WHY THE FUCK IS IT ALWAYS BOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTt

NGNL Asian··41 votes·3,006 views

IT"S ALWAYS BOT THAT LOSES. wtf

83 Comments

zkitt1ez14 votes

its actually more simple. Most adcs and support suck, thats it. Add firstbloodtower and u draw all the focus to the weakspot with junglers and tp.

InstaPoppy9 votes

As sup main, often we're not even doing that bad and the lane is pretty lame. But as you said bot is the best tower for the firstblood gold and bot is located near drake so it gets a stupid amount of attention from jungle and sometimes mid.

GGLineaR1 votes

maybe if they moved dragon and baron further down the rivers it'd change that?

No, because then you'd get more people camping mid.

ANOTHER MAP REWORK!

InstaPoppy2 votes

It's honestly fine right now, bot lane just does their best not to die even when being camped. And the rest of the team can profit of the fact that bot gets most pressure and get work done.

GGLineaR1 votes

I guess. I just hate to see one lane get pressured so hard, makes the Supp and ADC's job even more stressful.

inplane8 votes

Bot lane is the most vulnerable. They're performing a balancing act betweem keeping two enemies (Sometimes three if you count the Jungler) in check and keeping Dragon safe throughout the first 15 minutes of the game. If they get ganked, they're screwed if they don't receive help in return because they're forced to miss waves. That's how it works. It honestly doesn't help that they're innately gimped in terms of EXP. This doesn't cross many people's minds because most of them mainly play Mid or Top amd don't even look at Bot lane until 30 minutes into the game where they have to defend inhibitor towers.

Weasel Kensei3 votes

Combine that with double the chance of an autofill, the weakest tower, and you have a target lane.

SanKakU2 votes

I completely disagree. Bottom lane is the least vulnerable position on the map because you don't have a lane partner anywhere else. The closest partnership besides that is jungle and middle lane since middle can usually go wherever the jungle is. Top lane is the most vulnerable IMHO...after all, it's far away from the support, the middle lane guy is a whole other lane over, and the jungle on both teams could be anywhere. If you're playing on red team, maybe your jungle ally never comes top or if he does, he wastes time doing it because his jungle pattern involves skipping Krugs...

inplane4 votes

{quoted}

I completely disagree. Bottom lane is the least vulnerable position on the map because you don't have a lane partner anywhere else. The closest partnership besides that is jungle and middle lane since middle can usually go wherever the jungle is. Top lane is the most vulnerable IMHO...after all, it's far away from the support, the middle lane guy is a whole other lane over, and the jungle on both teams could be anywhere. If you're playing on red team, maybe your jungle ally never comes top or if he does, he wastes time doing it because his jungle pattern involves skipping Krugs...

It's the fact that two people are put into Bot makes it very vulnerable. Getting Mid or Top behind in Gold and EXP doesn't have as much of an impact compared to getting Bot behind in Gold and EXP. Both players at Bot will be behind, so it's a 3v5 for the most part. Mid or Top being behind will only have one player behind, making it a 4v5. That and Bot lane has a very hard time catching up compared to Top or Mid since they don't have a designated "Solo Lane" to obtain solo EXP in.

Having to lane with another player isn't always good either. You need good coordination or the lane is lost. EXP gain and the Support's Gold income is already gimped, so the only way to get ahead is to coordinate attacks well or roam.

zkitt1ez8 votes

Tbh the adc can suck a lot but if the support sucks only a little ur botlane is boned. If your support pick is bad or plays bad and you get perma shoved in by the enemy because your support hides 2models behind you, your support wont go out and ward around. You just die eventually from tp or gank or roam.

On the otherside if you have lane dominance, you obviously asked to be ganked or tp/roamed on, but atleast you have the chance to tell your support were to ward or deward and work around timings. You can ask for ganks or tps. Vision gives information, information your team needs to make plays.

If you even have to micromanage your support while having lane dominance thats the most frustrating part. Many "aggressiv" supports start to become braindead to vision or mapawarness and just try to spam their skills. The reason i say this is because playing something melee or tank like braum/thresh and be aggressiv is a ton more difficult than those velkoz, brand, Karma supports that just empty their manapool on your minionwave.

As an ADC you can be "godlike" as you want, but you do not control the flow of the lane. A passive adc with an aggressive support can have lane dominance. A dominant adc with a passive support cannot have lane dominance.

Even if the support is something like janna or soraka, which many people are terrible at. They throw you a heal or shield and basically go afk hiding 24/7 behind you. Many supports dont even know that their champions have autoattacks for some reason.

Now lets talk about the flipside. The amount of bad adcs is so overwhelming its beyond comprehension. For some reason i see adcs in plat or dia with no ability to orbwalk. They cancel so many autos it makes your brain explode. This gets even worse when you play with something like a varus and he thinks he is legolas just spamming his Q and forgetting that he has autoattacks. They get hit by every single skillshot, walking predictable and linear.

