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How to rebalance Teemo?

Done25··1 votes·873 views

As he is now, Teemo can never be allowed to be actively powerful due to his lack of counter-play. We should help Riot come up with some ways to make him powerful, but include things that people can do to fight back against a 25 kill Teemo.

I think a good mindset would be to have him as an AP assassin, rather than a AP marskman.

Old:

Camouflage - If Teemo stands still and takes no action for 2 seconds, he becomes stealthed. Taking any action or being moved will break his camouflage, giving Teemo the Element of Surprise, 40% bonus attack speed for 3 seconds.

Blinding Dart - Active: Teemo shoots a dart at an enemy, dealing magic damage and blinding them for a few seconds.

Move Quick - Passive: Teemo gains increased movement speed. Damage from champions and structures will disable this bonus for 5 seconds. Active: For 3 seconds, Teemo doubles his passive movement speed bonus. While active, Move Quick's bonus cannot be disabled via champion or structure damage.

Toxic Shot - Passive: Teemo's auto-attacks deal bonus magic damage and poison his target, causing them to take additional magic damage over 4 seconds. Subsequent attacks only refresh the duration.

Noxious Trap - Active: Teemo places a mushroom trap on the ground for 10 minute, which stealths and arms after 1 second. While armed, the traps grant vision in a 212.5-radius. If an enemy comes within 60-range of the trap, it will detonate, slowing and dealing magic damage over 4 seconds to nearby enemies within 200-radius.

New:

Camouflage - If Teemo stands still and takes no action for 2 seconds, he becomes stealthed. Taking any action or being moved will break his camouflage, giving Teemo the Element of Surprise for 3 seconds. Teemo's next basic attack or Blinding Dart will deal an additional 20~140(+0.5) AP damage.

This is one of the changes that will help to emphasize his "Hit and run" style of gameplay, while lowering the power of "Blind them then auto to death."

Blinding Dart - Active: Teemo shoots a dart at an enemy, dealing magic damage and reducing their vision to 500/475/450/425/400 for a few seconds.

No one likes standing right next to Teemo and being unable to hit him while he spams his laugh. Reducing vision instead allows people to fight back if he doesn't properly space, while still keeping it as a powerful tool against long ranged foes.

Move Quick - Passive: Teemo gains increased movement speed. Damage from champions and structures will disable this bonus for 5 seconds. Active: Teemo breaks free of all slows and for 3 seconds he has double his passive movement speed bonus. While active, Move Quick's bonus cannot be disabled via champion or structure damage.

I think that his Move Quick is pretty great as it. It allows him to quickly roam the map and get into position. Breaking free of slows allows to to better reflect his new "get in then get out" assassin play style though.

Toxic Shot - Passive: Teemo's auto-attacks deal bonus magic damage and poison his target, causing them to take additional magic damage over 5(!) seconds. Subsequent attacks only refresh the duration. Total Magic Damage Over Time: 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 (+100% AP)

By removing the stronger on hit portion and giving it a longer duration Teemo is encouraged to be slippery and "spread the love" in team fights to maximize his power. The low base and high ratio is to keep him in control during the lane phase if he maxes his E first.

Noxious Trap - Active: Teemo generates a new trap periodically, and can only store up to 3 traps at once.

Active: Teemo places a mushroom trap on the ground for 10 minute, which stealths and arms after 1 second. While armed, the traps grant vision in a 50 radius. If an enemy comes within 50 range of the trap, it will detonate after half a second, revealing nearby enemies within a 250 radius for (5/6/7) seconds and inflicting a decaying slow of 30/40/50% (+5% per 100 AP).

This skill will never be allowed to both deal damage AND be good. I instead suggest that it be made into a utility ult, allowing Teemo to locate and track his prey, the powerful slow preventing their escape until he arrives.

8 Comments

CrimsonRakan2 votes

Reduce his toxic shot ratio to 80-90 it will make him much more viable

What if his ult reduced enemy MR? Or increased damage dealt by teemo by 30%(this would require a farther drop to his toxic shot ratio. If I'm not mistaken his present ratio for his passive is 30% so I would suggest 40-50% with these in play. I would like to add that teemos ult is almost never used in a fight. In a gank or bait maybe, so this isn't much of a nerf we just raised his poison damage by a ton which is his main and only real source of damage But we gave his already weak ult a vision buff but reduced the damage on it to zero. other then the ratio on his toxic shot(which needs to stay the same) I agree with all of this and think it's quite viable

Done251 votes

No comments? Guess I forgot to include Teemo's hidden global taunt passive. :V

Lord Dusteon1 votes

Well, you nerfed his Q (losing a blind for reduced vision is extremely meh), made his E do more damage, ratio and DoT wise, but you also got rid off the on hit and made the time to get full damage longer, which is a net nerf in anything other than one autoattack trades. His W got buffed with the breaking free of slows, and his passive is better suited for an assassin playstyle (which, due to the fact that teemo's has extremely low damage to begin with and you just nerfed it even more, is silly).

