Garen Needs A Rework

Omnem Occido··14 votes·2,526 views

There needs to be a point in time when we have to realize that despite nostalgia, you have to recognize that some champions just aren’t healthy as is. Garen is one such champion. In higher ELOs, he’s absolute trash, and in lower ELOs, he teaches bad mechanics by allowing players to take advantage of people who make positioning and kiting mistakes, possibly the most common mistake made by lower ELO players, while reinforcing this "facecheck the enemy team while E is up" mentality.

He’s just a bad champion with dated abilities who desperately needs a rework. So here goes nothing.

Innate: A Worthy Opponent- For each second Garen is in combat with an enemy champion, he gains a stack of Determination, lasting for four seconds once out of combat, stacking up to 8 times. Each stack causes 5.25% of all damage Garen deals to be dealt as True Damage and grants Garen 3.75% slow resistance.

Q: Righteous Fury- Garen swings a mighty blow, dealing (40, 60, 80, 100, 120)(+50% AD) physical damage in a half circle in front of him and stunning enemies his for 1 second. His next basic attack deals (60, 80, 100, 120, 140)(+120% AD) physical damage.

> Cost: None Cooldown: (8, 7.5, 7, 6.5, 6) seconds Ability Type: AoE, Basic Attack Modifier Windup: 0.75 seconds AoE Radius: 300

W: For the King!- Passive: Whenever Garen kills an enemy unit, he gains +0.3 Armor and Magic Resist. Active- Garen charges forward, increasing his movement speed by (20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%) for 4 seconds. Enemies within a certain distance away from Garen moving away from him are slowed by (20%, 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%) during this duration.

> Cost: None Cooldown: (15, 14, 13, 12, 11) Ability Type: Self Buff Radius: 550

E: Decisive Strike- Garen swings his sword with blistering speed, sending a shockwave in front of him that deals (60, 90, 120, 150, 180)(+100% AD) physical damage to enemies hit and silences them for (1.5, 1.75, 2, 2.25, 2.5) seconds. This ability deals 50% bonus damage to enemies hit by his sword.

R: Judgement- Passive- Garen’s attacks and abilities that hit an enemy champion grant him heath regen per 5 seconds equal to 1.875% of his missing health per stack of Determination, lasting 5 seconds. Subsequent attacks and abilities reset this duration. Active- Garen marks the targeted enemy champion as Villain. For the next 4 seconds, Garen gains +25% movement speed while moving towards the Villain, and deals 15% bonus damage to that champion. At the end of this duration, Garen brings judgement down upon the unit, dealing (100, 200, 300) plus 35% of the target’s missing health as physical damage.

This version of Garen is designed to give him some measure of range and retain some of his unique characteristics, while also filling out his identity as a Juggernaut. His innate makes him much more deadly as the fight continues, a standard for the subclass. Because of the removal of the old Judgement and the rethinking of Decisive Strike, he relies more on his auto attacks for damage, and his new E: Decisive Strike allows him to input a small measure of utility while remaining at safe enough distance for a tank. Lastly, his ult is now designed to have some measure of counterplay. If you are low on health with no resources, it’s a death sentence still, but with a clearly defined “Do or Die” moment, it allows the player the opportunity to pop a last second Barrier or any other shield/heal. In return, Garen gains the ability to single out a target and be stronger against/more sticky to that champion.

These are honestly just some of the thoughts I had, and I understand that I may have him overtuned or undertuned, but the biggest thing I want is for Garen to change from what he is now to something else. Thoughts?

29 Comments

Lord Coffee4 votes

Keep his spin and regeneration.

Omnem Occido3 votes

Of all of his abilities, I dislike his spin the most.

Lord Coffee4 votes

Might aswell just make it a new champion if you get rid of his spin. lol

Omnem Occido3 votes

Gonna be honest, it's the reason why he's so bad, and the ability should be dropped from the game entirely. Its ridiculously short range, he relies on it for 90% of his damage, he can't auto during it, and it teaches terrible mechanics to players because when people are actually inside the area, it's oppressive damage, so it's very useful in ELOs that can't kite. That being said, you are pretty much guaranteed to have people use it, as a no cost ability, for pretty much anything. This leads not only to players that just go brazenly after the enemy in dumb situations (facechecking a bush to find a 1v5), but also players who don't farm and wave control properly, because Garen can just 100-0 minions with a little damage, so they are perma pushed.