They also dont see shit...like literally the amount of tunnel makes you think that the majority of adc mains have downsyndrome. Tp timings? Is our top shoved? Enemy top mia? Enemy mid mia? Jungler last seen? Ward timings? No? Yea thats what i thought, atleast you manage to still miss 30% of all cs while only focusing on that.

A good support can hide a lot of those shortcomings, and a bad support can make this 10times worse than it has to be. This is why the entire laning phase is almost 90 -10 weighted on the supportside of things. Sadly they just all refuse to take responsibility, and shove it aside as "hue adc blaming support duh".

It was already bad before and now its worse due to the firstblood tower. Not only does it mean your the focus of ganks and tps and roam 24/7, but it also means that if you get wiped down there, you lose a tower and drake, possibly 2 towers depending on the time of the game. No amount of camping top can compensate for that.

But dont be fooled. Ive been saying this for many seasons but just try to play botlane only for a month. See how powerless and frustrating it feels. Even if you are doing well as adc down there and get like 1-2 kills, the enemy tank still rolls you over with a sunfire cape. Its not because ashe,jhin,varus are gods at dps that they are picked, but simply because they can be useful even if they get destroyed by clownfiesta.

TLDR: play botlane for a month and see the joke that riot is.

leona4lyfe2 votes

You understand me.

AwesomeGuyDj2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bibimbap OvO,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=93AAAEzp,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-07-12T22:36:12.609+0000)

Even if you are doing well as adc down there and get like 1-2 kills, the enemy tank still rolls you over with a sunfire cape.

Who even builds a sunfire cape besides tanks without wave clear?

Faustavian1 votes

Eh, if im building full tank, no damage, even as a champ with waveclear like Sion, I'll build it to have a little more oomph in trades, since the damage adds up, especially on multiple people.

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

Why are you building no damage as sion? you should have atleast one damage item... besides on most tanks you probably wont even be able to use the aura, since it goes from the middle of the model, it most likely wont reach them even at melee range.

Standgrounding1 votes

item 3071

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

{quoted}

item 3071

He said full tank no damage. Implying he doesnt have a bruiser item.

Spacesuit Spiff3 votes

Im a little curious about why you have that view of worst cases. If an adc eats hooks/bubbles/snares/etc on cooldown, theyre dead and only a few supports can properly farm/keep the wave pushed/not get dove. Lane is basically gone. Support dies, adc can at least get some of the farm unless your enemy is unusually good at freezing. Maybe we just have different views of terrible though.

I agree that once theyre both at least mediocre, the adc is limited by the skill of the support, not the other way around. Support feels more like playing a video game, adc is just a binary check of "am i bad enough that im basically inting?" That decides whether support gets to play.

Eternal7911 votes

I would argue that a support can be good and lose lane cause the ADC sucks. I play both roles and have experienced both scenarios many times. Although I will admit, that supports sucking causes the lane to be lost more often than the other.

khorney1 votes

exactly people think its the other way around .......how many times the adc missed out on free doubles becuase they pusssed out.... or didnt help doesnt matter what you do you cant force the adc to do anything. a good adc can play like the suppisnt there and hope the supp does anythign to help

khorney1 votes

its the other way around a good adc can carry a okay supp...a fantastic supp cant carry a crap adc...i cant tell you to follow up i cant tell you to focus and trust that you will......

NGNL Asian6 votes

I seriously wished that riot MOVE THE META AWAY FROM THE ADC, because it's paranoying to lose just because your adc isn't good and that's legit like 60% of the adc playerbase and Im pretty sure the majority of league players are Blitzcrank Caitlyn Darius Elise Fiora Jayce Katarina LeeSin Lulu Lucian Lux MasterYi Orianna Riven Twitch Teemo Vayne Yasuo Zac Zed players. Either that or most of the league players are mid/bronzord champs/adc mains/lulu/karma/lux mains.

BigBellBrute12 votes

For every bot loss, the other bot won. so the bot lane is always .500

SirTeemoMushroom1 votes

what's up with teemo?

Faustavian1 votes

Teemo support/top/mid/and ive seen him jg. He's quite versatile, but you already knew this, eh SirTeemoMushroom?

Standgrounding1 votes

And if team is all AD(Darius top, Zed mid, Master Yi jungle, any tanky support), teemo can ADC too.

SirTeemoMushroom1 votes

it's because of his kit that allows him to play on multiple positions on multiple builds

Sp33d Zer03 votes

I mean, if we go by play rate... Thresh Caitlyn Lucian Jhin LeeSin Riven Twitch Yasuo Vayne Orianna Ahri Blitzcrank Warwick . Most of whom aren't on your list.

Also, how could 60% of the population possibly be adc when the most popular role is mid?

