Towers feel like a fly trap and ADC are the flies

Hexs Fortune·Jul 9, 2018·75 votes·15,057 views

They hover about believing they can safely cs, only to get dove and killed under a false sense of security.

40 Comments

MarshbouyJul 9, 201819 votes

This is pretty much every class though TBH, but ADCs definitely have it the worst.

OtterlyLostJul 9, 20187 votes

Agreed. At least people hesitate for bruisers or tanks or end up punished for supports and mages. ADCs got nothing to save them from inevitable dives.

Ayame IsakiJul 9, 201829 votes

Janna Lulu : "We used to save ADCs from those inevitable dives, but that slowed the snowball meta, so our items and our shields got nerfed."

OtterlyLostJul 9, 201816 votes

Dont remind me. :( I miss legitimate supports. I dont even remember the last time I saw thresh or blitz even. Its all damage supports now.

remakoroJul 9, 20181 votes

Well blitz or thresh werent played for ages. When Lulu and Janne were ruling over the rift with their AA Bots, tanky supports werent around for the most part.

OtterlyLostJul 9, 20185 votes

Not true. Blitz/thresh were plenty common with janna/lulu because they inherently counter janna/lulu. Particularly blitzcrank who pulls them to him and keeps them CC'd long enough that it's hard for them to turn it around. Alistar/leona got shoved out for a short while but were back when aftermath was completely over tuned.

Radiant WukongJul 10, 20181 votes

You must not remember Volibear and Maokai being the highest win rate tank supports a few seasons back. I'm thinking S4.

remakoroJul 10, 20181 votes

why the fuck are you bringing season 4? this is so unrelated that its crazy. Im clearly talking about THIS season. Tanky supports went completely extinct this year.

saltranJul 9, 20184 votes

And we, adc mains, will always love the enchanters players.

La BelloJul 9, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8ffxaE41,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-09T16:39:51.106+0000)

: "We used to save ADCs from those inevitable dives, but that slowed the snowball meta, so our items and our shields got nerfed."

these champs still do prevent dives also the nerfs were completely warranted. the heal/shield powercreep was absolutely insane.

also PROTIP Taric Alistar TahmKench Poppy are supposed to be "hard peel" supports

Chembaron YamadaJul 9, 20184 votes

To be fair (and I say this as a mastery 7 Janna), Janna is still a strong pick even after these nerfs. Lulu could use some help, tho.

Ayame IsakiJul 10, 20181 votes

I think Janna is still a strong pick for those who have experience with her; the nerfs raised her skill floor a bit as you need to get good at using your E at the last possible moment (as well as knowing when using it will result in a long duration AD buff for the target).

The decaying shield really hurts against assassins (or anything that can 100-0) as it only has full strength for a fraction of a second. On the flip side, the ease of removal of her shield due to decay means it is slightly less valuable as a buff to your ADC's AD and as such, it feels slightly less bad to use on other teammates as an anti-burst mechanism.

Also /highfive fellow M7 Janna!

Subject 5Jul 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8ffxaE41,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-09T16:39:51.106+0000)

: "We used to save ADCs from those inevitable dives, but that slowed the snowball meta, so our items and our shields got nerfed."

Like more than half of Lulu's Kit got raped over like 2 years, feels bad man. Janna is going to feel the wrath of Lulu's Past.

But in all seriousness, Supports being strong suppressed all other roles from snowballing: It made it so that if you did extremely well top and mid, you couldn't solo carry: but if you got fed as an ADC you basically became a god. Supports SHOULD stop snowballing when they're around, that's like, you know, what they do.

I think it's more the imbalance of ADC lead to the supports demise, the playerbase is a lot more submissive and 'yesman' than ADC who are literal steroid junkies.

benjiygao99Jul 10, 20182 votes

Rip Karma

0 shield

45% winrate

Ayame IsakiJul 10, 20181 votes

I thought she was simply deleted from the game. /s

In all seriousness, I should have included Karma in the list and I'm sorry for that.

[sg-lulu]

Yordle XayahJul 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

This is pretty much every class though TBH, but ADCs definitely have it the worst.

ADC and some squishy mages I feel. Mages in Mid, but more so in bot.