The final problem is that you literally removed the only reason past 10 minutes to pick teemo by severely nerfing his traps. Now his traps both have NO damage, and less detonation + sight range. So you know, the whole minefield has been nerfed both vision and damage wise, which, when coupled with the extreme damage and survivability nerfs you also gave him (hint, it's hard to survive as one of the squishiest champions in the game if your only method of damage mitigation (blind) has been removed), makes him literally a troll pick.

So if you really hate Teemo and want him to be useless, this is a great rebalance.

Done251 votes

Well, you nerfed his Q (losing a blind for reduced vision is extremely meh), made his E do more damage, ratio and DoT wise, but you also got rid off the on hit and made the time to get full damage longer, which is a net nerf in anything other than one autoattack trades. His W got buffed with the breaking free of slows, and his passive is better suited for an assassin playstyle (which, due to the fact that teemo's has extremely low damage to begin with and you just nerfed it even more, is silly).

The final problem is that you literally removed the only reason past 10 minutes to pick teemo by severely nerfing his traps. Now his traps both have NO damage, and less detonation + sight range. So you know, the whole minefield has been nerfed both vision and damage wise, which, when coupled with the extreme damage and survivability nerfs you also gave him (hint, it's hard to survive as one of the squishiest champions in the game if your only method of damage mitigation (blind) has been removed), makes him literally a troll pick.

So if you really hate Teemo and want him to be useless, this is a great rebalance.

Hold on, I'm going to try and break this down into bulletpoints.

*Well, you nerfed his Q (losing a blind for reduced vision is extremely meh) I think suddenly reducing Caitlyn OR Brand's range to 400 would be a great change. Right now his Q is good against auto attackers and auto attackers only. Reducing vision makes him less of a hard counter and give him more flexibility target wise.

*made his E do more damage, ratio and DoT wise, but you also got rid off the on hit and made the time to get full damage longer, which is a net nerf in anything other than one autoattack trades.

That was intentional. This lets him do a lot of damage, but prevents the abuse that comes with Frozen Mallet + Nashor's Tooth Tank Teemo.

*His W got buffed with the breaking free of slows

And how does that make you feel?

*and his passive is better suited for an assassin playstyle (which, due to the fact that teemo's has extremely low damage to begin with and you just nerfed it even more, is silly).

I did mention I was aiming for an assassin mentality. The only thing I actively took damage away form was his R. His DoT is now stronger in exchange for less up front damage, this helps keep in from going out of control in terms of DPS. And I would say that his passive is now much stronger and helps make up for the lost on hit effect.

*The final problem is that you literally removed the only reason past 10 minutes to pick teemo by severely nerfing his traps. Now his traps both have NO damage, and less detonation + sight range. So you know, the whole minefield has been nerfed both vision and damage wise

I didn't exactly do any super hard thinking on the numbers. I just put up what seemed to get the idea across. As for damage, we know that Riot doesn't want them to deal any, as evidenced by them reducing the base AND ratio damages by a good 35ish%. Now that Wards are much more limited, letting Teemo be able to put down 10 at a time for no cost is a bit silly. In exchange, they now give a powerful AoE slow (the range and strength of which I increased), as well as long lasting champion vision.

*when coupled with the extreme damage and survivability nerfs you also gave him (hint, it's hard to survive as one of the squishiest champions in the game if your only method of damage mitigation (blind) has been removed), makes him literally a troll pick.

I would argue that being able to significantly reduce Brand's vision would actually help Teemo, and his team, survive. (Not to mention the ability to break free of slows.)

Lord Dusteon1 votes

*Q

The problem is, reducing Caitlyn's vision range to 400 requires you to get within Q range first, and she can still auto you to lifesteal and murder you if you get that close. Reducing Brand's vision range on the other hand requires you to get within range of a combo reliant but still mostly skillshot mage, which makes this Q SLIGHTLY better if that person is being ganked, mediocre if that person is reliant on long range point and clicks + autos and it's a teamfight (so...it's worse at everything then the normal blind was), and absolutely useless except for some okay damage vs close ranged or skillshot enemies.

*E

...This does more damage assuming teemo both goes heavy AP and keeps the DoT up.

Doing basic math; 300 AP teemo, max rank E.

Yours would do 470 damage over 5 seconds; increased to 470 over 5 +290 (assuming level 18 teemo). So 760 damage over 5 seconds, assuming a stealthed auto.

Current teemo would do 140 damage on-hit + 240 damage over 3 seconds. Assuming he got 3 autos off (one for proc, 2 from element of surprise currently), and his DoT going for 5 seconds total, this would do 420 on-hit + 400, or 820 damage over 5 seconds.

