You know, Im perfectly fine with Yasuos kit by itself.. but

Penns · 2017-05-31T14:53:14.959Z

why is he allowed to be so tanky? Passive shield that prevents him from being bursted 1v1 unless you are really fed, windwall that can block key spells from many champs like Lux Q, Fizz ult or even Talon W to deny him 3 passive stacks. Then there is PDs stupid dmg reduction, defensive boots and other items like Frozen Mallet, Triforce, GA, Maw, Deaths Dance and life steal in general since he reaches 100% crit and pretty high damage with 2 items anyway so he doesnt really need to build that much more dmg. When he came out this wasnt really a problem since most Yasuos just built into even more damage so they were actually killable ( https://i.gyazo.com/669ae00f318d9e63c45776bdd67e9442.png for example is the first season 5 build guide I found). Its fine that he can melt tanks with free armor pen on ult and its fine that he can cut down your squishies with like 4-5 autos. But what isnt fine is that he can facetank a full Talon combo because he hit him once with PD and bought NInja tabi without even blocking anything with W. Edit: Yes Yasuo has counters and yes he has counterplay, but that doesnt mean he cant be overpowered ever. Azir has counters too, like every champ in this game, yet he was overpowered af after release + bugfixes/buffs.

JoxcabMay 31, 20177 votes

Implying assassins have no counterplay? LOL

PermabannedGarenMay 31, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Implying assassins have no counterplay? LOL

For most mages into mid to late game? No, they don't. If a Zed or Talon jumps on a mage and plays well the mage dies (barring certain fringe cases like Malzahar or Cassiopiea who are mages that excel at dueling, or assassin counters like Annie, or unusually mobile mages like Ahri). The mage can only hope that the assassin makes a mistake they can capitalize on.

I suppose I should have specified immobile mages like Xerath or Karthus.

JoxcabMay 31, 201710 votes

Zed's ultimate always puts him behind his target after a 1 second delay and has a lockout to prevent instant swap. Xerath just fires his stun backwards after ~0.5s.

Zhonya's is a thing as is sticking with the team, which all mages should be doing mid to lategame anyways. If they didn't, they deserve to die. Exhaust on the support, Locket, Redemption, Barrier/Exhaust on the mage mid, and other CC all can shut down an assassin.

Karthus gets cucked but he's sort of a sucker for them because of how old and outdated he is altogether.

And if the assassin plays well, of course the mage should die. Assassins are meant to counter all glass cannon types other than other assassins anyways. Assassins mostly have point blank melee which makes avoiding it impossible for all rights and purposes. That's the whole point. If you let them get that far, you basically deserve to die already.

However, there are dozens of ways to stop them before they can even engage (when they're first flanking -> wards, etc) or at the START of their combo once they DO engage (CC into Zed's face the second he appears behind someone). That's the correct way to stop an assassin.

PermabannedGarenMay 31, 20177 votes

{quoted}

And if the assassin plays well, of course the mage should die.

So you understood what I was saying and chose to debate it anyway?

Suit yourself dude.

JoxcabMay 31, 20175 votes

Except I'm disagreeing with you on your complaint assassins have no counterplay. That is just blatantly wrong no matter what part of the game you are talking about, regardless of matchup.

PermabannedGarenMay 31, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Except I'm disagreeing with you on your complaint assassins have no counterplay.

I wasn't complaining about assassins. I am 100% okay with most mages having little to no real counterplay against an assassin in a 1v1 encounter, which was all that was being discussed. You need to work on your reading comprehension my son.

JoxcabMay 31, 20172 votes

Oh. Then I apologize. I got ahead of myself.

PennsMay 31, 20176 votes

Yes but he is basically a hybrid assassin and his weakness is supposed to be getting popped by assassins looking at his kit. Ekko is classified as "Skirmisher" too.

PermabannedGarenMay 31, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Yes but he is basically a hybrid assassin and his weakness is supposed to be getting popped by assassins looking at his kit. Ekko is classified as "Skirmisher" too.

Ekko's classification was later rescinded. He's now considered an assassin again.

And for much of the game he does get popped by those assassins. Laning against a Talon as Yasuo is a match-up slanted in Talon's favor. Yasuo will just outscale and be able to duel Talon as he gets levels and items to survive and kill him.

He has more trouble with assassins than any other skirmisher tbh.

PennsMay 31, 20175 votes

What else is supposed to be his weakness then? Sure an assassin isnt gonna pop a Camille or a Jax but Yasuo is nothing like those champs. They have other weaknesses but for Yasuo... I really cant think of anything better than "jump on him with 4-5 man and Exhaust him" or "wait for him to overestimate himself and int 1v5 mid game" since thats what every Yasuo player does xd

PermabannedGarenMay 31, 201713 votes

{quoted}

What else is supposed to be his weakness then? Sure an assassin isnt gonna pop a Camille or a Jax but Yasuo is nothing like those champs. They have other weaknesses but for Yasuo... I really cant think of anything better than "jump on him with 4-5 man and Exhaust him" or "wait for him to overestimate himself and int 1v5 mid game" since thats what every Yasuo player does xd

A lot of Yasuo's durability comes from being able to act. Stop him from moving and he can't build up his shield or ult for another shield. Stun him and he can't wind wall. Due to this he is very weak to CC that he can't avoid or wind wall. Warwick is a very strong counter to him throughout the game due to shutting him down in team fights.

