Why is IBG not melee only? Why is klepto not a Support mastery?

Saezio·Jun 21, 2019·6 votes·5,033 views

Was this designed as a ranged item? Cause it's only used by ranged champions(or at least 75%+ of the people that buy it are not melee). And if it was meant to be a ranged item, why does it have penalty for ranged users?

Seriously Riot, can you address this? If it's designed to be ranged (which I doubt considering it was said to be a tank item back when introduced) BALANCE IT AROUND BEING A RANGED ITEM that's good for many ranged champs and not just cheese picks and Mr.Ezxception.

Also, wasn't klepto supposed to be a support mastery? Why is it not balanced around that? Have they said they decided to make it a solo lane + Mr Ezxception mastery?

25 Comments

Moody PJun 21, 20195 votes

Why would Klepto be a support rune? They're the least gold dependent role.

SaezioJun 21, 20192 votes

To make support more desirable and be able to pick more gold dependant champs into the role.

And because Riot said Klepto was that when they introduced the whole Runes Reforged system.

Moody PJun 21, 20196 votes

gold dependent supports completely defeat the purpose of the role

riot was wrong and im pretty sure everyone knew that day1

SaezioJun 21, 20191 votes

So, it's not ok for supports to narrow the gold gap between them and the other 4 roles but it is ok for laners to be able to make tons more gold than their lane counterpart because they can proc klepto?

And if supports should be not dependant on gold at all why introduce spellthiefs? Doesn't it do the same as klepto does?

D357R0Y3RJun 21, 20191 votes

supports don't need gold to function, all of them were designed to not need gold

unless you're one of those people who want to play a carry mage in the support role and buy damage items

DuskDaUmbreonJun 21, 20193 votes

The gold items exist because supports need some gold. Literally every champion in the game depends on gold to a degree.

However, supports are designed to function on a low income. Making it able to narrow the gap between them and laners more than it already can would break the entire role harder than literally anything else possible.

If a champion's designed to function on half the gold everyone else gets, and suddenly they get 90% of the gold they get, that fucking shatters the balance absolutely. Now the support is, effectively, ahead of all of the laners simply for having klepto, because they have 180% of the gold income they need to stay even in power with them.

SaezioJun 21, 20191 votes

But it's ok for a lane to get tons more gold than their counterpart because they can proc Klepto on CD?

Maybe make klepto only give the items and nerf the gold it gives...like... a lot. something like 4g/10 maybe? And an item per 6-8 procs (no sly sacks obv)

I don't see why it's unthinkable that a support would get more gold than the enemy support, but laners/adc are allowed to get so far ahead of a keystone? Sounds like different approaches to the same thing.

AckelopeJun 21, 20191 votes

it isn't unthinkable... if you want to take klepto on your favorite ranged enchanter supports now, you totally could and try to do stuff with it, it's simply the case that very few of them do, aside from some that benefit heavily from more expensive stats (sona comes to mind), because it's generally better to go with something like aery and work with the income that you get out of your support item, because you don't really need more than that, and end up getting more benefit out of aery shield/comet poke, whatever it is you're going for.

EedatJun 21, 20191 votes

Absolutely not. A role that doesn't farm at all should not have anywhere close to as much gold as one that does

Crispy0SnakeJun 21, 20191 votes

You can still play Klepto on shielding enchanters, you just shield yourself and auto (proc'ing kleto and frostfang gold+frostfang on-hit damage)

Mage supports are all immobile and too squishy to reliably proc klepto enough for it to be worth it compared to a damage keystone, you can get a few hundred gold and look like a juicy gank/get all inned when you wiff your cc or a few thousand damage with comet/electrocute/dark harvest/aery, which do you choose?

Enchanters are good with Klepto because you hit item powerspikes sooner. Support item components make you a blob of hp, the completed items with the actives and passives make you super powerful

Klepto makes you hit item powerspikes way sooner compared to laners because you generate gold at a slower rate as support. Getting a sly sack as supp is huge

ihateyouallmutedJun 21, 20191 votes

I've always said it was meant for top lane melee vs melee match ups, where you are always triggering it (like Grasp's scaling concept). The problem is, if you have a fake rune and the other person has conq, you lose so fucking hard it's gross. Runes = the game.

flibitydooJun 21, 20191 votes

because they are the most consumable dependent

klepto also awards wards and potions (including mana).

it's also highly expected of supports to spend their entire laning phase poking and interacting with their lane opponent than farming minions giving them the most opportunities at triggering it

when runes reforged came out and klepto was revealed, a rioter even mentioned it being designed around support champions like sona and zyra who are heavy on harass.

PermaJinxedJun 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Too bad Zyra usually pokes from outside aa range XD.

When I started at the start of S3, Graves , Corki , and Ezreal were the ONLY adcs in the game... Like at all.... I got sick of Ezreal's near 90% match playrate.... Took years for me to even give the champion a chance..

