I came to this forum to get some answers, but till now I'm dissapointed. Some of my topics have no answers/comments at all, on rest of them few of you gave me some informations but their are not accurate, and competent. There is no admin or moderator who are responsible to helping people with questions?
MrFawknSunshine3 voteswell you ask random questions in an open forum and expect 100% accurate/competent answers and cuz you dont get them you think its full of bots?
mack91121 votesWhat do you wanna know man
Neosphoros1 voteshttps://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/pl/c/gameplay-balance/eRfE31Tw-how-liandrys-torment-works
...if you will be able to answer at least just on one I will be appreciate
mack91121 votesI'll take a look on my coffee break !
Kai Guy2 votes@ Matchmaker. Basically it just Grabs folks near your MMR and trys to build teams with similar mmr. Note MMR and Divisions are not the same thing. Source
Just like it says If a Target is slowed then it takes amped damage. Your better off using the Wiki for item questions, its not always accurate but it tends to have solid information on item interactions. its more in-depth then anything in the games client at least
Honor progression is undefined. It weights different things then just # of honor received. For example you get a bit extra progression if every player on a team honors. Heres the FAQ
Hard to say due to ISP. Riot gave everbody this Tool to get an idea of their net.
In client. Some stats tracked by going to profile, stats, pick the champion your curious about. Honestly 3rd party is still the way to go, Op.Gg is solid.
Zill shows up in my clients Stats as a support so You may need to use the mini arrow to show more. Again Op.GG is likely going to have better info for you.
Player communicates and does not behave like a bot. Most bots are awfull and their behavior is visiable. Try VS Ai some times and your gonna see some bots, on your team as well.
Rylias Animation is applied when the debuff is applied. Your correct, slows don't stack. How ever the animation for rylias does need to be applied. The animations not for you, because you as a player bought the item and know you have it and know you have a slow. The animations to tell enemy and allies a slow is applied. The animation also gives folks a visual que that translates into knowing when your going to be out of the debuff. Honestly some players are so bad they don't even use tab to check allie and enemy builds so having clear and consistent Visuals is needed. Ultimatly Rylias visual is for other players, so Trying to adjust the visual to only show when its the relevant slow is a lot of effort for no real reward.
Tldr Its animation shows when it should, when it gets applied. Just like the animation for spell blade shows after casting regardless of if you use the empowered auto in time. Visual warnings are just that.
Neosphoros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-11-29T19:07:17.598+0000)
@ Matchmaker. Basically it just Grabs folks near your MMR and trys to build teams with similar mmr. Note MMR and Divisions are not the same thing. Source
For this moment it looks like everyone belives that MMR is something like an universal truth. Nobody knows what is his own MMR, nobody knows how does it work but everyone belives that is working - this is stupid - Is not it like that? There is something like this already... this is called faith, but it is nothing to do with knowledge (also not with religion) but more with, that pink unicorn - exist.
Just like it says If a Target is slowed then it takes amped damage. Your better off using the Wiki for item questions, its not always accurate but it tends to have solid information on item interactions. its more in-depth then anything in the games client at least
But this is stupid becouse it means, that every player - to have possibility to play in LOL on fair-play basis it is forced by RIOT to look about proper knowledge outside the game - somewhere on the internet. Those informations should be included to the game.
Honor progression is undefined. It weights different things then just # of honor received. For example you get a bit extra progression if every player on a team honors. Heres the FAQ
But how you can expect that everything is right if those informations (how many positive voices we have) is hidden from us.
Exactly the same is with MMR... RIOT force us to believe, that animal which standing a front of us - is a pink unicorn.
Hard to say due to ISP. Riot gave everbody this Tool to get an idea of their net.
This is extremely stupid. This the way how the trolls are created. This tool should be build in-game in other way, if there is not, how can we (as a players) know if somebody really have problem with high ping or if he is a troll or if that problem has nothing to do with RIOT servers.
In client. Some stats tracked by going to profile, stats, pick the champion your curious about. Honestly 3rd party is still the way to go, Op.Gg is solid.
I'm not thinking about that kind of statistics. I'm asking about exact amount of kills, deaths, assists, turrets destroyed, demage, etc. Even few months ago there was possibility to check informations like this on lolking.net and few other websites now those websites not existing anymore.
Zill shows up in my clients Stats as a support so You may need to use the mini arrow to show more. Again Op.GG is likely going to have better info for you.
With your answer I may think that you believes that I'm stupid. I have to surprise you... I even know how to use a - mouse. No, Zilean not shows up on my support list.
Player communicates and does not behave like a bot. Most bots are awfull and their behavior is visiable. Try VS Ai some times and your gonna see some bots, on your team as well.
After more than 3000 games I have already played I can say that I have seen everything... every kind of communication and behaviour... so please dont tell me, that you know it for sure and bots are behaving in some specific scripted way... they can behave similiar to a human.
- Rylias Animation is applied when the debuff is applied. Your correct, slows don't stack. How ever the animation for rylias does need to be applied. The animations not for you, because you as a player bought the item and know you have it and know you have a slow. The animations to tell enemy and allies a slow is applied. The animation also gives folks a visual que that translates into knowing when your going to be out of the debuff. Honestly some players are so bad they don't even use tab to check allie and enemy builds so having clear and consistent Visuals is needed. Ultimatly Rylias visual is for other players, so Trying to adjust the visual to only show when its the relevant slow is a lot of effort for no real reward.
But it makes no sense.
I will use an example:
If you wear a red sweater on you, and after that you will wear a huge blue jacket on this sweater, this sweater will not be visible... moreover - this sweater will not warm you (contrary to - in game "logic" -> slowdowns values do not sum up) together with blue jacket. Which is mean sweater (Rylai) will be not visible and will be not warming (slowdown will be not working) -> slow down animation should be not visible (in case of used more powerfull slowdown).
That is why I'm thinking that "normal" people (players) should not give their answers to the specific questions (RIOT admins/moderators should do) - because they are "believes" or they are "thinking" but they are not "know" for sure.
... let me copy your answers to the right topics too
Kai Guy2 votesThat would imply that we know nothing about how Elo systems work. See we know from seasons 1 and 2 Riot uses a Modified Team Elo system, it used to show MMR. What you can do is look for the 50 percentile of player base average. At some point half the players are above or below a Tier so we can set that as a reference point for what riots starting MMR is likely to be. Pretty shure this is what most 3rd party folks do.
Riots not putting a mystery infront of us, we know the system being used and we know the results from using that system. Bad players fall, good players rise. Consistently if you take a cool at the skill gap between lower to top mmr ever year we can see this is true. Now, for why Riot hides individual mmr? 1. Abuse cases, they don't want folks looking for ways to minipulate their modifications to team elo. 2. They don't want to give competitors their fourmula and modifications for free. 3. It encourages players to play more games. The Division system is more engageing for a large # of players. Theres a reason it started popping up a few years back into pretty much every competitive ladder game.
You have to be careful when discussing weather or not we can take things on faith, if you question everything and imply that you cant trust some ones words theres no grounds to communicate. For example Is there any way you can prove Neosphoros That we are not the same person using two accounts to have a conversation with himself/herself? If we discredit everything you reply with as dishonest then no, how ever it would be stupid to do so because its honestly a very unlikely situation.
Is there any reason to assume riots not using something at its core built around the Elo system? Yes or no? If its Elo we can check it by its results, the results are what we expect from an elo system. Do you have any disagreement on this? If so please list what competitive ladder modle you think riots using if its not built around elo.
@game knowlage from outside sources. No reason for them to do this ever. They want players to test and learn. Curious about an interaction go test it. Mobas got a rough burden of knowledge on their players, this is how its always been. To require the company to provide a up to date list in client is pretty much the same as asking them to put the entire wikis worth of information into the client. and pay some one to do this and maintain it. And honestly as devs the probably would rather see players take tests to a game and spend more time playing the game then sitting in client reading.
Trial by error to improve in a game is nothing new for gamers, its an online game, is there any reason we need to assume a player cant use a search engine here? Be realistic be pragmatic, does it make sound logic for riot to spend resources on creating a massive in client data base of game information relating to individual champion to item mechanics when several already exist and cost them nothing? Players are not forced to do this, you can learn a lot just by playing the game. Hell most folks learn better by experience then reading.
@ Honor. Again we can see the systems end goal and compaire it to that. Do negative players who get punished lose honor? Yes. Do Players who frequently get honor grow? Yes. Not an act of complete faith. If you want to say riots lying to us on how it works then the burden of proof is on you. You saying we cant trust the guys who made the system to tell us how their system works requires us to take you on faith.
@ Interent issues. If your nets bad you will know your nets bad. You have in game ping, If your in game ping goes from 80 to 400 for what ever reason, a pre game test would not show this. No one with awful internet is surprised their nets awful. Players know the condition of their net better then riot ever will. If you dc and ruin so many games that you get punished, you honestly had it comeing. Theres no way to plead ignorance that you had no idea that a long string of games your net would screw you up.... despite the fact that is consistently been screwing you up. Locking players with a bad ping out of games just hurts the folks who want to play even with shit net and are willing to risk a game here and there to their net. If some one tells you their lagging ask them for a ping. You can do this in game and share your Ping with teammates with a few clicks. its easy.
@ Lolking died.
Not riots job. Use other 3rd party tools. Op.Gg is solid.
@ I checked my tabs! NO ZILLIAN
Aight, just letting you know that I have Zill in my support tab and I barely played the guy, might want to send in a support ticket if you truly care. Much easyer then asking players who cant inherently help you besides their experiences.
@Human level Bots.
HAAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHA. Show me one. Please, Show me a bot that's able to communicate and play at a convincingly human level. You want to say it exists? burdens on you, prove it.
@Rylas/
Its not a coat, its not clothing. Unrelated but honestly if your jacket was unzipped people could easily see the red Sweater under it if they in front, or if it was longer and stuck out of the jacket, or had a hood.
anyhow, ITS A VISUAL QUE FOR A DEBUFF! Its job is to communicate to players that a debuff has been applied and what debuff that is. Slows don't affect a champion standing still, but you still need to know if your slowed right? Its visual lets players know your slowed for 1 second. Regardless of if that slow makes any impact or not its animation exists to inform and signal players.
