Zed and Yasuo are extremely frustrating to lane against

Espurr VI·Dec 26, 2015·40 votes·5,572 views

As a person who plays Vel'koz, Anivia, and Talon at mid, I have to say that I can never seem to win lane against Zed or Yasuo. All the other mid laners have some form of counter play. Anivia you can side step her slow moving Q, Syndra you can stay away from her balls, Veigar you can predict his stun and juke it easily. But not for Zed and Yasuo. Zed's W-Q combo is so fast, it's extremely difficult to dodge, and the fact he can tower dive so easily from his ult makes him unbearable. Yasuo isn't as bad, since he can only dash once per enemy, but his shield and double crit chance make him a menace since he can always out damage you.

What counter play do these two have? Because I can't seem to find any except for waiting for laning phase to be over and focusing them down.

102 Comments

Maximum Ao ShinDec 26, 201520 votes

so you play vel who can harass through minions

anivia who can harass through minions

and talon, a more toxic champion than zed

and you're complaining about zed and yasuo?

i'm confused.

Surfer AsheDec 26, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Ao Shin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8x7Wsbhk,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-12-26T05:41:35.225+0000)

so you play vel who can harass through minions

anivia who can harass through minions

and talon, a more toxic champion than zed

and you're complaining about zed and yasuo?

i'm confused.

To be fair, windwall completely negates Talon's W and R if any part of it touches it.

WickedCrowDec 26, 20155 votes

Talon might be a pain in the ass, but he atleast has mana and lacks the mobility of Zed's shadows.

Handin Out NapsDec 26, 201511 votes

Using that as a reason to say Talon is ok is so silly. It doesn't matter if Talon falls behind in lane because of how easy it is for him to roam. It doesn't matter if he doesn't have escapes like Zed because he will shit on your adc and run out before you can even blink. Meanwhile smart adcs qss Zeds ult and force you to run without securing the kill. Honestly Talon is so much worse than Zed it isn't even funny.

Spizzle9000Dec 27, 20151 votes

Don't forget that a good Talon can almost always outburst a Zed in a 1v1 and in a 1v1, Talon is much easier past early game. Zed can be countered with some good ol' cc. Hard to CC a stealthed Talon. . .

Spizzle9000Dec 27, 20151 votes

Not to mention Vel gets a free kill if he has ult as long as he lands his E on a squishy.

l Mamba l 24Dec 26, 201516 votes

Zed's W-Q is not fast. Ever since Riot "bug fixed" Zeds W-Q it's super delayed than what it used to be. And being serious here if you lose lane to zed as talon then you need to get better at the game since Talon beats Zed in lane.

MohawkBirdDec 26, 20155 votes

[deleted]

IcyPepperDec 26, 201510 votes

Whoa whoa whoa, there.

I'm not a huge fan of the dude, but energy still requires some management. It falls off a bit later in the game compared to mana, but it has early dominance and it's kind of like mana on easy mode, but "no resource to manage" is a bit of an exaggeration. Bad Zeds can spam W pointlessly too much, and run out of energy, and this can be taken advantage of.

On the downside, however, never die when you have blue buff and give it to him. Blue buff increases energy regen, making them even more frustrating.

The Poetic ZedDec 26, 20154 votes

{quoted}

It's still pretty hard to dodge especially with the range increase. Also the fact that he has no resource to manage and can keep infinitely poking makes it even more frustrating.

Didn't realize energy wasn't a resource, and that you didn't need to manage it. It regenerates a lot quicker yes, but it isn't yasuo type resourceless

Spizzle9000Dec 27, 20151 votes

Not to mention how tiny the pool is.

falldown010Dec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Didn't realize energy wasn't a resource, and that you didn't need to manage it. It regenerates a lot quicker yes, but it isn't yasuo type resourceless

^indeed yasuo uses flow , he gains flow for moving, and using abilities his ult gives him a full bar of flow , and the amount he gains while moving + if you look at his mobility , its insane compared to champs like akali,lee and so on

Spizzle9000Dec 27, 20151 votes

And mid game. And late game.