KingDrego1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Omnem Occido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8jvKMFdH,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-23T09:38:33.571+0000)

Gonna be honest, it's the reason why he's so bad, and the ability should be dropped from the game entirely. Its ridiculously short range, he relies on it for 90% of his damage, he can't auto during it, and it teaches terrible mechanics to players because when people are actually inside the area, it's oppressive damage, so it's very useful in ELOs that can't kite. That being said, you are pretty much guaranteed to have people use it, as a no cost ability, for pretty much anything. This leads not only to players that just go brazenly after the enemy in dumb situations (facechecking a bush to find a 1v5), but also players who don't farm and wave control properly, because Garen can just 100-0 minions with a little damage, so they are perma pushed.

i know this is old but make his ult the spin and add a grab to it like one of the gods from smite. u still keep the spin which people love and give him the perfect opener

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

His regen is not what a juggernaut should ever have.

Rewarding yourself for being a coward and NOT fighting?

Him having regen is fine, but it activating when out of combat is never fine.

TimX24968B3 votes

rewarding him for sitting out of a fight and not diving in at low hp? complementing his low mobility to not have to recall? not sure what you're saying...

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Why would a juggernaut who wants to rampage throughout a battlefield reward himself for NOT doing so?

You are 100% ignoring what I said, him having regen of some sort is fine, but it should not be tied to something that is against what a juggernaut wants to do.

Garen's passive being tied to out of combat completely contradicts design riot wants for juggernauts.

None of the other juggernauts have a mechanic that's exclusive to being out of combat.

Hell if you want to even talk about low on HP, I'm pretty sure several of the other juggernauts are even moreso dangerous at lower HP when enemies think they're done. Then they misuse skills and boom darius gets a big heal and enabled 5 stacks, or illaoi gets multiple tentacle offs, morde gets a shield back for a final fight, volibear gets his passive, nasus still has a Q+lifesteal threat. Just noone but garen is being held back by something tied to cowarding out of a fight as a juggernaut.

TóxicoChicoGuapo3 votes

I'm just gonna be straight up. he is the one who got shafted the worst out of the juggernaut update. all the other 3 got big changes that made them feel totally different. morde got a potential bot lane playstyle and ghost dragon as well as the 3 hit bop. darius is completely different and far better now. skarner may not be what players want but he is unique in game. the spires make him feel unique in game. (not in a good way obviously) but garen? literally the exact same fucking champion who now just randomly gets bonus damage off whoever is winning on the enemy team the most. like what? how fucking lazy was that.

garen should be a priority for a full VGU as he is an ICONIC league champion. and riot shouldn't use the excuse that garen is meant to be simple. Warwick was updated, kept very simple, and is much cooler thematically, visually, and his kit is WAY better now.

TimX24968B1 votes

that would be difficult since both garen's e and R (one of the few true executes in the game, like veigar ult) are extremely iconic. I could see them do something with his E like axe from DOTA where every time he hits an enemy the duration is extended, but thats it. he also has a iconic silence (one of the few left in the game), and not to mention, garen's the most mobile of those juggernauts through his q. (skarner spires are conditional)

TheJakeinator2 votes

This is the most broken thing ive ever read on the boards hands down

Omnem Occido1 votes

Is it overtuned or are the concepts broken? Again, I'm just here to offer an idea, but my real complaint is that his kit as is is gimped as fuck.

OatheSworn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Omnem Occido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8jvKMFdH,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T20:11:44.026+0000)

Is it overtuned or are the concepts broken? Again, I'm just here to offer an idea, but my real complaint is that his kit as is is gimped as fuck.

If he can have over 40% true damage off his passive alone... not to mention a silence that lasts 2.25 seconds...