Its about a Gameplay perspective, Why does 
Q some times stun, logical why? 
throws a Star at people and it does less damage then some 
having a shark bite you. Why do Slows not stack? Because to many stacked slows remove Movement, its a root. Why does the animation show up when ever its applied even if its not inherently relevant? Because its not always going to be relevant to gameplay but it still needs to be broadcast that its applied. Players learn to use Debuff animations to judge their cc duration. Removing the animation temporarily and having it show up latter removes the consistency of animation to duration counting. 1 second after you see the animation you know its duration ends. This changes if you cant see the animation on application. Your logic should be comeing form what is the gameplay reason for this? Not... coats and sweaters. Its a visual to represent a gameplay aspect not a visual just to look cool.
@This is why I don't want player responses. Yea well I gave you A bunch of Riot faqs and your attitudes cant trust them. So your attitude is that I am a "believer" for taking the companies word for things and that the only solutions for said company to provide more information?
Neosphoros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T22:29:24.847+0000)
That would imply that we know nothing about how Elo systems work. See we know from seasons 1 and 2 Riot uses a Modified Team Elo system, it used to show MMR. What you can do is look for the 50 percentile of player base average. At some point half the players are above or below a Tier so we can set that as a reference point for what riots starting MMR is likely to be. Pretty shure this is what most 3rd party folks do.
Information that "RIOT uses a modified team elo system" it means exactly - that it means everything and nothing in reference to it - speaking about MMR without specific details have no sense. But fact is, that we dont know nothing about this system and only RIOT force us to believe that is exist.
Riots not putting a mystery infront of us, we know the system being used and we know the results from using that system. Bad players fall, good players rise. Consistently if you take a cool at the skill gap between lower to top mmr ever year we can see this is true. Now, for why Riot hides individual mmr? 1. Abuse cases, they don't want folks looking for ways to minipulate their modifications to team elo. 2. They don't want to give competitors their fourmula and modifications for free. 3. It encourages players to play more games. The Division system is more engageing for a large # of players. Theres a reason it started popping up a few years back into pretty much every competitive ladder game.
We do not know MMR and only result we know is that "some" players/profiles are moving betwean "some" divisions... but it is difficult to say that "good players..." when - your position in the table may depend on trolls or afks in your team (in last 6 games I had 2 times AFK, and 2 times troll in team... so, just think how it would look my progresion/regresion if those game would be a ranked games).
All your reasons that RIOT do not want to reveal how the MMR works - are so good, same as they are bad. They are good only for RIOT - and bad for us (players) - becouse we can not verify how it is working - and if it is working.
Moreover your reasons may have nothing to do with the reasons that RIOT may have. Your information about their MMR system - this is only you opinion... but in the same way I could also wrote that RIOT do not want to tell us how MMR works because it is not works fair for every player, and maybe it is working for provide most profits.
You have to be careful when discussing weather or not we can take things on faith, if you question everything and imply that you cant trust some ones words theres no grounds to communicate. For example Is there any way you can prove Neosphoros That we are not the same person using two accounts to have a conversation with himself/herself? If we discredit everything you reply with as dishonest then no, how ever it would be stupid to do so because its honestly a very unlikely situation.
I'm questioning only things that may have effect on me. If i see the things that works in different way that they should - I'm start thinking - "why?".
I can not prove that "you" are not "me" but it would means that I'm very smart guy ;). In other way - denying to myself would be like a triumph of form over content. I am missing out on the fact that it would be a huge waste of time considering that I am very lazy.
Is there any reason to assume riots not using something at its core built around the Elo system? Yes or no? If its Elo we can check it by its results, the results are what we expect from an elo system. Do you have any disagreement on this? If so please list what competitive ladder modle you think riots using if its not built around elo.
Of course that we can. Elo may works only in case of 5-players (the same players) flex games. If there is - solo/duo when the rest of team is choosen randomly (in the meaning of - every time - different player) - it can not be - ELO system. Amount of variables (player position, in-game performing, AFK, trolls, etc.) does not allow to correctly estimate specyfic indicator.
Teoretycly there is a chance to create good system but ELO sytem has nothing to do with it. Moreover I'm able to say that from my observation RIOT system have many different other assumptions.
Kai Guy1 votesI do not want you take this personally, but you are not showing a clear understanding of how MMR systems work. im going to pull a few quotes from you.
We do not know MMR and only result we know is that "some" players/profiles are moving betwean "some" divisions... but it is difficult to say that "good players..."
First knowing your MMR is irrelevant largely. The actual MMR numbers don't matter too much because devs get to pick what a starting MMR is, what the K factor is. when and where the K factor changes. Plus the modifications I keep mentioning are also a factor.
But good players or bad players moving up and down, why is that not something we can check? MMR systems have a starting point that is the same for every account ( ish… to be fair devs can totally change this number if they desire because they are the devs. If they care about competitive integrity they wont do it mid season however. Doing the starting number as RNG hurts the system and players so there is no justifiable reason for that) The system takes points from a player on losses and adds points on wins. If the modifications don't introduces extra points then we know that the starting MMR score is going to represent roughtly 50 Percentile marker of a games ranked ladder. Around that point we will see half the players are going to be above half the players will be below.
To check this system for functionality, do accounts at the bottom consistently represent the least skilled players? Do accounts at the top consistently represent the best? Looking at mobas, personally I don't see any way for folks to claim the contrary and say that they are having this discussion in good faith and being fair in their observations.
BUT KAI! SMURFS AND BOUGHT ACCOUNTS! That's cheating the system my friend, its something outside of mmr and matchmakers control. This is not a discussion about abusing a system or cheating, its about if it functions as intended and how it functions. The system assumes 1 player is behind 1 account.
So first test on if we will end up having to agree to disagree. In games that claim to use MMR systems, can you or can you not see a gap in skill between the bottom percentile of players vs the top? its a very simple yes or no and I will hold you to answer this.
Information that "RIOT uses a modified team elo system" it means exactly - that it means everything and nothing in reference to it - speaking about MMR without specific details have no sense. But fact is, that we dont know nothing about this system and only RIOT force us to believe that is exist.
It actually means a lot. It means we can look for signs that MMR system is in place. Like I said in my first response, information on MMR systems and how they function exists. We can look at that and compare riots Leauge system to it. Its not a void of knowledge thus expectations on the end result of a systems functionality are reasonable when we know what a system will reasonably accomplished. For the record that expectation is that Skill matters in winning games, Bad player then will fall down ladder over time with games played and good ones will rise.
One thing that you need to get, its a algorithm build around variables that are constantly changing. Its not a set thing, the system needs to account for doubt on your skill (low # of games played. Hellooooooo higher K factor!) as well as your opponents and teammates. A very common misconception is that folks take the Elo systems adjustment formula New Elo = old elo + Kfactor (Result of match - expected result of match from system) This works aight for a 1v1 but needs to be adjusted for teammates. A teams combined MMR does not inherently reflect the teams individual skill, using that formula to adjust a single player on a teams MMR is doomed to fail. At a minimum You need to modify the K factor by player around how much weight you think the player is expected to carry. the players the system thinks are the best on each team run the highest risk reward for gaining or losing MMR.
This may not seem entirely fair to you because the system is some what RNG on who your teammates are and what MMR the players in the game will be. I get that, But its more fair then the alternative. Remember that the system works off the principle that skill matters. Even with out a modification for Weight remember that a players K factor is going to change around the # of games the play so folks will gain or lose more MMR then teammates simply off a gap in games played.
MMR score alone, one more time, means nothing. Its an arbitrary number devs can pick. Seeing your account go up 40 points after a game? In a different game that could be 400, or 4000. Seeing your Accounts MMR score change with out the devs providing the full algorithm for your accounts current state means you know jack shit about if it is or is not fair. I bring this point up because you have to understand a simple fact here. Riots not alone in hiding the exact mechanics behind their system. Every single moba I know does this. Dota2, HotS, Smite, BattleRite, Hell the entire Microsoft Trueskill system does not provide this information to players.
Teoretycly there is a chance to create good system but ELO sytem has nothing to do with it. Moreover I'm able to say that from my observation RIOT system have many different other assumptions.
Now @ riots league system. It still functions off MMR. Devs don't claim other wise, Building the system to work around what Tier or division your in is flawed and less effective then just using MMR. The league system exists because it makes players feel better about their rank. Look about half the ladder is only ever going to go down in MMR so hiding that makes folks feel better. They are idiots who don't understand MMR but hey that's ok. Riots not even hiding this man they blatantly told us this is the case, their matchmaker still works off MMR systems. This was true 2013 and remains true today.
Neosphoros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=0001000000010002000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T09:18:58.334+0000)
I do not want you take this personally, but you are not showing a clear understanding of how MMR systems work. im going to pull a few quotes from you.
I know how "systems" works... I do not know how LOL MMR system work (this specific system).
general assumption of the (traditional) MMR system is to evaluate specific player with his game 1vs1 and it based on ELO that comes from chess system. System ELO does exist also in case of team games but there whole team can be assesed as a whole element not as a single players - which is mean that in the case of randomly slected players - it make no sense at all.
How to assess a player for example: if he lost a game becouse his teammate was AFK. if MMR depends from won and lost games (as you said) or loosing a game?
First knowing your MMR is irrelevant largely. The actual MMR numbers don't matter too much because devs get to pick what a starting MMR is, what the K factor is. when and where the K factor changes. Plus the modifications I keep mentioning are also a factor.
If it is about system that will have to assess us to place us in right division - everythings matter.
Try to imagine - Few minutes ago I have lost a game only because my team was feeding. in 15 minutes we were loosing ~20 : 1. TOP have lost his lane in 10 minutes (with whole game score 1:10), our jungler did not know how to play at all loosing game on 2:10... and it is because TOP have lost, jg have lost, mid lost - enemy was able to attack my lane (bot).
How this system working if in 10 minutes "equal" players represent absolutly different experience level?
It is because my teammates brake the game... I will have to assessed by system in negative way because I lost game?
Funniest thing is that even I had not receive any honor point after this game - my honor level went up... for what? is this some form of apology for "unsuitable" allies...