DunkinNoobs6 votes

Adc and Supp are the most likely roles to be autofilled and having either one autofilled will likely drag down the other if both enemy bot laners play those roles.

Drunk Tsundere4 votes

Statistically speaking, your bot lane should win 30% of the time, go even 40% of the time, and lose 30% of the time. If you're a toplaner, you can gank bot with tp. If you're a jungler or midlaner, try ganking bot more.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Statistically speaking, your bot lane should win 30% of the time, go even 40% of the time, and lose 30% of the time. If you're a toplaner, you can gank bot with tp. If you're a jungler or midlaner, try ganking bot more.

there is no going even in this game since season 3 or so. usually one side of the lane gets stomped.

you just need to see that more lanes on your side win than lose.

Drunk Tsundere2 votes

I see your point. I guess it wasn't wise for me to assign percentages to the times it should happen. My point is that your bot lane will win 50% of the time, and lose 50% of the time, assuming you are doing what is expected of you in your elo. For example, if you're a jungler who ignores bot every game, it makes sense that they would lose more often than not.

TricolorStar4 votes

So here's an actual answer: Botlane is fucked. ADCs and supports are in a constant state of flux and are being harassed from all angles by the enemy team. Jungler, mid, and even top will come down to fuck them and take tower first blood if it means getting an early advantage. There is no way to counter this unless their own team joins the fight, which they rarely do.

Fast forward 20 minutes, Jinx is 0/6/3, the enemy MF is 13/3/23, and your support has pretty much given up. Instead of thinking "bot is always losing" think "I never help my bot win". It's one of the most stressful places to be in a high-stress game, cut them some slack and give them a gank for Christ's sake.

Eternal7911 votes

This. As someone who plays both ADC and support (as well as top) I agree with this 100%.

Raiyza3 votes

It's basically whichever bot lane has the better warding and the better jungler. It's never usually who is the better adc/support team. At least in my games. I try hard to just focus on cs. If my support wants to go heavy initiation, then fine I'll try to harass, but that usually signals their jungler to come help. So. Yeah.

adclife2017

Weasel Kensei3 votes

To be fair, that CS you want to get... poke procs gold from item 3303 and thats their farm. Sitting around waiting to peel with charges on their sup item would be like you saying "Meh, I dont need the gold from those caster minions."

Also, you gotta make them lose CS if you want to hurt their midgame damage output.

Final note, if you can chunk them out of lane, then you get to do that "just focus on CS" thing you like.

I agree the most with the part where you said "better jungler." Sad but true the side with the better jg has to much going for them.

NGNL Asian1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=93AAAEzp,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-07-12T22:10:14.888+0000)

To be fair, that CS you want to get... poke procs gold from item 3303 and thats their farm. Sitting around waiting to peel with charges on their sup item would be like you saying "Meh, I dont need the gold from those caster minions."

Also, you gotta make them lose CS if you want to hurt their midgame damage output.

Final note, if you can chunk them out of lane, then you get to do that "just focus on CS" thing you like.

I agree the most with the part where you said "better jungler." Sad but true the side with the better jg has to much going for them.

Tbh, the reason why early game junglers/when you gank a lot usually(mind my words usually) get your team ahead is that now that the lanes are fed you get to take turret and drag and rift herald and you move into the enemy jg so in the end you're the one that comes out ahead because now you get to farm and teh enemy one doesnt

Weasel Kensei1 votes

I think youve touched on the crux of the issue. Early game junglers. Riot has done a fair bit to shorten the average game time, and some jg players havent gotten the message. Iv been in matches where one team gets the first dragon. Then the get the Rift H. Then they get Baron, and rofl stomp through 2 turrets mid, take the inhib, and move to the next lane and take 2 turrets there, and 1 in the other. They win one more teamfight and thats game.

Most of those games that happens, they have a jungler than is struggling to clear camps fast enough to hit the lanes. Fast healthy clears that leave a jungler enough time to gank are viable. Slow clearing or less healthy clearing champs cant gank as much and this makes the game nearly 4v5.

I know when I play jg, and its not that often, I always try to hit bot lane for the following reasons:

Easier tower. Dragon control. Snowball the AD carry so they can shut down theres, and allow them to roam. Two people to get kill/assist gold from.

Same reasons when Im mid, if my opponet leaves, gets hurt, its a shove and a walk straight down to bot lane. I like to play Brand and when I hit 6, I shove and take my ult straight down to bot unless I know using ult on the enemy mid will give me a kill. Otherwise, stomp bot with every ult if I can.

The other reason, and this doesnt come up much is that the enemy jg will be less likely to try to gank bot if their ADC/sup are too weak to aid in the gank, so this gives the enemy jg less access to kill/assist gold.

All this adds up to why bot lane is the one to lose. Its a team game, and the team that wants to crush bot lane more than the other is often the one that wins.

