Leona

PhearBunny·Dec 31, 2018·3 votes·1,428 views

Either give her back her damage, or give her E quality of life/reliability buffs. Shes easy to play and as a result has a decent playrate and winrate, but she is mechanically a bad champion. High risk, low reward(Because her damage was gutted with season8). Her E is so telegraphed, and easy to outright hardcounter/dodge/predict, and this was justified by the fact that she used to deal significant burst damage.

Today it isn't justified by anything. Theres no reason for her E to be so bad, she isn't a threat anymore.

44 Comments

GreenKnightDec 31, 20184 votes

Damage? On Leona? Bad mechanics on LEONA?!

It looks i'm not the only drunk person on boards today.

BradNoDec 31, 20183 votes

Yeah, let's give a tanky support damage. Great idea. While we're at it, let's give her an AOE stun, too.

GreenKnightDec 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, let's give a tanky support damage. Great idea. While we're at it, let's give her an AOE stun, too.

...Leo has AOE stun on ult.

BradNoJan 1, 20191 votes

Not that one. The one she gets when she autos you.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, let's give a tanky support damage. Great idea. While we're at it, let's give her an AOE stun, too.

you mean like Alistar?

BradNoJan 1, 20191 votes

I'm being sarcastic. My point is she has too much CC to even be considered a damage increase

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I'm being sarcastic. My point is she has too much CC to even be considered a damage increase

I did say..."give her damage back, OR give Zenith Blade reliability buffs". The whole reason Zenith Blade is as bad as it is, is because it was designed with her huge amounts of burst damage she used to have in mind. They took away her damage, and gave her nothing in return. So now Zenith Blade is bad, but for no reason.

BradNoJan 1, 20191 votes

wtf are you talking about? The reason they took the burst damage away from her is because SHE IS A SUPPORT.

Plus: Zenith Blade is still good. It does what it needs to do.

GreenKnightJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I did say..."give her damage back, OR give Zenith Blade reliability buffs". The whole reason Zenith Blade is as bad as it is, is because it was designed with her huge amounts of burst damage she used to have in mind. They took away her damage, and gave her nothing in return. So now Zenith Blade is bad, but for no reason.

Mate, how many times do we have to say it to you? LEONA DOESN'T NEED DMG. She's fine enough as it is, one of the last pure tanks in League.

Icy Hot ShotoDec 31, 20182 votes

I've watched a full tank Leona solo chase a teammate under our tower, kill them, and then get away without dying. I really don't think Leona needs a damage buff. Please no.

And for those who are wondering: It wasn't a feeding/inting teammate, it was actually someone doing decently well but just couldn't seem to damage the full armor Leona even with an armor pen item.

FemalesAreLesserDec 31, 20181 votes

i was hoping the post was going to be Title - Leona Body- Now with Jetpacks! But personally i think she is very very good and does alot of damage with an adc who can proc her passive between stuns and hits. her without her damage is still a big problem for most champions without any Mobility. and i dont believe any champion that has 3 hard CC in their kit should also do high numbers of damage with how low the cooldowns are on the abilities. and i also think she is not at all high risk, low reward. if anything shes low risk, med- high reward. cause most her engages start with her ulti, if it hits, the person with QSS isnt moving for abbout 5 years, and with her immense ammount of tank stats with maxing W and Aftershock, if the follow up isnt super well done, she can Walk away. with her 2-300 resistances and 3K hp. even while building full tank, she can easily solo an adc who doesnt have build in shred of immense lifesteal.

PhearBunnyDec 31, 20181 votes

She only has two advantageous matchups in the bot lane... Literally every other matchup is a direct counter to Leona.

The two champions shes a strong pick into being Sona and Soraka.. Her extremely binary and easy to play kit is the only thing keeping her afloat.

GreenKnightDec 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

She only has two advantageous matchups in the bot lane... Literally every other matchup is a direct counter to Leona.

The two champions shes a strong pick into being Sona and Soraka.. Her extremely binary and easy to play kit is the only thing keeping her afloat.

Blitzcrank, Bard, Annie, Tahm Kench, Nautilus, hell, even Zyra. If you have problems with counters, then you need to practice more.

PhearBunnyDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Blitzcrank, Bard, Annie, Tahm Kench, Nautilus, hell, even Zyra. If you have problems with counters, then you need to practice more.

Blitzcrank is the only case where you are correct.

GreenKnightDec 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Blitzcrank is the only case where you are correct.

...you really need to play as or against Leona more.

But sure, whatever you say, mate.

PhearBunnyDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

...you really need to play as or against Leona more.

But sure, whatever you say, mate.

Tahm is one of her hardest counters you know...

GreenKnightJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tahm is one of her hardest counters you know...

Never had any problems against Tahm myself. As Leo i have ways of shutting him down, the only thing that he can do to counter me, is to eat his laner so he can dodge my stuns.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Never had any problems against Tahm myself. As Leo i have ways of shutting him down, the only thing that he can do to counter me, is to eat his laner so he can dodge my stuns.

yeah...the whole point of Leo is catching picks. Tahm is anti picks. He's just going to eat the Lucian you caught. Or if you go on him, hes just going to eat you, and spit you into Lucian and you're dead because from a combative aspect Tahm is about 800% more effective than Leona.