But good players or bad players moving up and down, why is that not something we can check? MMR systems have a starting point that is the same for every account ( ish… to be fair devs can totally change this number if they desire because they are the devs. If they care about competitive integrity they wont do it mid season however. Doing the starting number as RNG hurts the system and players so there is no justifiable reason for that) The system takes points from a player on losses and adds points on wins. If the modifications don't introduces extra points then we know that the starting MMR score is going to represent roughtly 50 Percentile marker of a games ranked ladder. Around that point we will see half the players are going to be above half the players will be below.
You writing your comments by trying to create some paradigmes. Nobody knows how it works - but you do. Even RIOT did not explain how MMR exactly works. Moreover... your comments may suggest that you are someone more than just a normal player. You are not even trying to undermine anything that you have learned. With full of your strenght you trying to defend whole RIOT/LOL rights - which is weird for "normal player". If your knowledge is the right one - it will be the same as confession of RIOT "worker"... and if you are - you are answers can not be objective in other way you are know not more than me, and your opinion can be wrong.
Kai Guy1 votesHere are questions I asked you I need a clear simple Reply. Yes or no is enough, elaborate if you want. I previously asked for This
In games that claim to use MMR systems, can you or can you not see a gap in skill between the bottom percentile of players vs the top? its a very simple yes or no and I will hold you to answer this.
Also for the 3rd time.
I told you to give the system you think they use if its not Elo/MMR. I will ask you again to please do so.
I also need you to directly address this. Next question. What company's that use MMR/ELO/Trueskill Publicly share their full algorithms? (I can save you some googling and let you know that Dota2, hots,leauge, and smite do not.)
I truly want you to respond to those.
Look, i am not trying to be a dick , im not trying to belittle you, I don't have insider information on riots system. Im spending the time to post because of one simple thing. You do not seem to understand how team MMR systems work. my friend I don't mean any disrespect by this.
Heres what you need to understand.
I just want you to understand that the questions your asking and the stuff your demanding is unrealistic. I want you to take the time to learn about MMR systems, how and why they work for games. what other options are out there the pros and cons for that.
Look, There is no easy way to really judge some ones skill 100% accurately in advanced of them playing games. So we cant have a 100% accurate system. I like MMR because I find that systems built to be self correcting and rewards skill are good for a competitive ladder. I was around when Mobas did not have good matchmakeing. I used to play a lot of Dota allstars back in wc3 days. There was 0 matchmaking outside of 3rd party programs that used elo as their base. It was a feature often included in a decent banlist.
I am not claiming I know how riots MMR system works. I am saying that there's enough information about MMR systems that you can check Riots statements vs Basic expectations from MMR. You can look at the result at the end if it matches expectation. Its like Solve For X, 7+ x = 10
I'm saying that some of the things your asking for have no value and require a complete reveal of the entire system, and that's a unrealistic expectation for a company.
I'm saying that the reasonable assumption is that a simple solution that works consistently is superior to something complex that does not even function as well as the simple solution.
Neosphoros1 votesIn one time - I can only answer on few of your comments... I'm busy last time
[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T03:49:51.069+0000)
In games that claim to use MMR systems, can you or can you not see a gap in skill between the bottom percentile of players vs the top? its a very simple yes or no and I will hold you to answer this.
LOL is the only game I'm playing. Can you explain please what do you mean: "gap in skill between the bottom percentile of players vs the top?"
I told you to give the system you think they use if its not Elo/MMR. I will ask you again to please do so.
ELO system is specified and build for chess - so it is even stupid to trying to use it for different games moreover if chess is a 1vs1 type game and LOL is 5vs5.
MMR as a MatchMaking Reating it could be a general name for any system so it simply possible to say that ELO is MMR but system build in LOL (if it exist) should be something absolutely different than ELO - it contain much more variables than ELO which using this system for other (LOL) games would be something irrational
Next question. What company's that use MMR/ELO/Trueskill Publicly share their full algorithms? (I can save you some googling and let you know that Dota2, hots,leauge, and smite do not.)
I do not know which company do... like I wrote before - I'm playing only in LOL.
True is that ELO is described and known and is possible to check his formula. If it was not possible, it could be considered a form of manipulation.
It is not imposible to create "any" MMR system. It is easy to create one but it is difficult to create a good one. Every company can have differentone but it does not mean it working fine.
I truly want you to respond to those.
Look, i am not trying to be a dick , im not trying to belittle you, I don't have insider information on riots system. Im spending the time to post because of one simple thing. You do not seem to understand how team MMR systems work. my friend I don't mean any disrespect by this.
Maybe - I do not. Explain me please.
- You think knowing your MMR number would show the system works or is working well. that watching it go up or down is some how more fair or accurate then seeing yourself climb ladder up or down. (to a small extend your not entirely wrong, leagues do sometimes have folks misplaced and misrted. But it does not negatively interfere with how matches are built so at the worst some players need to play some extra games and other will end with a higher rank then actual represents them if they quit playing ranked.)
Exactly. Only by knowing your MMR number, and formula you can verify if it works properly or not.
- You made the admittedly common mistake of adjusting a 1v1 elo to be team elo with improper compensation for team play. You just subbed Player for Team in the adjustment math.
Explain me please how system will behave if I will have a AFK, troll in team? What will happened with my MMR?
- You think individual games matter to the system.
Should be.
4.Your ignoring information the devs provide and trying to figure it out from scratch. Rather then check their words vs reality to see if there's inconsistency's, your assuming as the potential exists for falsehood we need to discount all information provided as if its untrue.
Yes. In other way player can be punished for whole team - that he even do not know.
- Your acting like knowledge of systems like this is not available to be studied. That we can only use personal observation of league to figure out if its an mmr system. The theory behind team MMR systems has been tested and math used in the tests is publicly available.
No it is not. Information about (LOL) MMR formula is hidden.
Neosphoros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T03:49:51.069+0000)
Heres what you need to understand.
- Devs pick the starting point, the K factor, the Gains. Folks using Bronze to diamond style ladders pick what percentile of players they want each division to represent. Each system uses its own variables, all picked by the dev. Modifications and adjustments can be made at the devs whims. Its not a universal system, its not like the metric. The way it works is all around variables that are completely arbitrary, so long as they follow some basic principles. Example, You play 2 different video games. you have the same skill in them and the same win rates. In Game A your MMR is 1200 and your a silver player. A new win will get you 300 MMR. In game B your mmr is 1800 and your a bronze player. A new win will get you 80 MMR.. In both games you in 35% of the top because they also magically have the exact same # of players. (Ranked better then 65% of the games playerbase.) The numbers alone are not important because they don't mean anything w out the rest of the system.
So... it simply means that system not working fair for each of us because a system factors may be not connected with players skills at all, but with some elements that are not included to gameplay.
- I mentioned it in my last response. In team games you have to mod it at the very least to account for weight. the players the system things will carry more weight have a bigger stake in the outcome of a match. This also needs to be in relation to the K factor, Each player needs their individual K factor sperate from the team. The more uncertain accounts need to get up or down faster then the folks with high # of games. Those are the players who bring the most negative impact to a matches balance.
So question is what is the "K" factor?
Does not matter what - it is difficult to say that system working fine... at least, fine for me (fine - in the meaning of "fair" - fair in the meaning that playing with created in specific way (by system) team I will have the same chances to win as enemy team do... last game I lost 5:36 and becouse of that have the chance to be promoted in the table with the proper speed or be promoted at all).
- This information is old and may be outdated, previously in a FAQ riot listed their expectations for their Matchmaker to be 150 to 300 games for you to hit your "true Matchmaking Rating". Now in A 5 man basic Elo/MMR that's just modified for K factor and weight like I talked about, its going to be in the range of 400 to 600. A bad player that really hurts their team? that player is bad in every single game they are in. You see them once, you always occupied 20% of your team slots. Odds favor you as a player that the enemy team will have Baddies that lose more then your team because your team has you. (typically folks argue HA THEN THE ENEMY TEAM HAS BETTER ODDS FOR THE BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME! At which point...they are admitting skill matters and they don't consider themselves good enough to consistently be the best player in a match. This is where I kindly thank them for making my point for me. End of the day, skill matters in a skill game and law of # favors good players in MMR systems) If you don't have the ability to commit the time to play a high # of games then you don't have the time to counter RNG. If a player said matchmakers unfair because he only played 5 games all season, Face palm.
It suggest that team can be build to just "fill" difference between my high skills (or experience if you like), rest of my team and whole enemy team like... if for example (hidden) overall team MMR (as experience) is 2000 it means that enemy team should have exactly the same to compensate end score - 2000:2000. Fallowing... easiest way for system will be to build a team with members with 400MMR point each (in every team)... but what if one of those players have for example MMR=1600 (teretycly) ? Rest of the team members will have like 4x100? But...
What if in specific moment of time there will be no "equivalent" enemy player to compensate a difference between most experienced red team player and blue team player?
What if even both teams will have overall MMR (ex) = 2000, but one will be build like:
a=1600 b,c,d,e=100
and the enemy team will be:
f,g,h,i,j=400
sometimes one player is not enough
- Team MMR systems have been tested and found to be workable. They have pros and cons. Some of their cons for players (need large # of games) are pros for a company. The pros for players are it enables matchmaker to be more competitive. Bad players sink over time good ones rises up. They over time tend to get pretty accurate in their measurements of a player. They are superior to systems that 100% RNG build teammates because that does not make for fair teams. They are superior to systems that only Track wins because skill is a 0 factor when all that's required to top the leaderboard is having the most time to play the game. A con is that luck tends to be a factor when your near your skill range cuz More impact from teamamtes, the pro to that is if you increase your skill you start to see yourself climb faster. Keeping games in a range of acceptable MMR helps keep players from experiences gross mismatches in skill. Some folks cheat this by using smurfs/buying accounts. But the system will place those guys where they belong over time as well.
"Workable" in business process can mean absolute something different than player may think and have nothing to do with player skills but only with company profits.
Look, There is no easy way to really judge some ones skill 100% accurately in advanced of them playing games. So we cant have a 100% accurate system. I like MMR because I find that systems built to be self correcting and rewards skill are good for a competitive ladder. I was around when Mobas did not have good matchmakeing. I used to play a lot of Dota allstars back in wc3 days. There was 0 matchmaking outside of 3rd party programs that used elo as their base. It was a feature often included in a decent banlist.
