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Why do you love LP on afk games?

Wicked FlamezZ··5 votes·923 views

Like if someone not in your party queue DCs for more than 5m and never comes back and in RANKED then you shouldn't lose LP. I get that it's not their fault so you can't punish them with a ban but it's ALSO not my fault yet ur punishing me by erasing an HOUR worth of gameplay. Like losing LP for afk goes against what elo even is.

Elo is a point system designed to show individual skill skill has nothing to do winning a 4v5. Hell I don't even get bonus LP for literally playing with a handicap......what?

This is one system online games always confuse me on. They act like afk losses don't happen in low elo of any game all the fucking time. To me about 3 times a week. Either someone dc's, someone trolls, or someone acts like a fucking cry baby and sits in fountain. Gotta love how much my skill is reflected by that.

I just lost a game where we were taking all 3 inhibs and LITERALLY ending and yas DCs so we lose. Nice! Good Job Riot.

40 Comments

Zed genius5 votes

Why do you love LP on afk games?

Killer30001892 votes

This always has the huge flaw of if one team is losing they can have a scape goat to afk so they save their lp

MysterQ1 votes

The system should be designed around catch the people who abuse this.

Don't punish EVERYONE because a few will abuse the power. And even if they abuse it, what do they gain?

Riot should make the game fun for everyone.

Killer30001891 votes

Much easier said than done, plus it would be mostly teams trading off who takes the afk hit this time. What do they gain from abusing it????? no lp lost for their team and the next time they wont lose lp

MysterQ1 votes

Do the math.

Let's say SoloDuo for easiness. 0LP start, 20LP gain, 15LP loss. 50%WR. 20LP each 20LP and 5LP (afk should still lose in most people's system mind) 40LP and 25LP 25LP and 45LP (boy it sucks to be the 25LP now) 45LP and 65LP 45LP and 50LP 65LP and 70LP 50LP and 70LP (did I mess up my math?)

OK. 8 games in and still neither are in promos. Much abuse, so broken. My system can't detect a guy with a *80%WR and multiple dc queue partners? Yes, in the end they are climbing.... but they could climb anyways. Yes in more extreme cases someone can abuse it even more, but the harder you abuse it the easier you should be to catch.

And of course there has to be experimentations and fixes. Someone dc'ing at 40minutes in after a Baron and ace probably should not give the pardon like someone dc'ing at 2minutes during wave 1. And if you are going to abuse the system, you are probably dc'ing later game (unless you are a sore loser).

And yes, we shouldn't outright punish someone who queues with a dc'er. Maybe they are friends with a bad connection. But what friend is going to have multiple accounts to keep dc'ing just to boost his friend. It makes no sense. the amount of time a friend would have to give to help raise someones rank even 1 tier is pretty extensive.

AND even if he did. WHAT DO WE LOSE? We aren't losing money. He isn't even hurting his teammates if he disconnects in a high ELO game and saves them their LP. I agree it is terrible and I think the system can catch it. But even if it doesn't, it doesn't matter because rank is just for show and meaningless anyways outside of Challenger and Gold.

Killer30001891 votes

Yes it wont be as effective in soloq but in flexq with 5 mans is where i see it being abused, even with a 50%wr if they have a different scape goat everytime there wont be much lp lost overall. Maybe duo q's would be easier to boost with the same person afking so the other can keep climbing.

MysterQ1 votes

So start the program in solo/duo only for awhile. I mean I think a system can catch flex abuse as well, but that is another issue. Heck, how about this easy solution. ONLY give LP protection if the afk is NOT queued with you. Bam solved. If you queue with someone who disconnects, you suffer the same penalty. Sure it sucks for you. You may not want to play with that friend again (if you are a jerk), but the other 3 people on your team don't feel terrible.

There are a lot of solutions around abuse. Just shouting abuse abuse is being lazy. They can makes ways to prevent it. Just as there are things within solutions that need to be fixed. (If you dc and reconnect others have less reason to try if LP is protected). But if we discuss these things maybe we can fix them instead of just saying abusable can't be used.

And you are right, if one person was going to take every disconnect to boost someone, it would be MUCH faster. But that would be one hell of a friend. Has to create a level 30 account (I assume he wants to use an extra). Has to play with his friend. Has to disconnect multiple times. There is low priority queue or something right? SO now both have to wait to queue up. Oh wait the system caught him because now he is disconnecting 2x more. And he also has an 80% WR outside of his dc. That account is banned. Guess he has to make a new account to continue boosting his friend. Oh his friend is now two tiers away. Guess he has to make a new account to keep boosting.

So many limits. I wish I had a friend that dedicated. And for what gain?

Killer30001891 votes

The people who boost have so many accounts that won't matter, yes it would be slower if it was just a friend making multiple accounts and leveling them to 30. A majority of people wont even bother doing that though. The soloq option you provided could work well but might stop people from queuing together simple so they don't have to take the risk of losing lp whole the rest of their team doesn't

MysterQ1 votes

My main point is there are always workable solutions, but if we shut down conversations before we even start then things won't get better.