SweedishGunnerJun 21, 20195 votes

Because Ezreal. Don't worry Riot will Nerf bat Viktor and anyone else for using those items but Ezreal gets a free pass because he sells skins.

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 21, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Because Ezreal. Don't worry Riot will Nerf bat Viktor and anyone else for using those items but Ezreal gets a free pass because he sells skins.

yes which is why pretty much any time ezreal dominates the lane he gets nerfed. maybe he sells skins cuz he's still got a 30% pickrate at 47% winrate?

Caitlyn FTWJun 21, 20194 votes

[deleted]

RagnaveilJun 21, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8kHZaFbR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-21T11:45:02.827+0000)

I've never hated a champion for building an item as much as I hate this little fucker: +

Yeah...not gonna lie, as much as I dont want the blue build to go away, at the same time leaving IBG as is just fucks toplaners.

SaezioJun 21, 20194 votes

You see, I don't have a problem against ezreal being a strong pick (which he isn't even that strong vs competent players) but I hate how the item is balanced around not making him too strong, deeming it unusable for tanks.

Same with klepto (although GP was an abuser of that as well and a reason it's kept on a leash), klepto should have been an alternative for support champions that need a bit more gold to be relevant as damage dealers. But instead it's almost never used on supports and is abused by stuff like viktor/kennen/karma/zilean top and ez ADC.

Just balance ezreal around the ADC items and make IBG melee only and make Klepto grant a CSing penalty. Unless Riot openly admit they have changed their aim with this item and this keystone, and find them healthier this way than what they initially intended.

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 21, 20191 votes

Was this designed as a ranged item? Cause it's only used by ranged champions(or at least 75%+ of the people that buy it are not melee). And if it was meant to be a ranged item, why does it have penalty for ranged users?

it was designed as an item, for champions. No melee or ranged in particular, but preferably tanky. which is why it doesn't have a penalty for ranged use but a penalty for non tank use.

as for masteries they aren't made to be fore specific classes aside from conquerer which was born out of bruiser tears. Klepto got abused by more than just ezreal but hey i know how much y'all like circlejerking ezreal. as for making it support only: why? why do supports need ANOTHER source of gold balanced around em? they already get a ton of gold at this point.

SaezioJun 21, 20191 votes

They got a ton of gold but they are still the lowest income role. Why do laners need ANOTHER source of gold when they are already getting all the minion gold? Why would it EVER be ok on an ADC that is the highest income role that also can opt into Cull if they want to get more gold, but not on support who are not even close to ADC in gold numbers?

Who else abused klepto and was left untouched as a result? GP was nerfed, Viktor was nerfed.

I am not saying ezreal should be nerfed btw, I am saying he should not be balanced around items that suit only him and none else. Make him a trinity force ADC again and balance his numbers around that.

IBG was designed as an item with a ranged penalty that was removed later on, so it was designed as a melee oriented item.

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They got a ton of gold but they are still the lowest income role. Why do laners need ANOTHER source of gold when they are already getting all the minion gold? Why would it EVER be ok on an ADC that is the highest income role that also can opt into Cull if they want to get more gold, but not on support who are not even close to ADC in gold numbers?

Alright so why do they need another income ontop of their already good income AND cheap as fuck items? Adc in theory should get about the same income a midlaner or toplane gets as it's still just a lane, and ezreal is the only one that uses klepto. He's also the biggest special case when it comes to adc as he's basically an ad mage.

Who else abused klepto and was left untouched as a result? GP was nerfed, Viktor was nerfed.

I don't remember the exact patches so i'm not gonna go say anything with 100% certainty but if i recall correctly klepto was already reworked by the time viktor started using it and it was nerfed prior because of both ezreal and GP.

so why would ez be treated better than gp? well ez isn't a lategame monster. Playing vs klepto GP felt awfull, he just sat back under turret and scaled stupidly fast while you had to sit and watch. Ezreal ain't scaling after mid game.

Karma is using it now i heard. I think nasus uses it occasionally.

I am not saying ezreal should be nerfed btw, I am saying he should not be balanced around items that suit only him and none else. Make him a trinity force ADC again and balance his numbers around that.

It's not that he isn''t a trinity adc anymore. Trinity still sees a large pickrate on ezreal, personally i almost always go for trinity. But really why would you go trinity atm? Hybrid build allows for decent damage while IBG allows you to survive in the current meta. He mainly goes it because at higher elo's he just simply NEEDS it to get by.

IBG was designed as an item with a ranged penalty that was removed later on, so it was designed as a melee oriented item.

it was changed to have a bigger slow for melee and smaller for ranged in s3 i think. i didn't play back then but looking at the items changes it seems to originally have been equal. Then it was changed to appeal to armor users more, Malphite became unstoppable that patch i'm pretty sure.