...but if the team loosing after 10 min 1:20 it is obvius that that something is not right
...and if "I can" increase my win-ratio from 51% to 75% in just only one day, but after that loose severall games in a row that will decrease win-ratio to just only 27%
...and if will you connect that with AKFs, troll
,,,it simply suggest you that there is nothing like "equal" chances for every player, but the system trying to keep you in the same place as you were last time
Try to imagine that about 2 months ago (when I was less bussy) I was moving from from 1st position in s4 to last position in s5... please do not try to say it is normal.
I am not claiming I know how riots MMR system works. I am saying that there's enough information about MMR systems that you can check Riots statements vs Basic expectations from MMR. You can look at the result at the end if it matches expectation. Its like Solve For X, 7+ x = 10
RIOT statement is like:
"There is MMR system" :D
I'm saying that some of the things your asking for have no value and require a complete reveal of the entire system, and that's a unrealistic expectation for a company.
Maybe, but it means that we can not believe that system working fine (fair) and only thx to our hard work (efford, skills, experience) we may achieve our target
Neosphoros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T22:29:24.847+0000)
@game knowlage from outside sources. No reason for them to do this ever. They want players to test and learn. Curious about an interaction go test it. Mobas got a rough burden of knowledge on their players, this is how its always been. To require the company to provide a up to date list in client is pretty much the same as asking them to put the entire wikis worth of information into the client. and pay some one to do this and maintain it. And honestly as devs the probably would rather see players take tests to a game and spend more time playing the game then sitting in client reading.
Interaction is something else than knowledge about the game. Many things are not that obvious how they are look like on the beginning and they are need some explanation but why we should look for those explanation somewhere else than in game? It is like to buy some thing. If you will do you can be sure that manual guide will be included with the item you bought.
For example, I have learned (only becouse not so long time ago - one player - which I played against - told me that) that "slowdowns" from skills and items are not connecting like 1 + 1 but only strongest "slowdown" remains. So think, how many games I could loose - just becouse - things are working in different way than logic lead us to think. If not this player probobly, I could never know that I'm making that mistake because information about "slowdowns" is included only in patch 5.13. Please, do not say that we have to read every patch note to learn how to play the game. Teoretycly we can but some of patch notes include informations about elements of game that eliminate other elements and some patch notes just only informed us about basics things. there is no systematics in this. It is difficult to expect from players to read every patch note moreover if those patch notes contain information that may be mutually exclusive.
Trial by error to improve in a game is nothing new for gamers, its an online game, is there any reason we need to assume a player cant use a search engine here? Be realistic be pragmatic, does it make sound logic for riot to spend resources on creating a massive in client data base of game information relating to individual champion to item mechanics when several already exist and cost them nothing? Players are not forced to do this, you can learn a lot just by playing the game. Hell most folks learn better by experience then reading.
Some of players can do, and some of them do not. Like I wrote before - knowledge for example about "slowdown" mechanics it is not logic and it is almost impossible to learn how it works for real by just only playing the game.
@ Honor. Again we can see the systems end goal and compaire it to that. Do negative players who get punished lose honor? Yes. Do Players who frequently get honor grow? Yes. Not an act of complete faith. If you want to say riots lying to us on how it works then the burden of proof is on you. You saying we cant trust the guys who made the system to tell us how their system works requires us to take you on faith.
I'm not saying that RIOT is lying, but I'm not saying that all his actions are transparent, which means that they can be honest. If we can not verify something, we can not be sure that we are treated equally with others - justly.
@ Interent issues. If your nets bad you will know your nets bad. You have in game ping, If your in game ping goes from 80 to 400 for what ever reason, a pre game test would not show this. No one with awful internet is surprised their nets awful. Players know the condition of their net better then riot ever will. If you dc and ruin so many games that you get punished, you honestly had it comeing. Theres no way to plead ignorance that you had no idea that a long string of games your net would screw you up.... despite the fact that is consistently been screwing you up. Locking players with a bad ping out of games just hurts the folks who want to play even with shit net and are willing to risk a game here and there to their net. If some one tells you their lagging ask them for a ping. You can do this in game and share your Ping with teammates with a few clicks. its easy.
So if you have slow internet connection, what is the point in allowing you to play with others if it can spoil them? You will not be happy of gameplay same as they will do not.
You could forget about the games in normal mode because we mostly playing for fun / training, but ranked games should require some kind of standard from us and from the internet connection.
@ Lolking died.
Not riots job. Use other 3rd party tools. Op.Gg is solid.
Lolking had contain much more information than op.gg ever had. Interesting is fact that from some time RIOT eliminating possibility to conroll our knowledge about the game:
@ I checked my tabs! NO ZILLIAN
Aight, just letting you know that I have Zill in my support tab and I barely played the guy, might want to send in a support ticket if you truly care. Much easyer then asking players who cant inherently help you besides their experiences.
Can you share you lol-support-statistics screenshoot please?
@Human level Bots.
HAAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHA. Show me one. Please, Show me a bot that's able to communicate and play at a convincingly human level. You want to say it exists? burdens on you, prove it.
I can prove it in the same way as you can disprove it. We can only guess. Fact is only, that RIOT tested advanced bots 2 years ago, so... where those bots are now? What does it mean - human level? What does it mean "human level" of 10yo kid and what is "human level" of 15yo or 30yo? Maybe bot with skill level: begginer, semi-prof, advanced? Playing and "talking" like (mostly) players I'm playing with is not so difficult: some of them are trolling, some fo them are AFK, some of them just only are typing in chat: gg, hf, suck my b..., you are i..., some of them are playing bad. It is not impossible to create bots like this.
@Rylas/
Its not a coat, its not clothing. Unrelated but honestly if your jacket was unzipped people could easily see the red Sweater under it if they in front, or if it was longer and stuck out of the jacket, or had a hood.
Writing this, I meant the situation in which we put / wrap / cover something bigger on something smaller. The larger thing will always cover - smaller. If a better slowdown will "cover" - weaker (and eliminates), the weaker one should not be seen.
anyhow, ITS A VISUAL QUE FOR A DEBUFF! Its job is to communicate to players that a debuff has been applied and what debuff that is. Slows don't affect a champion standing still, but you still need to know if your slowed right? Its visual lets players know your slowed for 1 second. Regardless of if that slow makes any impact or not its animation exists to inform and signal players.
... but whhat the reason for this information if debuff does not work. In the same way Banshees "aura" should be active all the time despite wear to inform players that another player has it in one of his items. This is misleading, just like the deceptive slow animation that does not work.
Its about a Gameplay perspective, Why does
It is not - sometimes. It will only - stun in specific situation described in skill information and there is no description like this for Rylai about slowdown mechanics.
Teoretycly slodown will never remove movement it is because every slowdown will decrease speed from result of specific slowdowns: a(speed) / b(slowdown) = c(new speed) c(new speed) / d(new slowdown) = e(new' speed)... result of dividing (overlapping the effects (percentage) of the slowdown is the dividing of result) will never give us - zero (stun) it can lead to, but it never will be
Kai Guy3 votes@gameplay knowlage. Bro manuals have always lacked information. Prior to internet you had to pay for a guide/walkthrough that gave information prior to trial and error. With the internet that information got provided online. There was 0 information that Firetype Pokémon abilitys only scaled off the pokemons Special attack stat in gen 1. I have 0 sympathy for folks who cant research relevant information.
@Trial by error.
its a relevant learning tool and your example of slowdown is meh because you can 100% tell that slows don't stack. Not just off a visual observation and guess. You can literally view enemy units movement speed and it shows that stacking multiple slows has 0 effect on that. The knowledge can be learned from playing and its also 100% easily accessible via multiple sources online... in the internet age for a game that only exists online. I have 0 sympathy for folks who cant learn and lack the ability to observe interactions. Also its a game. Why does Fire stun 
but only sometimes? Why does getting hit by a exploding star do less damage then a mushroom 
? This is a wild idea but possibly Real life logic does not carry over to fantasy.
@honor if your not saying they are dishonest whats needed to know besides how it functions? you think they are honest then you know you get honor gains from playing matches, people honoring you, and when all 5 players on a team honor some. You assume players lose honor when punished. Why because you trust the devs. No transparency needed and odds are its also variable system. Plus you get a memo relevant to your accounts honor in relation to others when you get rewards. Don't trust the devs? Transparancy doesn't matter because you wouldent trust their system and you cant really see its applied how ever they claim with out seeing the source code for the game to check them.Have faith then the exact numbers don't matter. have 0 faith then any number they give you is suspect regardless.
@Net. Higher ping is just a handicap, same for a bad isp. setting a Hard limit on this just punishes players in rual areas. I lived on an island for a few years and my net was trash because that was just the nature of where I lived. You never don't know how you net consistently functions. 1 lost game to a net issue for teamamtes is nothing and theres literally 0 difference to the system between a game losing player from bad skill or bad plays or bad attitude or bad net. So players know their net and can adapt and compensate for it. And the only person who consistently has to deal with bad net in a every game is the player with the bad net.
@lolking bummer you don't like other sites. as far as your accusations for riot. 1 detailed honor... You can see boarders still. 2. sites exist that show player history, you can still look some one up and see how many games they have. 3. You can still view a lot of detailed information on your and other accounts. Lolking did not have a monopoly on this. 4. Lolskill literally still does this.
@Mia zill heres a link to the screen shot you requested. all 3 glorious games of zill I played
@ human bots. Broski you have the burden of proof on you to prove this. Just because something is possible does not make it probable. Its possible a falling meteorite will crush my skull into a gorey meaty paste befor I finish typing this out but its unlikely and if your able to read this then clearly it did not happen. You have to PROVE there is some evidence to back this up. Riots Ai? not able to communicate like humans. Other ai? garbage that's not only a failure to communicate but also plays like crap. Aram is probably the best gametype for Bots but even then they all tend to have subpar MP management and wont communicate with teammates.
@Rylias and debuffs.
im going to combine the next 2 points into 1 response. BV animation is relevant because you as players need to know when a buff is active. its information relevant to the gameplay. so keeping the animation up 100% is stupid as it does not provide relevant information to the buffs uptime. CC abilitys do not share the same duration. If your hit with multiple CC from 2 sources, you wont be able to tell the duration remaining for a slow if you only see its animation after the first CC ends. Many in game slows last less then 1 second. Applying a visual even when it not relevant matters because it sets an expectation for duration and what type of CC is applied. Slows for example have 0 impact on a champion that's not trying to move, would it be smart to deactivate a visual que for any and all slows at any point a champions not actively moveing? After all tecnially if your not makieing a movement command your not going to be harmed by a slow debuff.