Killer30001891 votes

True true, liked your points though <3*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

Wicked FlamezZ1 votes

My suggestion said that it does not work if your partied up though. I doubt you convince a random especially in low elo to take -25lp so you guys can get off the hook.

MysterQ1 votes

Yea, there are a lot of suggestions. And that is an easy one to start.

People did bring up flaming to get someone to disconnect, but again fix that problem. Don't punish everyone because a few people might abuse it.

Wicked FlamezZ1 votes

To me, the mute button fixes that problem even. I feel like if you let someone abuse you on the game so bad you leave you deserve the lp loss imo. The game now even allows you mute pings so you can completely erase their presence from your game and it will be like playing with a bot.

That's why I never understood internet bullying either though. Just hit mute XD

Janakin2 votes

I understand how you feel. But there's something that apparently only few people understand.

If you play with a good technical equipment, then statistically the enemy team has DC player more often than your team (remember - you never DC, hence the odds of a team-mate going DC out of total 4 team-mates is less than the odds of an opponent going DC out of 5 opponents). So if you play enough games, you actually gain from the fact, that people DC. If you have a good computer with a good internet connection, of course. If you don't, then the thread you've created is meaningless.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Ah that's how i literally got 6 afks in the last two days. "evens out". Bullshit. This whole system is flawed and broken. Too sad noone is talking about it.

Janakin1 votes

You need to change your mindset.

Wicked FlamezZ1 votes

That's not how rng works though. Probability is just that, probable. Not actual. So while the enemy is more LIKELY to dc more it is completely possible the reverse is true and x10. That's how randomness works. Too many outside variables interact with variables to make your logic accurate.

I don't care if the enemy team is more likely to afk if I actually get afk's 3 times a week and they don.t

MysterQ1 votes

It is bs. People don't understand statistics and just spout that out because they are "smart."

Janakin2 votes

Both of you have probably overlooked the word "enough" games. What you are doing is like complaining about having poor team-mates in ranked. When you play e.g. mid, then after "enough" games, in approximately 50 % cases your team-mates are better than opponent mid-laner's team-mates. So if you are always better mid-laner than the enemy mid-laner, your elo will rise. Even if you get 20 games in a row 4v5 game and you lose every one of them. Eventually (after "enough" games), you WILL have more wins than loses.

After all, I dare you. Take a pen and a sheet of paper or open some text editor and keep track of DC players in your team and the enemy team. You can also keep track of having someone 0/10 in your team and their team. Do this for 100 games. And then sum it up. You will see that I am right.

MysterQ1 votes

You are wrong. Someone did keep an excel sheet and he had far more disconnects on his team. He posted it on the Lol boards a few years ago I think. Or do you want to keep arguing that he didn't have "enough" games.

And it doesn't matter if I eventually get 50% wins. That means I am losing and deranking until the system finally balances out. And those 4v5 losses are not fair losses that should cause me to derank.

Smooth561 votes

he's not wrong, it's just probabilities... you have 4 teammates and 5 opponents, so you have a greater chance of having a afk/feeder on the ennemy team. That's why if you are better you will climb eventually. Moreover, it would be too easy when you get stomped, just one person goes afk and all his teammates wouldn't lose lp.

Edit : Just noticed "Someone did keep an excel sheet and he had far more disconnects on his team". Can't argue with statistics when you've got one example.

MysterQ1 votes

You are wrong also. Stop applying statistics when it can't be applied. This isn't even real statistics because the initial assumption is wrong.

Janakin1 votes

I really doubt that the sheet is reliable source of information. When someone in your team leaves and then reconnects in a minute, you notice that. And the person making the sheet could write that down. On the other hand, if the enemy player DCed just for a minute, the author of the sheet might not have noticed that, hence not writing that down.

If the author was watching replay from every game, where the disconnects are, of course, visible on both teams, then sure, the sheet would mean something. But I really doubt the author did that.

Wicked FlamezZ1 votes

That's literally just not how statistics and probability work dude. It means you are LIKELY to get X results over enough games. LIKELY.

MysterQ1 votes

The ultimate bet (for these "statistics" intellectuals).

We flip x coins. I will give you $100 if they go 50%heads, 50%tails; you give me $100 on all other results. How many coins do you flip? I mean clearly flipping more coins means you should get closer to the true value. But I would feel MUCH safer on 2 coin flips than I would 1000. You can't apply statistics to real life all the time. If you can trust your statistic then take me up on my bet except I risk nothing, and you risk $100. If you are so sure you can get 50/50 on coinflips then you shouldn't be scared.

Janakin1 votes

I've never said the situation is going to be 50/50. I've said that after enough games you will have had less DC players than your opponents have had. If you never disconnect, of course.

You can think about it this way: You are always head. And you get 4 team-mates who will be either head or tail. Just like your 5 opponents. Sure, the enemy team can have more heads than your team this time. But do it again. And again, and again, and again. Would you bet your $100 on enemy teams having more heads more often than you? Lets say you've played 100 games like this. And in deed, the enemy teams really had more heads more often than you. Even though it is unlikely. Then I would tell you: "Go play another 100 games". Remember, I've said "enough" games. And quantity "enough" is not defined. Unwinnable bet.