MarshbouyJul 9, 20181 votes

yeah some ones like Velkoz have it just as bad.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 10, 20181 votes

what about imobile mages ;~;

MalakJul 9, 20186 votes

Same for mages vs assassins. Funny part is that while bot gets doved by 2-3 people, mid gets doved by 1 assassin and sometimes the jungler comes in for some free assists.

Nothing to do with ADCs, all to do with the high amounts of random damage in this game because of masteries, buffed ignite, nerfed defensive summoners, and damage creep from champion/items

Demonblade TalonJul 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Same for mages vs assassins. Funny part is that while bot gets doved by 2-3 people, mid gets doved by 1 assassin and sometimes the jungler comes in for some free assists.

Nothing to do with ADCs, all to do with the high amounts of random damage in this game because of masteries, buffed ignite, nerfed defensive summoners, and damage creep from champion/items

Except mages are incredibly overpowered and cc anyone trying to dive them, zyonyas, pool away, etc.

3TWarriorJul 10, 20181 votes

most hard CC skillshots are also so slow that assassins can blink, dash or even walk out of the way of them

for instance, try hitting a zed with Anivia's Q

try hitting an Ekko with velkoz's knock up

there are very few mages with targeted hard CC and most of them have traded power for safety

take twisted fate for instance, he's good at roaming, punishing early, stopping ganks and etc while having a targeted stun. His targeted stun is also delayed and his kit has a total power of 1/4th to 1/5th of a ziggs with identical items

Daddy AntsJul 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Same for mages vs assassins. Funny part is that while bot gets doved by 2-3 people, mid gets doved by 1 assassin and sometimes the jungler comes in for some free assists.

Nothing to do with ADCs, all to do with the high amounts of random damage in this game because of masteries, buffed ignite, nerfed defensive summoners, and damage creep from champion/items

It's a combination of a lot of things

Burst damage
Assassin balance in general.
Towers are terrible at protecting allies.
Risk to reward ratio on Tower diving is heavily favored to reward. There's next to no risk.

Take Bot Lane for example.

Champions like Janna Lulu and items like item 3047 are meant to be counters to champions like Assassin's.

But this is Riot Games.

Zed Talon Rengar Shaco : Rito pls. We're sick of Janna, Lulu and Tabi's preventing us from going full retard with our cooldowns and deleting the squishies before they can react.

List of changes made that benefit Assassin's so far;

8.4

Zed:

Death Mark Cooldown reduced to 120 / 90 / 60 seconds from 120 / 100 / 80.

8.6

Ignite: Total true damage increased to 80 - 505 (based on level) from 70 - 410 (based on level).

Heal: Cooldown increased from 240 seconds to 270 seconds.

Talon: Blade's End Base damage increased to 75 - 245 (based on level) from 75 - 175 (based on level).

Shadow Assault Bonus AD ratio increased to 100% bonus AD from 80%.

Zed:

Death Mark Percentage of damage stored increased to 25 / 40 / 55% from 20 / 35 / 45%.

8.7

Ninja Tabi: Armor reduced to 20 from 30.

Zed: Razor Shuriken Secondary bonus AD ratio increased to 54% bonus AD from 45%. Secondary base damage increased to 48 / 69 / 90 / 111 / 132 from 40 / 57.5 / 75 / 92.5 / 110.

8.10:

Talon: Noxian Diplomacy BUG FIX: Range increased to 575 from 500. (Bugfix but still huge for him power wise)

8.11:

Marksman base armor reduced by 5 across the board.

item 3147 is all an Assassin needs to deal near True Damage to a Marksman.

8.12:

Lulu: E - Help, Pix! SHIELD DURATION 6 seconds ⇒ 2.5 seconds PIX ALLY ATTACHMENT DURATION 6 seconds (unchanged)

Janna: E - Eye Of The Storm NEW DECAY Eye of the Storm's shield now decays over its duration after a 0.75 grace period

Karma: E - Inspire SHIELD DURATION 4 seconds ⇒ 2.5 seconds (also applies to Mantra'd E - Defiance)