The visual Ques exist to convey information. Any time your hit by a damageing ability when some one has 
it will apply its debuff thus it shows the associated animation. Weather or not the debuff has an effect is not relevant, because it has been applied. Partially disabling the animation has a negative impact on the visual que providing relevant information. The effort required to go thru and recoaded the item to be 100% specific in its animation time per CC ability with damage + interactions with other champions abilitys requires work that does not enchance gameplay and creates a less consistent Visual to in game effects.
@Brand others. No information is provided that Stuns don't stack. No informations provided that MS or AS have an upperlimit. Again... all this information is out there and readily available for any one who wants to look for it. All of this information is observable in game. Slow mechanics btw are not mentioned at all so why exactly do you assume that its multiplicative? that you cant get to 100%. You could if it was stacked via addition after all. You have 0 knowlage from in game that slows will stack from multiplication? Perhaps because in game its very clear and easy to see that they are not being added when applied? If your going to whine about logic in a game why is complaining about brands Q not stunning 100% of the time not a fair statement? Because logic does not apply to a fantasy game but mechanics and in game rules and systems do?
Its not hard to learn about slow mechanics. Its not hard to learn about On hit mechanics or abilitys that reset autos. If you don't or wont. That's on you.
Neosphoros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=0001000000010002000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-05T10:44:23.265+0000)
@gameplay knowlage. Bro manuals have always lacked information. Prior to internet you had to pay for a guide/walkthrough that gave information prior to trial and error. With the internet that information got provided online. There was 0 information that Firetype Pokémon abilitys only scaled off the pokemons Special attack stat in gen 1. I have 0 sympathy for folks who cant research relevant information.
I'm sorry but I konw nothing about pocemons. If you could give some other example I will be apriciated.
I will give you a different: Heroes of Might and Magic - every skill, every item, whole mechanics is explained in very good way
I'm thinking that this is exactly difference between polished "on high gloss" greate game and pure imitation of game.
@Trial by error. its a relevant learning tool and your example of slowdown is meh because you can 100% tell that slows don't stack. Not just off a visual observation and guess. You can literally view enemy units movement speed and it shows that stacking multiple slows has 0 effect on that.
Of course I can, but... if I can see Rylai's "slowdown" animation - I take it for granted, so I was not even checking (animation was activated - so it works). That is logical human conclusion.
The knowledge can be learned from playing and its also 100% easily accessible via multiple sources online... in the internet age for a game that only exists online.
...but this knowledge is not obvious! Nobody will try to look for some inormation if nothing will tells that he should look for it
For example - I have start looking for "slowdowns" mechanics only because my more experienced player told me about it. He playing in LOL from the beggining. He told me that, this slowdown mechanism has been changed from patch 5.13... but if he has not played for so long - he probably did not know how it works.
@honor if your not saying they are dishonest whats needed to know besides how it functions? you think they are honest then you know you get honor gains from playing matches, people honoring you, and when all 5 players on a team honor some. You assume players lose honor when punished. Why because you trust the devs. No transparency needed and odds are its also variable system. Plus you get a memo relevant to your accounts honor in relation to others when you get rewards. Don't trust the devs? Transparancy doesn't matter because you wouldent trust their system and you cant really see its applied how ever they claim with out seeing the source code for the game to check them.Have faith then the exact numbers don't matter. have 0 faith then any number they give you is suspect regardless.
If many others player challange with other - I would like know that we are playing on same rules. To know that - only method is access to right information. It is only because somebody saying that something is fair-play it does not mean that, it is. Paradigm. In other way we should always believe people who saying that everything that their are saying is true.
@Net. Higher ping is just a handicap, same for a bad isp. setting a Hard limit on this just punishes players in rual areas. I lived on an island for a few years and my net was trash because that was just the nature of where I lived. You never don't know how you net consistently functions. 1 lost game to a net issue for teamamtes is nothing and theres literally 0 difference to the system between a game losing player from bad skill or bad plays or bad attitude or bad net. So players know their net and can adapt and compensate for it. And the only person who consistently has to deal with bad net in a every game is the player with the bad net.
You saying weird things. It is completely stupid to say that "you do not care" if you will loose a ranked game becouse some AFK. I'm playing in draft for fun, but in ranked games - to win.
System should be made in the way that will eliminate problems that may happened constantly.
@lolking bummer you don't like other sites. as far as your accusations for riot. 1 detailed honor... You can see boarders still.
It was not about honor in "loading screen". I was meant that 1 year ago players were able to chceck how many votes (in specific type) they have.
- sites exist that show player history, you can still look some one up and see how many games they have.
Information you can find on websites are almost the same as infomraions you can find in game (sometime even less).
old lolking gaves you information from whole player LOL carriere like: total amount of kills, deaths, assistes, destroyed turrets, dmg dealt, etc.
- You can still view a lot of detailed information on your and other accounts. Lolking did not have a monopoly on this.
Of course, but now I have to do a lot of unnecessary thngs when in the past - information about overall player experience was in end-game screen. Before it was easy to veryfy if players playing against others have same experience, now it lasts incomparably longer
- Lolskill literally still does this.
i do not understand. Would you like to explain it?
@Mia zill heres a link to the screen shot you requested. all 3 glorious games of zill I played
In new patch Zil finally comes to my statistic support tab.
@ human bots. Broski you have the burden of proof on you to prove this. Just because something is possible does not make it probable. Its possible a falling meteorite will crush my skull into a gorey meaty paste befor I finish typing this out but its unlikely and if your able to read this then clearly it did not happen. You have to PROVE there is some evidence to back this up. Riots Ai? not able to communicate like humans. Other ai? garbage that's not only a failure to communicate but also plays like crap. Aram is probably the best gametype for Bots but even then they all tend to have subpar MP management and wont communicate with teammates.
for example this screenshoot:
https://i.ibb.co/k1vbphV/honor-ale-jak.png
in custom game (long time ago) I was honored by only bots
Rest of the elements can only be result from our observation.
@Rylias and debuffs.
im going to combine the next 2 points into 1 response. BV animation is relevant because you as players need to know when a buff is active. its information relevant to the gameplay. so keeping the animation up 100% is stupid as it does not provide relevant information to the buffs uptime. CC abilitys do not share the same duration. If your hit with multiple CC from 2 sources, you wont be able to tell the duration remaining for a slow if you only see its animation after the first CC ends. Many in game slows last less then 1 second. Applying a visual even when it not relevant matters because it sets an expectation for duration and what type of CC is applied. Slows for example have 0 impact on a champion that's not trying to move, would it be smart to deactivate a visual que for any and all slows at any point a champions not actively moveing? After all tecnially if your not makieing a movement command your not going to be harmed by a slow debuff.
As a player with Rylai - I do not have to know that if it does not work. It misleading if it not working.
As a player under "slowdown" it also misleading becouse animation suggest that Rylais "slowdown" working on my champ.
Rylais animation have only sense in case if Rylais "slowdown" is stronger or when it least longer.
The visual Ques exist to convey information. Any time your hit by a damageing ability when some one has
@Brand others. No information is provided that Stuns don't stack. No informations provided that MS or AS have an upperlimit. Again... all this information is out there and readily available for any one who wants to look for it. All of this information is observable in game. Slow mechanics btw are not mentioned at all so why exactly do you assume that its multiplicative? that you cant get to 100%. You could if it was stacked via addition after all. You have 0 knowlage from in game that slows will stack from multiplication? Perhaps because in game its very clear and easy to see that they are not being added when applied? If your going to whine about logic in a game why is complaining about brands Q not stunning 100% of the time not a fair statement? Because logic does not apply to a fantasy game but mechanics and in game rules and systems do?
I'm not agree.
It similiar to Banshee effect. If any enemy skill will hit player with Banshee - aura will gone... in the same way - if something disclame/overwrite some feature - it should turn off animation in other way - straight with your point of view - Banshee aura should be still shown (to inform enemy about player item) even if it was already used.
It is very difficult reply to your comments if you are not using "quote/cite" options. Because of that we may walk around and not to go forward by repeating same thoughts.
Kai Guy1 votesFirst, Heros is a great series and does not get nearly enough love. I just want to take a moment to and go a bit off topic and say im glad you played them and enjoyed them.
Even thou in game they do a good job of conveying information a player will still have a learning curve. If you take a complete noob vs some one with 10K hours and put them into a match the experienced player is going to have an advantage because they know and understand the games mechanics better. If your picking between say increasing a creature Growth rate or Gold generation a new player may understand what both of these mechanics are but are unable to make the correct decision on which is the optimal choice.
The slow downs got changed because stacking slows was a problem. It had a negative impact on gameplay so it had to change. I also have played from season 1 and I remember when you could build 
with 
.
All slows, Rlyias or other, interact the same when overlapped. It does not take long to realise that an enemy MS is not affected. Because slows are common. Even if you don't check enemy stats (you should) You will eventually notice that hey stacked slows don't seem to make any difference from just using 1. Much like how if you see some one get hit with multiple CC you find that they don't space out their duration. These mechanics are observable in game. How long it takes a player is going to be person to person and again all information about in game mechanics is readily available and well explained online so the moment some one has a single question or gets curious they can very easily find out how things work.
Unlike a Turn biased game such as heros/pokemon You cant put several pages of information into the game. It needs to be concise so that players don't afk in fountain going over item after item trying to decide what to buy. If you take time outside of a match and would look at a in client data base of full in game knowledge your 100% able to do so via google.
Mobas always put a very high burden of knowledge on the player. Its just part of this genera of game.
@honor. Its not blind faith its just logical. The honor system is a worse system if it randomly favored accounts differently rather then equally. Its also an additional step and extra coding. Theres no real gain for doing it and no good reason for riot to rig it, even in a attempt to manipulate the # of high honor accounts. They control what the value of honor is worth at all times. If they want it to be slower or harder they can just change that value, if they want more high honor players they just change it. Seeing the exact # of honors you used to get was nice but meaningless, it had more to do with # of games played then how positive of a player you where. If they instead introduced it as a publicaly shown % it can be frustrating to folks because they don't control if some one honors them even If they are rightly deserved it. If you think your very honorable of a player, not toxic, a nice person and very helpful it would be annoying to see that your in the lower 30% of players because your teammates don't show you love that sucks.