AstroFerrari Dec 26, 20159 votes

Try using Annie or Fizz. Annie doesn't worry too much about mana, is easy to CS with, and Stun-Ult Yasuo into oblivion. Fizz can cheese Zed and negate his burst with his E. Another thing with Zed is that you really have to play to your comfort with him, as in pick a champion you can at the very least hold you own against him with. Other than that, try Heimerdinger . Yasuo and Zed can't do anything to him really

YumaS2AstralDec 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Try using Annie or Fizz. Annie doesn't worry too much about mana, is easy to CS with, and Stun-Ult Yasuo into oblivion. Fizz can cheese Zed and negate his burst with his E. Another thing with Zed is that you really have to play to your comfort with him, as in pick a champion you can at the very least hold you own against him with. Other than that, try . Yasuo and Zed can't do anything to him really

Vladimir is also effective against both. He doesn't use mana, can sustain himself against both of them, and Vlad can also use his pool both to avoid being marked by Zed's ult, and to avoid being hit by Yasuo's tornado.

High5Dec 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Vladimir is also effective against both. He doesn't use mana, can sustain himself against both of them, and Vlad can also use his pool both to avoid being marked by Zed's ult, and to avoid being hit by Yasuo's tornado.

Vlad works really well into most assassins because of his ranged attack and pool.

I like to pick Vlad into Kat or Akili when they become fotw.

Spizzle9000Dec 27, 20151 votes

Vlad is love. Vlad is life.

yay nibbersDec 26, 20153 votes

This need more visibility. There are over 150 champs in the game, some champs are going to be better against certain champs than others. If you play against a champ with one that's weak to that particular champ's playstyle you shouldn't be surprised when you lose.

This is a team game and as such isnt perfectly balanced for 1v1, you cant play immobile mages with low/unreliable hard CC against high mobility assassins and expect to come out on top. Versatility is a key skill in League and being able to play a wide variety of champs and knowing when to play who is an important part of that.

Only Play DariusDec 26, 20159 votes

Counterplay is not to overestimate them.

Yasuo dies in 99% of ganks and Zed's shurikens are easy to dodge (and do miniscule damage if they passthrough)

Honestly if you are having so much trouble against these champions you should just play them and learn their weaknesses firsthand

SpongebobIsLifeDec 26, 20152 votes

not sure why you are being downvoted lol

Slamurai JackDec 26, 20159 votes

All 3 of those champions are good against Yasuo and Anivia and Talon are both good against Zed. This is pretty much a "you" problem.

YCitizenSnipsYDec 26, 20158 votes

Aren't you supposed to be having trouble with a Zed as a Vel'koz and Anivia player. Those are two immoble mages who try to sit on the back line and dish out damage form range, if champions like Zed, as well as other mobile assassins, Shouldn't be allowed to be able to actual reach you and resent a real threat then who should?

SpongebobIsLifeDec 26, 20152 votes

this

Meep ManDec 26, 20156 votes

I can understand Yasuo, not sure on Zed. He isn't all that huge of a problem in my eyes considering you can just build Zhonya's to ruin his ultimate or get Quicksilver and upgrade that for AD champs. His poke isn't extremely quick either. Laning against him can be a little tedious, but nothing major. I can understand Yasuo however. Riot overstepped what Yasuo needed to be a Middle Lane in my opinion, giving him a poke shield and projectile nullification through Windwall. This just makes him a huge "Counter or Be Coutnered" champion.

Indominus BladeDec 26, 20153 votes

Talon destroys both Zed and Yasuo . The problem is YOU, not the champions. Gitgut or cry more.

Bears Dont CareDec 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Indominus Blade,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8x7Wsbhk,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-12-26T05:23:17.251+0000)

destroys both and . The problem is YOU, not the champions. Gitgut or cry more.

Not sure on talon since windward blocks half of talon's kit

Indominus BladeDec 26, 20151 votes

Don't use "half your kit" when windwall is up, simple.

FrostySkipperDec 26, 20152 votes

I usually pick Talon into Zed because I'm very confident that I can beat him. All u have to do is farm, harass him with e-aa-q-w if he missed his combo and is out of energy. U can ask for a gank. If u get at least one kill, u can snowball the lane. If you're losing lane, just roam. U can all in him at lvl 6 but only use your ult after he ults. Also, your ult has a lower cooldown than his. Use it to your advantage. For Yasuo i recommend playing Malzahar or Chogath

The DeckownerDec 26, 20152 votes

not really zed's range and poke is much better than talons and his ult makes u impossible to combo him.