Orianna: E - Command: Protect SHIELD DURATION 4 seconds ⇒ 2.5 seconds

Forbidden Idol COOLDOWN REDUCTION 10% ⇒ 5% HEAL AND SHIELD POWER 8% ⇒ 5%

Ardent Censer HEAL AND SHIELD POWER 10% ⇒ 8%

Mikael's Crucible HEAL AND SHIELD POWER 20% ⇒ 15%

Redemption HEAL AND SHIELD POWER 10% ⇒ 8%

8.13:

Domination: WITH PRECISION 13 ability power/7.8 attack damage ⇒ 14 ability power/8.4 attack damage WITH SORCERY 18 ability power/10.8 attack damage ⇒ 20 ability power/12 attack damage WITH RESOLVE 9 ability power/5.5 attack damage ⇒ 10 ability power/6 attack damage WITH INSPIRATION 18 ability power/10.8 attack damage ⇒ 20 ability power/12 attack damage

Last 7 or 8 patches have in some way being a buff to Assassin's.

Tanks are useless due to Conqueror Bruisers so they aren't there to counter Assassin's.

Who's meant to counter Assassin's? Supports?

But they got nerfed !

goodiesohhiJul 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's a combination of a lot of things

Burst damage

Assassin balance in general.

Towers are terrible at protecting allies.

Risk to reward ratio on Tower diving is heavily favored to reward. There's next to no risk.

Take Bot Lane for example.

Champions like and items like are meant to be counters to champions like Assassin's.

But this is Riot Games.

: Rito pls. We're sick of Janna, Lulu and Tabi's preventing us from going full retard with our cooldowns and deleting the squishies before they can react.

List of changes made that benefit Assassin's so far; is all an Assassin needs to deal near True Damage to a Marksman.

Last 7 or 8 patches have in some way being a buff to Assassin's.

Tanks are useless due to Conqueror.

Who's meant to counter Assassin's? Supports?

But they got nerfed !

I don't know any Assasins who takes conqueror

Daddy AntsJul 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't know any Assasins who takes conqueror

Fixed it.

I worded wrong what I wanted to say.

goodiesohhiJul 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Fixed it.

I worded wrong what I wanted to say.

Yeah I figured. Just brought it up as others may be confused. Good job. Good points all round.

Pika FoxJul 9, 20183 votes

Towers do offer relative safety, but you need to put in some work yourself. If youre low HP, they arent going to save you. If youre by yourself with no utility, again, not gunna save you.

Its not that towers do no/little damage, or are weaker, its just that people got better at managing tower agro and judging when its actually safe to dive with how many shots they can take.

RaiyzaJul 9, 20183 votes

Tower damage is fine, but the rate at which they fire needs to be increased. Base towers need to be buffed for sure.

FCJAAAAGOOOOJul 9, 20183 votes

At this time, they stand no chance of mating.

SanKakUJul 9, 20181 votes

If they or their support would bother to stop the opposing champs while they have dealt damage to them, it would result in the tower being able to lob a hefty amount of damage at them. If you can't work with a tower which is never going to let you down then either you're picking the wrong champs or you're panicking. Of course, in general, I do believe it is a mistake to think that letting the wave be at your tower is good for you. It's not.

5050BSJul 9, 20181 votes

Its really bad when two squishies can dive someone under turret in Silver and both live while getting the kill under lvl 10

Akali PrimeJul 9, 20181 votes

we cri evrytahm Jhin Jhin Jhin Jhin

3TWarriorJul 10, 20181 votes

TahmKench : looks like a four course meal to me, mmm, mmm

Neptunia xoxoJul 9, 20181 votes

So towers are supposed to be unkillable gods and if someone gets 5man dove by himself hes supposed to get a penta because his tower can 1 shot everyone?

FurriesAreHotJul 9, 20183 votes

Do I even need to comment how this is a strawman?

Neptunia xoxoJul 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Do I even need to comment how this is a strawman?

Do explain.

goodiesohhiJul 10, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fk me Ahri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8ffxaE41,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-07-10T11:29:06.395+0000)

Do explain.

Strawman is a logical fallacy where a person weakens someone elses point with a distortion or weakening of info and attacks that point. OP never stated that towers are supposed to be strong enough to score pentakills. Instead of having a meaningfull argument, you pulled a comment out of your ass that attacks a point the OP didn't make.