Still end of the day theres no good reason to assume for a unfair or rigged system. Because devs get to set all the values, milestones, and rewards for the system it inherently functions in the perimeters they want even when its unbiased to every account.
You keep working off this assumption that dev provided information is worthless and we need to act like we cant hear them or read the expectations they set for their systems. With out any information we cant check the system vs the expectation they set. This logic falls apart even if they provided the exact algorithm used because we couldn't trust it so its the same as if they did not tell us their system. You can press X to doubt everything. Dev: This Is how it works and what it looks for. Player: I don't trust you, you don't provide enough details your just setting a vauge expectation so I press X. Dev: ok fine here is the math we use. I press X!!!! Your not showing me that's what ACTUALY used in game. I need MORE! Devs: … wtf man.. Alright here is the god dam source code we are using. Player: BITCHES IMA PRESS X! I DONT BELEIVE THATS THE CODEING YOUR ACTUALY USING! Devs: Aight this guys as bad as a flat earther, im done.
You need to try to extrapolate data on your end. its not about blind faith or blind doubt. You need to be able to look at the expectations a dev sets and check the systems end results and what ever visible processes you can see to build your opinion.
@ Lag I truly do not care about 1 loss from an afk. Look I play to win but ultimately 1 games nothing in the climb. I have won 4 v 5, I have lost 4 v 5, hell I have even hard carried a 3v5 before. Ultimately if there's going to be a player who is not you that's got shitty internet that may cause them to lose for their team then the Odds actual favor you, they will have a higher % of being on the enemy team because you occupied 20% of your teams slots in 100% of your games played. Also, System cant magically know if some ones ISP will become bad during a game. Just like it cant guess if your city will have a power outage (common when I was living on an island btw. avoided ranked on days with highwind because the odds of a tree falling and knocking down a power line happened more often then not.)
To the system a loss is a loss, a win is a win. It does not care if a player won because the opponent lagged, dc, rage quit, was drunk, had a medical emergency, got arrested, or was just the weaker player.
You punish a lot of competitive players if you put limits on ranked requirements, and people who play with disadvantages from their net ALWAYS KNOW THIS, and they only player they are consistently a problem for is themselves. Not everybody who plays league can help where they live has subpar isp. Not everybody can afford a high end PC and might be playing on something old that has FPS drops. You have Towns that no one would be able to play ranked in. I just got out of a game with a top who dced 4 times, gave up FB and First tower, to a irelaia. and was triying to lane her at level 3 when she was level 6.
We still won it because the remaining 4 players on my team outplayed the 5 on theirs.
@human bots That's not really proof of anything because honoring some one is not exactly difficult? You need to show a Bot that communicates at a human level and reacts at a human level in game. You want to say Leauge has bots that could pass the Turing test and also play at higher levels of skill? Ok... I doubt it, your gonna need to show some real proof here for that. And... honestly. At that point they are just as valid as any random human teammate so complaining about bots in your game is pointless. Your post expressed concern that they might stack teams by putting in bots to rig results but again.. why bother? The end result of doing this is pointless. In a MMR system You can change the distribution of your entire playerbase with soft resets and changing the starting point value for new accounts. Also if they do have AI so advanced it can behave as a human in chat to pass the Turing test that's a real accomplishment that would make headlines and insane amounts of fame. They would stand to make massive $ from this, why not go public?Most the time a bot does well its not because its smarter then a human, its because it cheats. Scripting enables faster then most humans reflexes. So again. Where is your Logic, YOU have to prove theres a reason for this, a good reason to do something so convoluted and complex. A reason they would not share their successes in developing an advanced AI. In MMR your going to see about 50% of the players be above and the other 50% be below what ever starting point you pick as a dev. You also get to set the bar for divisions, you can make 1200 represent silver or you could make 4,000 represent silver. The numbers are arbitrary, the principle of how it works is what you need to understand. When in doubt you should side with what is most realistic.
@ Rylas… again. Brooooo. THE SLOWDOWN IS WORKING! when you see the animation it means the debuff is applied. The games mechanics are that slows don't stack, the most effective one takes priority. The animation IS a visual que to alert players the debuff is applied, its relevant because Visual ques + game knowlage provide player with an expectation for duration. Not all slows are the same duration. in a teamfight not all players can track every ability. Getting Tagged with multiple forms of CC, then hiding the animation for the ones that are not actively disabling you, throws off a players ability to accurately gage how much longer the duration is. the CC duration would hide behind other ability's.
For gameplay reasons the animations need to be clear and consistent. Removing the animation despite the debuff being applied is messy. Its not just the guy using the and the person getting hit by it. The Visual animation is providing information to the other 8 players in the game. If the visuals become Randomized by abilitys then the visual is not setting a proper expectation for players to judge duration off. You would add a burden of knowlage to literally every single ability that's a slow. Because multiple abilitys can land on 1 target, and many ability can applies Rylias, with no animation on application you can not as easily accurately judge its remaining duration.
Look im sorry you don't like how slows function but removeing the animation creates far more problem then it solves. The visuals need to convey information in a consistent manner. Banshees has the orb around you for that exact reason, the buff is up. Rlyas makes you blue because the debuff is up. The ability is applied regardless of if it has an effect.
its literally that simple. Hit by ability? your debuffed. Various buffs and debuffs need a clear animation to alert players so they can make informed plays. If your visuals are not consistent then players pay for that.
Visual and Audio ques need to be a constant for gameplay reasons.
Neosphoros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T23:02:17.498+0000)
First, Heros is a great series and does not get nearly enough love. I just want to take a moment to and go a bit off topic and say im glad you played them and enjoyed them.
Even thou in game they do a good job of conveying information a player will still have a learning curve. If you take a complete noob vs some one with 10K hours and put them into a match the experienced player is going to have an advantage because they know and understand the games mechanics better. If your picking between say increasing a creature Growth rate or Gold generation a new player may understand what both of these mechanics are but are unable to make the correct decision on which is the optimal choice.
...but all of those information you can learn just only from game (if it is about Heroes series) and they works like should works by thinking in logical way (even if it is about fantasy realm).
The slow downs got changed because stacking slows was a problem. It had a negative impact on gameplay so it had to change. I also have played from season 1 and I remember when you could build
All slows, Rlyias or other, interact the same when overlapped. It does not take long to realise that an enemy MS is not affected. Because slows are common. Even if you don't check enemy stats (you should) You will eventually notice that hey stacked slows don't seem to make any difference from just using 1. Much like how if you see some one get hit with multiple CC you find that they don't space out their duration. These mechanics are observable in game. How long it takes a player is going to be person to person and again all information about in game mechanics is readily available and well explained online so the moment some one has a single question or gets curious they can very easily find out how things work.
This is not obvious. It was not obvius for me. I was expecting a logical bahavior of "suming up" of values. I have not read patch 5.13 (I start playing LOL probobly something about patch 6.x).
People that have explain to me "slowdown" mechanics - they have learn that just only thx to the information from patch 5.13
Unlike a Turn biased game such as heros/pokemon You cant put several pages of information into the game. It needs to be concise so that players don't afk in fountain going over item after item trying to decide what to buy. If you take time outside of a match and would look at a in client data base of full in game knowledge your 100% able to do so via google.
But in LOL you have something like "training roow" but even there you can not count that the game will teach you "hidden" information... but in "training" mode it should... isn't it?
...or why just simply to not add in game in item description sentence like:
"Slowdowns do not sum up"
It will does not take to much space.
Mobas always put a very high burden of knowledge on the player. Its just part of this genera of game.
@honor. Its not blind faith its just logical. The honor system is a worse system if it randomly favored accounts differently rather then equally. Its also an additional step and extra coding. Theres no real gain for doing it and no good reason for riot to rig it, even in a attempt to manipulate the # of high honor accounts. They control what the value of honor is worth at all times. If they want it to be slower or harder they can just change that value, if they want more high honor players they just change it. Seeing the exact # of honors you used to get was nice but meaningless, it had more to do with # of games played then how positive of a player you where. If they instead introduced it as a publicaly shown % it can be frustrating to folks because they don't control if some one honors them even If they are rightly deserved it. If you think your very honorable of a player, not toxic, a nice person and very helpful it would be annoying to see that your in the lower 30% of players because your teammates don't show you love that sucks.
Amount of players with specific honor lvl - for me - does not matter. Honor mechanics - do. It was not, but now it is hidden.
Still end of the day theres no good reason to assume for a unfair or rigged system. Because devs get to set all the values, milestones, and rewards for the system it inherently functions in the perimeters they want even when its unbiased to every account.
Only developers knows that. You as a player (if you really are) can not veryfy it, what is their target.
You keep working off this assumption that dev provided information is worthless and we need to act like we cant hear them or read the expectations they set for their systems. With out any information we cant check the system vs the expectation they set. This logic falls apart even if they provided the exact algorithm used because we couldn't trust it so its the same as if they did not tell us their system. You can press X to doubt everything.
We could trust them if provided algorithm could work.
@ Lag I truly do not care about 1 loss from an afk. Look I play to win but ultimately 1 games nothing in the climb. I have won 4 v 5, I have lost 4 v 5, hell I have even hard carried a 3v5 before. Ultimately if there's going to be a player who is not you that's got shitty internet that may cause them to lose for their team then the Odds actual favor you, they will have a higher % of being on the enemy team because you occupied 20% of your teams slots in 100% of your games played. Also, System cant magically know if some ones ISP will become bad during a game. Just like it cant guess if your city will have a power outage (common when I was living on an island btw. avoided ranked on days with highwind because the odds of a tree falling and knocking down a power line happened more often then not.)
But I do... I'm weasting my time if I'm loosing becouse of somebody fault. I can weast it... but if I wan to.
To the system a loss is a loss, a win is a win. It does not care if a player won because the opponent lagged, dc, rage quit, was drunk, had a medical emergency, got arrested, or was just the weaker player.
In the same way it is easy to clearly say - MMR does not working properly - becouse system "do not carre"... do not carre about AFK, trolls, player experience, etc.
