a pretty solid idea. Perhaps this item would eventually get sold at some point in the game for something a little better, but I think since jungle items are usually stat sticks, especially in the early game, this would be a good change.

Unfortunately, you may have to dial back Master Yi, but this change would be an experiment i'm willing to run.

The OasisSep 13, 20182 votes

Yi needs a rework anyways.

RagnaveilSep 12, 20181 votes

Thats not a bad idea. My only issue is that I don't have that much knowledge of what could break this change or what will try to abuse it, etc.

ProfirixSep 12, 20181 votes

Typically the only champions that want bloodrazor also want to clear fast, so I have no issue with buffing it so when it is completed you can clear jungle faster. FFS they nerfed Shyv how many times now.