This means his E is LITERALLY only better if he only uses it to auto you once.

*W

Not really a needed change. He already gets a free passive 26% ms if he doesn't get hit, increased to 52% for 3 seconds if he actives it. Giving it a slow cleanse is a buff to teemo as the dancing annoying shroom fielder, and mostly a "we didn't want to FULLY nerf him!" for hit once then wait 5 seconds teemo.

*Passive

Teemo's normal ones gives 40%, which let's him get more E procs off. This means your passive is better, again, ASSUMING a teemo autoattacks once then runs away. Which isn't really what an assassin does. The E change actively discourages Teemo to stay in a fight for more than one auto, since his DoT is rather long and only refreshes.

*R

Riot nerfing damage =/= Riot wanting to remove their damage. For comparison, Fiora's ult was nerfed on PBE, does that mean they don't want Fiora to do damage? Kat's ult cooldown was increased, does that mean they don't want Kat to have an ult?

No, it doesn't, because nerfs are meant to make a champion more balanced, not remove huge swaths of their kit (though, some kits are rather toxic or overloaded, which means yes, some nerfs will remove parts of a kit). Currently, the only reason to pick Teemo is to make the enemy laner's life hell and to shroom everything to gain control of points. Removing the shrooms damage literally neuters Teemo, as without that high damage they don't deter anyone. Gaining vision and a higher slow ( an AoE slow that requires someone to both hit the shrooms, which have even tinier detonation ranges with your change) is rather useless when you have nothing to back that up and no deterrent to just running into them.

Also, at no point is "this champion has really tiny mini wards" a good point for nerfing. While Teemo can use his shrooms as wards, unless he's spamming all of his in one spot he has a high chance of missing people just because they don't run right by the shroom. Since you nerfed their actual sight range (until detonated) by quite a large amount (212.5 to 50), these shrooms are literally unable to deter anyone from hitting one.

*Survivability

Teemo's main pick reason is anti lane and shrooms. I've gone over shrooms, so.

Nerfing his blind to sight reduction already makes Teemo weak to anyone who ever gets close to him, and anyone with skillshots is still unaffected by the teemo. Nerfing his E to an even longer unstackable DoT means if he gets jumped, his only way to live is to A)have his enemy be really low and die to Q B)Have a jungler right by him or C) Press W and run for his life, hoping they have no hard cc, a 2nd slow, or any gapcloser.

Which means his laning is now pretty bad, his midgame is now pretty bad, and his lategame is really bad.

Done251 votes

I'm sorry, but you seem to not at all be realizing the power that comes with vision reduction. Teemo Q has 580 range and can reduce their vision down to 400. Imagine you're up top against Quinn, your Warwick is withing in the bushes for a chance to jump her. Teemo blinds her and Warwick uses this chance to close the gap while she can't see him.

This has a significantly wider range of tactics and play than "I've blinded you and now you can't auto me."

Also, please don't nit pick the numbers. They aren't to be taken seriously and are just there to show examples. If the new E doesn't do enough DoT in exchange for losing the up front damage then we can simply increase the damage or compress the diration. Your example also doesn't account for New Teemo being able to spread his damage around by attacking multiple targets, and you also use a rather low value of 300 AP instead of a more average 500 which would better make use of his new higher ratios.

You also said that Teemo is fragile and NEEDS blind to survive, but if he can do similar damage in half the time, wouldn't that also increase his survivability? Assasins revolve around jumping in and out of fights. Such as Shaco's Hallucinate + Deceive or Talon's Cutthroat + Shadow Assault

Lord Dusteon1 votes

Numbers wise, more AP still favors Current Teemo, since his on hit is, obviously, on hit, and his DoT is in almost half the time, making refreshing it in addition to the on-hit doing more damage normally.

His E doesn't favor being an assassin with yours. It takes 5 seconds for a medium damage spell to work fully, which even with his Q and passive is weaker than current Teemo.

As I already said vision wise, "which makes this Q SLIGHTLY better if that person is being ganked, mediocre if that person is reliant on long range point and clicks + autos and it's a teamfight (so...it's worse at everything then the normal blind was), and absolutely useless except for some okay damage vs close ranged or skillshot enemies.". Literally the only way it is better is, as I said, is if that person is being ganked or is caught out and your team is with you.

Also, those champs you listed have escapes and heavy damage, in return for low survivability. Your teemo has a weak escape, mediocre damage, and low survivability. See the problems?

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Hello, I've been working on a Teemo rework for a while now, pulling ideas from tons of posts and coming up with some of my own. Swapping the Q to a vision reduction is a common theme people would like, and I am glad you recognize that the mushrooms shouldn't deal as much damage if they are to be used as a scouting tool. If you get bored, I would love some feedback on the rework I did.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/7EETRJRc-teemo-rework-to-enhance-his-fantasy-decrease-toxicity

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