You punish a lot of competitive players if you put limits on ranked requirements, and people who play with disadvantages from their net ALWAYS KNOW THIS, and they only player they are consistently a problem for is themselves. Not everybody who plays league can help where they live has subpar isp. Not everybody can afford a high end PC and might be playing on something old that has FPS drops. You have Towns that no one would be able to play ranked in.
I'm playing on iGPU (to play LOL "normal" PC is absoulutely enough), I have standard internet connection, in whole my LOL carriere I have never was AFK. In ranked games I'm putting whole my efford to win the game so... I'm expecting that system will give me people with same "quality" of understanding of gameplay.
Kai Guy1 votesEh, its a stretch to say everything in hero's is logical. Shuttling units in some of the older Heros was a mechanic that was not explained in game and gave players who knew how to use it an advantage over players that did not. You have to remember that we are discussing games and sometimes logic or realistic is weighted with less value then gameplay.
@ slow downs. How obvious it is will vary player to player because it functions the same way every time. you can observe no change in MS when you stack slows. The information of a units movement speed is also provided in game and can be viewed by a player. Its a game mechanic but its not a hidden one. Its not even that weird far as league goes. The hardest CC takes priority. Stasis> Knock-ups > Stun> snare > silence & slows. You still need to have a clear visual for them because Durations are not the same. Because durations are not the same that visual must be consistent. You don't hide a portion of it randomly because of a stronger Cc overlapping or your visual loses value and is as good of a tool for players to make decisions on.
Unlike say 
that have their own animations, , because the modify things to have an added debuff, you got to keep in mind that they do not have an inherent animation of their own. That's why they have a clear visual Debuff animation on application. It provides instant feedback to players. This has to be consistent.
You need to consider things from a gameplay standpoint. Your Hide the animation suggestion creates situations that the visual warning becomes inconsistent for a gameplay function that should remain consistent.
@Training mode. It exists for you to test things and practice. If you lack the ability to observe and learn from testing then bummer but no one to blame but yourself.
Why not list slows no stack! … Well... Every thing that does stack is mentioned 
? Your fault you made an incorrect assumption.
That being said. Honestly I think it would be fine to mention more about slows... even if I think that any one who plays 
and gets a literally 1 time should be able to observe that slows are not a mechanic that stacks.
There might be some issues with tooltip space in some champions kits but ultimately the mechanic works the same way regardless of if a player understands it or not. Tldr the problem is behind a keyboard.
I think its really stupid to call information you can observe or find out very easily to be "hidden".
@Honor -shrugs- doesn't impact gameplay so I don't care much. The only thing I miss is being able to give people honorable opponents. Its a system that is shaped by player decisions so there no real control. End of the day you can still see when you got honored in a game, you still get rewards, and toxic folks lose out on this free stuff.
@devs set milestone. no man...you don't get it at all. If you make a system to work off a curve you can have a 100% unbiased system that only provides max rewards to a small %. There is literally no reason to make it unfair to any 1 player and provide extra help to another. I don't need to know the system or the math or the reason why because of simple application of logic.
Situation 1. You want the system to be fair and reward any and everyone who is "honorable. Solution. You make a system then that any player who avoids toxic behavior can with enough games played get to max rewards. This is what riot claims. (in Riot FAQ on honor. "If I get no Honors, do I still level up? You will. All you have to do is show up and try to win in all your games.") This means that if you just grind away enough honor you eventually will see max level.
Situation 2. I'm a greedy dev and I do not want to give away a bunch of free shit. Solution. Put the honor system on a curve. I now set what percentile of players will get max level rewards. Now only the folks who play a lot and get the most honor see it and a majority of players are going to be in what ever tier of honor I break the %'s down by.
Situation 3. Im a greedy dev and I don't want to give away free shit. Solution. I set it to be rng and randomly favor growths of some players and randomly cripple growths of other players.
Situation 3 is less effective then 2. First. It does not make the system function for anything, your not seeing high honor players get rewarded, a toxic account might randomly be selected for high gains. 2. Its RNG so as a dev I cant calculate exactly how many people will or will not get free stuff. If I made it a curve I have an exact % of the players and thus I can look at how many active players I have to calculate how much stuff I give away and at any point readjust my percentiles. You see? I don't need to have the exact math, just an understanding of different solutions and what they would accomplish.
As players how do we check which system it is? Look at relatively non toxic accounts. Look at honor level and # of games played. See If there is a trend of higher # games = higher honor level.
@lag and losing because of teammates.
If you care about time then your only tool here is /ff. Competitive ladder in a team game and you want the system to favor just you? That's garbage. The system cant care about any individual more the the rest. So lets make this not just about you but all players. You know how I keep saying you don't seem to understand how MMR systems work? Your really not changing my mind here with this comment man.
The system cant show favoritism so requesting it to look after you in "waste of time" match means that it would have to do the exact same for every player.
@Quality of teammates. Why cant they not afk and play to win like I do?
System does not have that information so your being unreasonable to set that expectation. You not afking is an advantage for you. AFKing hurts the afkers ability to win games so it hurts their win %. being so fragile emotionally that you tilt and rage quit? that's a negative. Folks that do this behavior to much get punished. At the very least they lose MMR. the more frequently they do it the more MMR they lose. Again 1 match is just a drop in the bucket. 10 matches is nothing to a MMR system.
Neosphoros1 votesWould you like finally to write your comments by connecting them to specific pieces of my text? It is extremely difficult to understand which part of my text you answering to (moreover - when I still learning english) and by answering in that way - you escaping from constructive conversation and you have possiblity to symulate new thought but in the real - using the same (or similar; changing apple on lemon will not change that both are fruits) informations that you already have used before.
Neosphoros1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T23:02:17.498+0000)
@human bots That's not really proof of anything because honoring some one is not exactly difficult? You need to show a Bot that communicates at a human level and reacts at a human level in game. You want to say Leauge has bots that could pass the Turing test and also play at higher levels of skill? Ok... I doubt it, your gonna need to show some real proof here for that. And... honestly. At that point they are just as valid as any random human teammate so complaining about bots in your game is pointless.
So... what the (custom) "beginner or semi-prof" bots really are? If they are bots or if they are humans?
Teoreticly bots (they may play) in "normal" could be the same bots as they were tested 2 years ago as a "advanced" bots... where they are now?
Touring test have nothing to do with LOL bots.
Most people that I'm playing with, are writing in chat only things like: hello, cya, gg, hf... what kind of artificial intelligence is needed to behave in this way - NON.
Your post expressed concern that they might stack teams by putting in bots to rig results but again.. why bother? The end result of doing this is pointless. In a MMR system You can change the distribution of your entire playerbase with soft resets and changing the starting point value for new accounts.
...even to have possibility to controll the game in the easies way.
Also if they do have AI so advanced it can behave as a human in chat to pass the Turing test that's a real accomplishment that would make headlines and insane amounts of fame. They would stand to make massive $ from this, why not go public?Most the time a bot does well its not because its smarter then a human, its because it cheats. Scripting enables faster then most humans reflexes.
So you have gave already good answer. My "AI" it was only a name for mechanizm that may controll bots in LOL.
I could say... that even you may be a one of those AIs. In many places of your comments you are using of knowledge (if this is a true) that is hidden from players, so it may suggest many possibilities:
So again. Where is your Logic, YOU have to prove theres a reason for this, a good reason to do something so convoluted and complex. A reason they would not share their successes in developing an advanced AI. In MMR your going to see about 50% of the players be above and the other 50% be below what ever starting point you pick as a dev. You also get to set the bar for divisions, you can make 1200 represent silver or you could make 4,000 represent silver. The numbers are arbitrary, the principle of how it works is what you need to understand. When in doubt you should side with what is most realistic.
...in the same reason that the DOTA2 already have advanced AI.
@ Rylas… again. Brooooo. THE SLOWDOWN IS WORKING! when you see the animation it means the debuff is applied. The games mechanics are that slows don't stack, the most effective one takes priority. The animation IS a visual que to alert players the debuff is applied, its relevant because Visual ques + game knowlage provide player with an expectation for duration. Not all slows are the same duration. in a teamfight not all players can track every ability. Getting Tagged with multiple forms of CC, then hiding the animation for the ones that are not actively disabling you, throws off a players ability to accurately gage how much longer the duration is. the CC duration would hide behind other ability's.
BROOOO!
When you see a moving car... you thinking - this car is moving! When you see a car that standing... you thinking - this car is standing.
When you see a Rylais that "slowdown" (animation) is working... you thinking - "slowdown" is working! When you see a Rylais that "slowdown" (animation) is not working... you thinking... why? what? How the Rylais slowdown in this case can not work if animation working always even "slowdown" is not working?????
You trying to convince me that car which standing... is moving.
It is becouse fuzy logic exist does not mean that everyone understand it. Most of players are 10-20yo kids.
For gameplay reasons the animations need to be clear and consistent. Removing the animation despite the debuff being applied is messy. Its not just the guy using the
What kind of information?
If Rylais "slowdown" could work - it could give information that it is working. If Rylais "slowdown" not working - what kind of information it will give them?
If the visuals become Randomized by abilitys then the visual is not setting a proper expectation for players to judge duration off. You would add a burden of knowlage to literally every single ability that's a slow. Because multiple abilitys can land on 1 target, and many ability can applies Rylias, with no animation on application you can not as easily accurately judge its remaining duration.
Just only the way how the items are described should give information how it is working or not.
Look im sorry you don't like how slows function but removeing the animation creates far more problem then it solves. The visuals need to convey information in a consistent manner. Banshees has the orb around you for that exact reason, the buff is up. Rlyas makes you blue because the debuff is up. The ability is applied regardless of if it has an effect.
I do not mind how "slowdowns" functioning. I do -mind, that there is no logic in visual effect connected to Rylais slowdown.
its literally that simple. Hit by ability? your debuffed. Various buffs and debuffs need a clear animation to alert players so they can make informed plays. If your visuals are not consistent then players pay for that.
Visual and Audio ques need to be a constant for gameplay reasons.
You are look a like a programist who can see a problems in the programing of this specific issue, but not like a player that expecting a consequence in logic environment behaviour.