He has a very unstable early to mid game, and in lane is one of the most susceptible ganking targets.

He has some of the lowest base stats and bases of any skirmisher or fighter, perhaps the lowest, so he's very fragile early on.

Due to having very little scaling MR he's also very weak to high amount of magic damage, particularly of the kind that's very hard to avoid or point and click. Annie is his hardest mid lane match-up for this reason.

He's also a tier 3 or tier 2 duelist at best. Among skirmishers he gets stomped by Tryndamere, Jax, Master Yi, and perhaps Fiora or Riven, as well as Nasus and probably Xin Zhao. Maybe Warwick.

In general though, you're making the same mistake ADC haters do. You're talking about a near full build Yasuo and using it as his standard power level, when he doesn't actually start with that level of power.

item 3046 item 3047 item 3031 item 3072

This is the minimum amount of items Yasuo needs to duel, say, a Kha'Zix. He might actually need a frozen mallet or GA as well. Yasuo does not start the game with any of these items, lol.

Furthermore, you've brought up Fizz, but honestly? Fizz's rework made that fight so easy for Yasuo as the game goes on. Fizz needs to hit a long range ultimate to do real damage to Yasuo. A long range ultimate from Fizz is exceedingly easy to wind wall, lol.

PennsMay 31, 20172 votes

I mean MR doesnt really matter since Hexdrinker is almost balanced Kappa. CC is also like... yeah, every champ gets countered by cc thats why its cc. Even a tank Gragas is probably gonna get melted late game in the ~1.5 - 2s a Thresh hooks and Es him lol.

Yasuo also starts doing insane dmg at 2 items, most adcs (that dont go bork at least) generally do at like 4 items. And at that point adcs are still oneshot 1v1 while Yasuo with 2 items already has PD, his ~250-300+ shield against burst and defensive boots + windwall.

RalanrMay 31, 20179 votes

Yasuo doesn't have hexdrinker from 1-3 and if he has it before or at 6 then he's lacking crit items (most of his damage).

PennsMay 31, 20173 votes

You also dont oneshot him at level 1-3 and crit isnt really needed early game anyway. https://youtu.be/EL0z4-Eyxfo?t=3m46s almost oneshot in one rotation with Hexdrinker. 3/0/3 doesnt matter because both were level 6 and had about the same gold spent on combat stats.

RalanrMay 31, 20175 votes

You shouldn't one shot him at level 3. You should make it so in terms of stats he ends up having less money than you do for them by level 6.

PennsMay 31, 20171 votes

Why "should" I do that tho? Yasuo with fervor and ignite can just run most champs down and aa them to death lol.

RalanrMay 31, 20175 votes

Well you do have some AA damage reduction anyway. You should just try to harass him within his own minions since he can't E his minions.

Yasuo is incredibly annoying, but it's not like you can't abuse his early.

Hella KaiserMay 31, 20172 votes

he has an easier time farming that 90% of melee champs, and pressure you with the tornado...

PermabannedGarenMay 31, 20178 votes

{quoted}

I mean MR doesnt really matter since Hexdrinker is almost balanced Kappa.

If Yasuo has to rush hexdrinker he's in a losing match-up and won't do much damage.

CC is also like... yeah, every champ gets countered by cc thats why its cc. Even a tank Gragas is probably gonna get melted late game in the ~1.5 - 2s a Thresh hooks and Es him lol.

Sorry, but I have zero tolerance for this bullshit cowardly argument.

A full tank wants to absorb CC. That's one of their main jobs. And while they can be focused down and killed, in a team fight it will take longer and while you're doing it you could expose your team to being killed by the enemy's damage dealers.

By contrast, if Yasuo is CC'd he almost immediately dies and one of the carries is now gone, meaning his team will probably lose the team fight.

CC does not counter big beefy durable characters like tanks, Warwick, or whoever as much as it does squishy melee damage dealers like Yasuo.

Yasuo also starts doing insane dmg at 2 items

His damage is strictly inferior at two items to a Master Yi, Fiora's, and a Tryndamere against non-beefy targets. He's also squishier than all but perhaps Fiora.

most adcs (that dont go bork at least) generally do at like 4 items. And at that point adcs are still oneshot 1v1 while Yasuo with 2 items already has PD, his ~250-300+ shield against burst and defensive boots + windwall.

ADCs are generally not duelists. Yasuo is.

They're also ranged, which provides more safety than all of Yasuo's safety mechanics. Hence why not a single ADC dies as much as Yasuo on average except for Quinn.

http://lolalytics.com/detailed/

Yasuo with a PD and IE rush is still very squishy and easily focused down.

SalsonMay 31, 20175 votes

He's a skirmisher, he wants to 1v1 people just like the rest of them Riven Fiora Tryndamere Jax MasterYi .

People hate him because he ran away from toplane where his brethren live and went mid, where he can 1v1 almost anyone.

AmazoXMay 31, 20174 votes

No, Yasuo excels at Top Lane more than Mid Lane.

SalsonMay 31, 20177 votes

After mid season, sure.

But the mid lane Yasuo is bitched about far more that his top lane conterpart. Mostly because most midlaners can't 1v1 him, and their ego prevents them from asking jungle assistance. That's why high elo midlaners don't ban him, if you play to win you don't HAVE to 1v1 someone made to 1v1.

Automated RivenMay 31, 20177 votes

Rivens current build leaves her far tankier then yasuo tho.

You know, Im perfectly fine with Yasuos kit by itself.. but

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