DarkPh0enix2 votes

Both the kit and the numbers are OP, bad idea, Garen is one of the burstiest Juggernauts (along with Mordekaiser), fuck giving him hard CC. Also, that's a lot of true damage. Finally, Riot wants Juggernauts to be peelable, so no slow resistances. Garen's slow cleanse is allowed because it is instantaneous.

Commander Javik2 votes

They've anounced a full Gameplay Update on Aatrox . I wish they would focus more on Garen than Aatrox .

RainXBlade2 votes

I like the fact that you want to make Garen into this burly bruiser with a good mix of autoattack and ability damage. Then again, his passive would be crazy considering that even if it's a small percent, true dmg can't be mitigated and you can get a lot of effective dmg out of that small percentage of the damage he deals with his abilities and autoattacks. Also, I think the after effect of the "reworked" ult would be buggy if the target were to for example, blink out of Garen's range to execute the Villain. I used to main Garen so I have a good idea on what you want to happen with him.

Also, I like the touch on the ult granting him in-combat sustain. However, I think you should either push the regen a bit higher or increase his base armor and MR to make him a bit tougher to deal with. Hopefully, Riot would have an interest in your ideas for a potential rework to Garen.

Omnem Occido1 votes

I was thinking that his ult would be like Zed's, where it pops regardless.

RainXBlade1 votes

Making a sword fall out of the sky that's targeting the villain that's not within Garen's range would be in academic terms, absurd and unnecessary. We can make it though that once Garen has targeted a to-be-villain, the villain and Garen have an "invisible" tether attached to each other where the closer they are, the higher judgement's damage is and vice versa.

AwesomeGuyDj2 votes

I dont fucking care if they turn him into a second yasuo. Just. Remove. That. Damn. Silence.

TimX24968B1 votes

too iconic.

Edo19961 votes

As much as I would love for him to get a rework because he sucks dick (Dude didn't get played in lcs since season 3) The problem is that riot said they have priorities and he won't get a rework until 2025 :P

TimX24968B1 votes

that, and he's not even designed to be played at that level. riot has said this many times that he won't be getting a rework http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/02/ask-riot-malzahar-kills-the-lady/

"So if you take a popular lower ELO champion like Garen and vow that he needs to be picked at pro, you could end up with a monster with a 65%+ winrate in Silver. You could do a big rework on him so that his winrate in Silver was around 50% and close to that for pro, but he might end up so mechanically complex that he isn’t as popular as he is today (or more likely, probably wouldn’t stay at 50% in Silver for long)."

Justíce Reformed1 votes

Over tuned? yes. Does it sound fun as fuck to play? also yes. i've seen lot of Garen posts regarding his rework, but this sounds like the best one i've seen if i'm honest.

TimX24968B1 votes

would it still be garen at that point? no.

TimX24968B1 votes

not gonna happen. riot has said this many times that he won't be getting a rework http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/02/ask-riot-malzahar-kills-the-lady/

"So if you take a popular lower ELO champion like Garen and vow that he needs to be picked at pro, you could end up with a monster with a 65%+ winrate in Silver. You could do a big rework on him so that his winrate in Silver was around 50% and close to that for pro, but he might end up so mechanically complex that he isn’t as popular as he is today (or more likely, probably wouldn’t stay at 50% in Silver for long)."

not to mention he's not even a tier 1.

Omnem Occido1 votes

If they want him to be a low ELO champion, at least make his kit something we can learn on, instead of reinforcing bad traits. Garen in low ELO as he is now teaches that all you have to do is press E and rub your face into everything, then R when they get low.

TimX24968B1 votes

thing is, that would be a rework.
he teaches how executes work he teaches how to benefit from farming through his W passive he teaches how to both engage and disengage in the simplest way through his q his passive teaches you how to wait out on a fight or trade until you are ready he teaches all of this while being able to do it safely since he builds somewhat tanky typically

some of the most basic things you think would be implied and already inherently known by the player sometimes aren't. Try teaching someone who has never played a moba. would you rather teach them while they try to play zed or garen

Finally, simplicity isn't a design flaw. nor is binariness. else this game might just have 137 versions of lee sin with slight tiny variations between each one

XˆAˆNˆA1 votes

Have my up vote. Getting stomped by a nobrainer champ dosent feel good.

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