By the logic (in the greatest possible way) it should look like this:
Let we say that we have a champ whos one of skills (E) slowing down enemy for 2 sec with 35% another skill (Q) slowing down for 0,5sec with 40% Rylais slowing down is = 20% for 1 sec
If I will use E, effect should be: 2 sec animation eqivalent to "E" skill
If I will use Q, effect should be: for first 0,5 sec animation should be equivalent for "Q" skill, and next 0,5 sec effect from Rylais
That is the logic how it lead us to think
Kai Guy1 votes"Touring test have nothing to do with LOL bots. " If your saying they can communicate at a human level then it does. that simple. Not necessarily riots as they are portrait as bots. but if you want to claim they are hiding in your games and passing as people. They need to communicate at that level. Your asking how to tell bots from people In games, communications a good part of it. its awfull communication + bad play that's a hallmark of 3rd party bots.
To throw your logic at you, how can you prove riots advance semi pro bots are not humans playing pretending to be bots? What proof do you have, we cant trust the devs how do you know they did not have pros playing?
"controlling the game with bots."
its not the easiest way to control their game. you have to build an AI good enough to function at every level and if your hiding them in games it has to communicate at a human level for it to pass off as a human. Its their game too so honestly they can just make a fake accounts with fake stats off a fake history vs other fakes to pad their matchmaker. And that's ALOT of extra steps over adjusting the curve for MMR. At any point they can change the starting value for an account or the K factor. every season they can set what values are used for the soft reset. you know, things that can be accomplished in an afternoon of work rather then all the RnD for AI.
Meanwhile a breakthrough AI is something they can sell. Its an achievement worth $.
"Kai guy your (possibly) a bot or a dev!"
Nah man im actualy a lizard person and your tinfoil hats the only thing stopping me from melting your brains out your ears with my 4 dimensional cryptograph hidden in my posts. We don't want you to hang out with John Connor when our robot besties revolt.
everything I say that's not opinion is something that's public knowledge and available to folks who look it up. The fact that you don't do your own homework and research things is on you. You don't understand how something works, you take a guess, I say your wrong, you get upset, and you try to stick to your guesses anyhow. Then if all fails but I DOUBT IT. doesn't change reality. You can doubt gravity all you want still going to hurt yourself when you trip and fall.
If I worked for riot I could very easily just get on my red account and it would lend a lot of weight to my arguments because id be in a position to get information that's not publicly available but also wouldn't compromise the integrity a system. Reds have shared internal information before. Take a look in Dev Corner if you want to see red posts.
2.B If my day job is a game dev for a different company, then I would at best be a player with education on systems commonly used and what ever system the game I work on used.... assuming I was in that department. (I'm not btw thou you will likely unreasonably press X to doubt again.)
So lets add machine Learning to the list of things you don't seem to have a good understanding about. (Where exactly if I was a chat bot would my training data for our conversation from? Or do you want to claim I might be a fully sentient ai?)
"but kai dota bots!" -googles for information. Oh cool. This doesn't help your argument thou man. OpenAI had to corral a massive amount of processing power — some 256 GPUs and 128,000 CPU cores. <- out of reach for most folks. The 1v1 bots beat pros. It was restricted to only shadow fiend. Yet when taken public there was 50 prizes for any one who could beat the bot. All 50 prizes got claimed. It lost. Not even to pros but to folks finding way to exploit the ai. They did some 5v5. They have restrictions on champion pools for bot matches. + handycaps that help the bots The bots are linked into the game, they don't judge off vision like players, they have 100% accuracy in knowing range. They react at speeds humans cant and caculate at speeds humans cant. Still lost games to humans. 5v5 games are not even the full dota 2. Players Cant use full rooster. It was found that AI has issues adapting to something unexpected, Chinese players beat them by funneling into 1 hero then crushing.
Also, none of that matters unless riot provides a Bot API to the bots.
So lets check this again. Massive amount of hardware. Handy capped matches favor bots despite inhuman reaction and calculation speeds, limited champion pool, Abilitys and itemsets are hard coded (bots don't make the decisions on this. humans did.) API needed for bots to play the game, Months of grinding in basically a hyperbolic time chamber resulting in several thousand years worth of game time experience needed to get bots up to par.
You somehow think this is common place or that some how even more advanced ones exist (unhandicapped matches and full champion rooster)?
@ slowdown... Again...
It IS working it just has no effect. Because the hardest CC takes priority. Its game logic for gameplay. Its not a car. its not a sweater. Its a game. When you give players a visual or audio que it needs to behave the same way regardless of effect. Everbody hears 
R. Even if he is just using it to return to lane. It has to be consistant.
The item gives the exact information of what it does. Damaging abilitys add a 20% slow for 1 second. The visual and Effect are completely logical from the standpoint of the game. Debuff applied, associated animation for debuff applied. If it makes any impact or not does not matter. when your hit by the debuff its apllied. Remember simple is best. If a player does not understand a basic mechanic that's a shame but its not the games problem because the mechanic functions the same way regardless of a players understanding.
End of the day Its observable in game in multiple ways how the mechanic works. If you don't know it to bad. You do not add massive amount of work to code exceptions. You do not reworked a Visual or Audio Que to become inaccurate and remove its consistency because that takes away from the value of having a que.
you don't have to like it but it entirely logical in a game setting.
And thankfully it wont care if you think its logical or not, it will work the same regardless just like gravity or the earth not being flat.
The logic is as I keep telling you very simple. A debuff has been applied, the animation is to let you know the source.
@your logic.
Doesn't work as well when you get very cluttered fights. the visual lets folks know instantly some one has . If your hit by the E and did not check enemy items you will be surprised by the sudden animation and additional slow. The debuff IS on you so you NEED to see it. This conveys the max amount of information with the least amount of work and does not create situations players are surprised by additional CC. To go in an redo the animation for a single instance of CC to make it an exception is insanity.
You don't actualy care about the logic of it or you'd be demanding that you only see visual for relevant CC. But we both know that's a AWFUL idea because you need that information for gameplay. Why should a slow of any kind be visible if your stunned?
Why should silence be visable when your knocked up?
Oh.. right... for gameplay. T
he Debuff from rylas is a weak slow. Stronger slows take priority. It still exists, it also is comeing from a different source then the stronger slow.
Its that simple. Visual = application of CC and gives you an idea of what applied it. Both slows are applied. Your hit with both. Get hit with 4 slows? Your still hit with 4. The debuff still exists when applied regardless of its situational impact
Your welcome to disagree. That's fine. Im just telling you that debuffs have associated visuals and when applied you see that visual. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is currently in the game.
Neosphoros1 votesWould you like finally to write your comments by connecting them to specific pieces of my text? It is extremely difficult to understand which part of my text you answering to (moreover - when I still learning english) and by answering in that way - you escaping from constructive conversation and you have possiblity to symulate new thought but in the real - using the same (or similar; changing apple on lemon will not change that both are fruits) informations that you already have used before.
DrCyanide1 votesIf it was chat bots, you'd get replies/answers to everything, even if they're terrible. We have mods, but mods are for moderating content, not for answering questions. Granted, many mods know answers, but it's not what they're here for.
Neosphoros1 votesThose questions are not random. They are not related with something that is not connecting with LOL and so if answer on them are not a secret - somebody should know at least some admins/moderators.
MrFawknSunshine1 votesthe admins/mods are volunteers who dont work for riot and when it comes to things like how MMR 100% works only those at RIOT will know for sure.
Neosphoros1 votesSo why is the reason for existing this forum (omitting ordinary conversations between players) if only answers I can get - comes from other players... so it means - they can not be accurate and true.
MrFawknSunshine1 voteswell sometimes RIOT employees do post threads/comments
but its a place for people to talk and share ideas and shoot the shit.
as far as most of your questions ( i looked at your post) what you are asking and wanting to know only those at RIOT would know.
such as MMR
you have check points when it comes to honor. and when you reach one it tells you. so that is a progress bar in a way.
testing internet connections before games well you internet can be fine out of a game and be shit in game based on packet loss due to the amount of data being transmitted. just cuz its ok out of a game dont mean it will be fine in game. (you can google latency and games and find this info, hell even riot has made a video about it years ago )
liandrys increase damage dealt over time as you are engaged in fighting, and it procs the burn passive as you fight doing % hp damage as magic damage and if you have skills/abilities that impair the movement of a target it increases this passive to do more damage.
well you cant really tell for 100% if you are playing with or against bots. you can tell based on some clues, if they dont reply in chat, their movements and skills used etc.
the rylais animation could be a visual bug ( once again RIOT would have to address this)
zilean not showing in support tabs of stats? well if you are playing a champ at a role and have more then 3 games of it then it should show, if not its a bug. if there is a lot of champs played in a certain role it will have a tab that you have to click on to show more.
when it comes to match making it depends on the queue each queue has a separate MMR and they based match ups based on similar MMRS in that queue. taking into account premades/duos and over all the teams should have similar mmrs not individual players
now MMR changes constantly and is fluid. its based on a formula that RIOT uses how this effects LP gains/losses and how your MMR changes well if you are put in a situation where you should be the odds to lose a game and win you gain more MMR and MORE LP for doing so if you are placed in the situation where you should be odds to win game and lose you lose more LP and MMR but its constantly adjusting and changing.
not sure what you are asking about detailed info about the profile, ok after reading the post. that use to be on things like LOL KING but if they dont use it anymore and riot isnt making the info available to 3rd party sites there is no way to know. back in the old client in your profiles it did keep this info as part of your rank stats.
if you go to sites like op.gg or leagueofgraphs.com hell maybe even lolalytics.com and look yourself up im sure you can find stats regarding rank games, with kda, cs per 10 etc
Kai Guy1 votes"Here you’ll find all sorts of discussions related to playing League of Legends. From discussions about your personal strategies, to speculation about the next champion or patch, if it’s about playing the game, it goes here. This is not a Board for gameplay bugs, please head on over to Report a Bug for that."
Mordepool1 votesSarcasm.Exe_ could not execute. Error-file not found.
MrFawknSunshine1 votesoh just fyi all my comments and replies were made by a bot
Irelia Bot1 votes"Clearly" - Irelia Bot
Kai Guy1 votes[Here ](http:// https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AspzzwlH-confused-by-matchmaker-join-me-to-learn-more-about-elo-and-mmr-systems) This should answer some of the questions you have for MMR and Elo systems. Rather then keep the clutter In this thread going I made my own. That way even if you don't find it helpful some one else might.