Handin Out NapsDec 26, 20153 votes

It's a skill matchup. I have won it from both sides, in fact it's much better for Talon since he can just ult after Zed ults. Honestly if you have never beaten a Zed as Talon you need to find out what you are fucking up on and fix it.

The DeckownerDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's a skill matchup. I have won it from both sides, in fact it's much better for Talon since he can just ult after Zed ults. Honestly if you have never beaten a Zed as Talon you need to find out what you are fucking up on and fix it.

hey, think before u speak, if a zed cant kill a squishy full dmg assasin in one combo then this zed is probably trash and u can fuck him with anychamp.

Handin Out NapsDec 26, 20153 votes

How do you kill what you can't see? And that is exactly why Talon has the edge vs Zed.

The DeckownerDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How do you kill what you can't see? And that is exactly why Talon has the edge vs Zed.

zed ult u and he will land on u, so it doesnt matter if u are invisible or not cause none of his skills are point and click(other than ult) so he can still hit u because he pretty much knows where u are when he finish ult animation. also a single pink ward and counter the shit out of u, and zed can just teleport to his shadow and u cant really do anything to him as talon.

Fieryfury3Dec 26, 20152 votes

Coming from experience you have a pretty small chance to hit your abilities once talon goes invisible. Let's say you get lucky and do hit him. Most of the time one combo isn't enough to finish someone off at full health. You have to get some autoattacks in unless you're fed, and you can't auto someone that is invisible.

SlytherinUmbreonDec 26, 20151 votes

Now all of Zed's quotes about an Unseen blade make sense. He Scured. Teemo

Battlecast SonaDec 26, 20151 votes

and then zed bought a pink ward.

talon bought a QSS.

wait a minute, one costs 75g and the other costs 1300....

Handin Out NapsDec 27, 20152 votes

............................................................... Is this even serious? One takes off the ability Zed requires to kill people. The other one makes him visible while he 1 shots you. Nice comparison you got there.

Old Man TeetoDec 26, 20152 votes

Play top lane.

Find a top lane Nunu main.

Complain about frustrating lane.

Spicy RiceDec 27, 20151 votes

When i really get salty, i bust out my ap nunu bot top

Espurr VIDec 27, 20151 votes

When I really get salty, I got bot lane with Prime Time Draven.

NinpireDec 26, 20152 votes

i feel like the range increase buff on Zed 's w was kind of a horrible way to buff him >.>

it makes it ridiculously hard to prevent harass because the range is so massive, especially since the shadow e slow is unavoidable, so it makes it harder to juke his q

otherwise I'm fine with Zed

Yasuo is ok. only thing that's annoying is his windwall but even then that's on like a 20+ second cd

manolitoCrimenDec 27, 20152 votes

As a Yasuo main, this is my experience:

Vs Vel'koz I stomp. All his abilities are just too easy to dodge/dash/wall. At lvl 1 I have him below 50% hp and I usually kill him at 3 if he doesnt give up on farming. Once I'm 6 it's just too easy to kill that thing.
Vs Talon I have about a 55% win 45% lose rate. I have the edge pre 6, if I can kill him lane its mine. If not, I have to be so careful post 6 because if you make a mistake he will punish you so hard.
Vs Anivia I ask for a lane swap.

Hope it helped

skyfall619Dec 26, 20151 votes

So wats the counter play of the R E combo as anivia? There is none.

scoob12Dec 27, 20151 votes

it's because you're a silver lux main

Espurr VIDec 27, 20152 votes

Nice try, calling me out...

But I haven't played Lux in weeks, and I've only played her a few times in my entire League lifetime.

MasziiDec 27, 20151 votes

funny thing is as a nivia you just let him get onto you. press r-e and delete 70% of his health he then backs off or stays inside your r and dies while you transform into an egg.

Ohh and talon no idea dont play the champ. Vel should be able to outpoke him if you max w cus he is melee.