NGNL Asian1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=93AAAEzp,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-12T22:41:07.801+0000)

I think youve touched on the crux of the issue. Early game junglers. Riot has done a fair bit to shorten the average game time, and some jg players havent gotten the message. Iv been in matches where one team gets the first dragon. Then the get the Rift H. Then they get Baron, and rofl stomp through 2 turrets mid, take the inhib, and move to the next lane and take 2 turrets there, and 1 in the other. They win one more teamfight and thats game.

Most of those games that happens, they have a jungler than is struggling to clear camps fast enough to hit the lanes. Fast healthy clears that leave a jungler enough time to gank are viable. Slow clearing or less healthy clearing champs cant gank as much and this makes the game nearly 4v5.

I know when I play jg, and its not that often, I always try to hit bot lane for the following reasons:

Easier tower. Dragon control. Snowball the AD carry so they can shut down theres, and allow them to roam. Two people to get kill/assist gold from.

Same reasons when Im mid, if my opponet leaves, gets hurt, its a shove and a walk straight down to bot lane. I like to play Brand and when I hit 6, I shove and take my ult straight down to bot unless I know using ult on the enemy mid will give me a kill. Otherwise, stomp bot with every ult if I can.

The other reason, and this doesnt come up much is that the enemy jg will be less likely to try to gank bot if their ADC/sup are too weak to aid in the gank, so this gives the enemy jg less access to kill/assist gold.

All this adds up to why bot lane is the one to lose. Its a team game, and the team that wants to crush bot lane more than the other is often the one that wins.

They should nerf lee sin <.< crsly that champ is too op considering how the game times are short af now and late game ilegit like 30 min now <.<. Lee sins legit dictates games you win or not

AD champs only3 votes

That's why i say

Remove autofill Give bot turrets fortification.

IcyPepper3 votes

If one bot loses, the other wins. No?

Dream High2 votes

Double the chance of an autofilled player. Most adc/supports especially in lower elos have a lesser understanding of the game than top/mid/jung who can focus on themselves and own role then the clownfiesta in bot lane.

Weasel Kensei2 votes

Almost upvoted this statement, then read the second sentence... I said to myself if I check their match history its going to that of a mid/top player....

Yup, a solid block of Swain and Annie with a little bit of Ahri in there...

"Those people that play the roles I do are good, and those who dont are dumb animals."

Typical. Dont break your back sucking your own dick. I know the temptation is there you love yourself so much. Most people Iv seen on these boards would argue that supports and junglers have a better understanding of the game than top and mid, often the only people who argue against that are... self absorbed top/mid players.

Double the chance of autofill is a valid point. Also that when the jungler ganks they can focus on champ in the 3v2. The bot tower is pretty much the weakest tower, especially since it will have 3 people hitting it with the jg instead of 2.

NGNL Asian2 votes

The entire meta rn is just retarded because you want a adc that can just do op damage and you want a playmaking sup that gets it fed and then jg and top are basically slaves to help protect the adc. Like wtf...

SlashStriker2 votes

IT"S ALWAYS BOT THAT LOSES. wtf

Because the other bot wins

Primal Fear2 votes

As an ADC main I can't stress enough how important a good support is. Supports are often autofilled and pick champions they can't play. Whenever I ask the autofilled support if they can pick Janna, they will say that she is boring, lock in blitz and stay semi afk during the lane phase. I can't win lane with such supports unless I am on my smurf.

This is what I experienced in Platinum. Atleast I am closing in on Diamond so it might get better??? For now I'll just duo with my premade Janna friend as it's hard for us to lose any matches.

NGNL Asian1 votes

[{quoted}](name=CV Zephyrin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=93AAAEzp,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2017-07-13T14:18:14.525+0000)

As an ADC main I can't stress enough how important a good support is. Supports are often autofilled and pick champions they can't play. Whenever I ask the autofilled support if they can pick Janna, they will say that she is boring, lock in blitz and stay semi afk during the lane phase. I can't win lane with such supports unless I am on my smurf.

This is what I experienced in Platinum. Atleast I am closing in on Diamond so it might get better??? For now I'll just duo with my premade Janna friend as it's hard for us to lose any matches.

I mean that's the problem with autofilled sups, other roles should be autofilled too(well that's how I got autofilled into mid and adc in ranked), not only sup, it's triggering to see autofilled sups play sup.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Adc is literally the hardest role.

Lauchmelder2 votes

Right clicking intensifies

AirKingNeo1 votes

I'd like to see you play ADC.

There's a reason everyone at high elo would rather be autofill support than ADC.

Lauchmelder1 votes

I can play Draven, Jinx, Ashe and Vayne on an ok'ish level. Good enough to call it decent for my elo.

And I know how to kite, it's a side effect of learning to play Cassiopeia.

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