MysterQ1 votes

But the premise of your first argument is already wrong. Excluding "yourself" as a non-leaver and then assuming the other team is never allowed to have a non-leaver.

Janakin1 votes

From your point of view, everyone else must be considered as a potential leaver.

Anyway, it would be great to have some mechanism for LP loss prevention caused by either team having a DC player, but that would be rather hard to implement...

I mean, few weeks ago I was playing Amumu. We had autofilled supp who picked Syndra and bought some troll items. So the bot was helping me to kill that blue buff monster. When the monster was low, syndra just stole it. I left the game. Of course, I could kill some other jungle creep, go back, get some mana regen items, as amumu is heavily mana dependent champion and slowly come back to game, but why would I? The guy was obviously troll. When the game ended, none even mentioned reporting me. They even said, that syndra started taking all minions on bot and was simply trolling. Should it be me losing LP while saving syndra's?

I play this game for fun and when I have a game with someone literally trolling, I just don't play it and leave.

MysterQ1 votes

Yes, it should be YOU losing LP if you quit and no longer try to win. Just like there should be a system for the Syndra to lose LP, but she should get reported and punished through other means.

A true afk (or even a base hugger) should be detected by the system and others should be forgiven.

KVbqbFsC8e2 votes

It isn't any more unfair than losing for having feeders on your team.

Wicked FlamezZ1 votes

Except AFK literally has no counter play...

If someone is fed on the other team and I am not stronger than him I can except the loss because I did not do enough for the team to either make myself strong enough to beat him or stop the snowball.

If someone AFKs theres not really much you could improve to win the game in the future.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

The other team getting fed is something you often have zero control over. Like AFKing, you will lose games that aren't your fault. If Riot were to ever reduce LP/MMR loss for unfairly losing because of AFKers, then they'd have to do so for feeders using the same basis.

Wicked FlamezZ2 votes

That's just not true though lol. If your consistently having people feed your not providing enough map pressure. If your winning lane and your not 2v1 and 3v1ing the enemy team your throwing your advantage.

Now INTING, intentionally feeding for the purpose of trolling a team (not the same as feeding) isn't workable and should also be reduced. It's fairly easy to determine when someone is inting using death frequency, chat logs, and gold revenue.

If someone is going 0-1; and all the sudden 4m later is 0-5, flaming in chat, and dropped gold by 100/minute riot can conclude this player is inting and refund LP. All of this can be calculated much more indepth using an algorithm existing in riot's API and automatically handled by a bot.

o0O Madoka O0o1 votes

It's designed to prevent win trading. The system gets complicated when you take promenades into account.

Win trading is not as prominent here in NA, but in some servers the post a real problem.

Wicked FlamezZ1 votes

I said that this would be disabled when partied people afk though. Meaning you would literally have to convince a random to take a 20+ lp bullet so another random (you) can have 0lp loss. Good luck, I can't convice a random to do drag at the right time.

o0O Madoka O0o1 votes

{quoted}

I said that this would be disabled when partied people afk though. Meaning you would literally have to convince a random to take a 20+ lp bullet so another random (you) can have 0lp loss. Good luck, I can't convice a random to do drag at the right time.

Of course you can't just ask, you gotta pay.

In China they provide their paypal (Chinese version) in chat and ask people to put money into it (The transfer is instant and generally non-refundable). Some even name their ID as "wintrade paypal xxxxxxx"

Or they resort to QQ coins, the virtual currency of Riot's parent company, Tencent.

Wicked FlamezZ1 votes

I mean if were gonna include paypal transfers as possible abuse then remove all chat so you can't pay to throw games lol. It's clearly not an issue as their are plenty of mechanics you can pay other players for.

o0O Madoka O0o1 votes

{quoted}

I mean if were gonna include paypal transfers as possible abuse then remove all chat so you can't pay to throw games lol. It's clearly not an issue as their are plenty of mechanics you can pay other players for.

I was an actual thing going on on CN server for a while, especially back in the days when you can't drop a major tier. I don't know what it's like right now though, I haven't been playing on CN server for a while.

MysterQ1 votes

I agree with you a lot. Riot NEEDS to fix this, so everyone can enjoy the game. MMR creates a "fair" 5v5 game so 4v5 is NEVER fair.

The arguments against this are just wrong. Abusers - punish those guys, not everyone who wants to play the game "Math" - people clearly don't understand reality

Although, it is complicated no doubt. You shouldn't lose LP for afk/disconnect. But your Yasuo disconnected at the end, how long was it? I mean I hate to be the one to bring these up, but like a 2minute disconnect is obviously different from a 5 minute disconnect. And a disconnect at level1 is different from one at level 12. I mean it goes to show there are a lot of variables to consider. But Riot can implement something for at least some games. Until they find the perfect system.

Wicked FlamezZ1 votes

He dc'ed about 5m from the end of the game. The literal most important part of the game.....the part where barons are taken and games are closed. Afking at the beginning and coming back is workable. You can't come back from an ended game because the enemy team used a 4v5 advantage to get a free baron and molly whop your nexus.

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