PhearBunnyDec 31, 20181 votes

I really think she deserves to be buffed to Alistars level of reliability. Since he is the same champion, only better in every way. Zenith Blade could use a faster cast time, with a tiny window of CC immunity upon it tagging a target.

bluegolisanoDec 31, 20182 votes

Alistar isn't reliable unless the player knows how to chain WQ seamlessly. Otherwise the W knocks them over walls.

I know that I can't do it reliably enough without knowing some sort of automated self-play, such as Sivir E, is going to happen when I W a champ. Either that, or I wait until a minion is close enough that I can target that with the headbutt and instantly pulverize afterwards for a free knockup.

Leona also happens to have a r%%%%%ed amount of single-target CC chain. You see a Kata mid to late game, she's going to die if she fights a team with Leo because her E stops Kata ult, and is a root - directly into a 3s stun followed by a 3.5-4s stun.

Long story short, Leona is good for late game teamfights when you can CC chain a damage carry and make them become a nonfactor for the fight.

BradNoJan 1, 20191 votes

E Q??? Don't you mean W Q? His E*** is the 5 tick stun, my dude

bluegolisanoJan 1, 20191 votes

not played Alistar recently (IE as in not within the last season or so), and originally was going to pop W as the headbutt, though I thought about it and thought wrong.

cheers for the correction.

JustDonnyyDec 31, 20181 votes

This might just be my 'Low-elo' talking but she's a pain in the ass to lane against if she knows what she's doing.

Support 4 LyfeDec 31, 20181 votes

She's annoying as HELL in lane.

JustDonnyyDec 31, 20181 votes

One of my best friends is a heavy support main and Leona is one of the few champions that he'll dislike going against. I only play ADC very rarely but I can see why he thinks that.

Mc RatonDec 31, 20181 votes

I agree Leona is binary and if you don't have an Adc that follow your engage, you are basically screwed up.. Does she need QoL change ? Maybe. Is she in any ways weak? Absolutly no. The only thing that bother me as Leona is being denied by CC mid air with Zenith blade but hey, if they remove this counterplay, all you have to do is spam E until the enemy get killed because other than flashing, you are most likely dead as Leona can chain her ultimate during E channel and finish you off with Q. A good Leona know when to engage and how to chain combo. A normal Leona don't and cry about being countered when her sole purpose is a front line engage to lock down the enemy. Her real weakness is not being able to self proc her passive and being ADC reliant. If her carry doesn't proc passive as much as possible you lose in DPS and you make yourself in danger to get blown up. But I can confirm you that Leona is way harder to kill than champion that apparently do her job better like you say. She outshine Tresh, Blitz, Pyke, and a good Leona outshine a Braum. The only tank you might see on bot lane that will outshine Leona in tankyness is Nautilus and he is rarely seen... so.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mc Raton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8fWOYZyE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-12-31T23:58:18.134+0000)

I agree Leona is binary and if you don't have an Adc that follow your engage, you are basically screwed up.. Does she need QoL change ? Maybe. Is she in any ways weak? Absolutly no. The only thing that bother me as Leona is being denied by CC mid air with Zenith blade but hey, if they remove this counterplay, all you have to do is spam E until the enemy get killed because other than flashing, you are most likely dead as Leona can chain her ultimate during E channel and finish you off with Q. A good Leona know when to engage and how to chain combo. A normal Leona don't and cry about being countered when her sole purpose is a front line engage to lock down the enemy.

knowing when to engage/when to fight is a aspect that every champion in the game needs to know. Its not exclusive to Leona, therefore is an irrelevant thing to be looking at when evaluating her. The whole CC(literally any CC) hard countering Zenith blade makes her borderline unplayable vs competent opponents who actually know how to stop Zenith Blade it its tracks..... Just look for the extremely slow, extremely telegraphed cast animation, and point and click CC, Skill shot CC, or use a dash mechanic on it, and now Leona is useless waddling around for 8 seconds unable to do anything until Zenith is up again.

Really the only niche where she is even a halfway decent choice is if you're vs a extremely heavy melee diver oriented team, with you just sitting on your ADC's face waiting for someone to dive onto him. In which case, Alistar is still a better choice.

Mc RatonJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

knowing when to engage/when to fight is a aspect that every champion in the game needs to know. Its not exclusive to Leona, therefore is an irrelevant thing to be looking at when evaluating her. The whole CC(literally any CC) hard countering Zenith blade makes her borderline unplayable vs competent opponents who actually know how to stop Zenith Blade it its tracks..... Just look for the extremely slow, extremely telegraphed cast animation, and point and click CC, Skill shot CC, or use a dash mechanic on it, and now Leona is useless waddling around for 8 seconds unable to do anything until Zenith is up again.

Really the only niche where she is even a halfway decent choice is if you're vs a extremely heavy melee diver oriented team, with you just sitting on your ADC's face waiting for someone to dive onto him. In which case, Alistar is still a better choice.

Same case apply to everyone. It include Alistar. Alistar isn't CC immune either. You cry about easy to counter but you can counter Alistar as much. Your opinion is biased and you whine about Leona 1 time a week at least. Legit stop.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mc Raton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8fWOYZyE,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-01-01T01:03:50.050+0000)

Same case apply to everyone. It include Alistar. Alistar isn't CC immune either. You cry about easy to counter but you can counter Alistar as much. Your opinion is biased and you whine about Leona 1 time a week at least. Legit stop.

Alistars headbutt = Zenith blade, but its literally 6x faster and deals more damage...

GreenKnightJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Alistars headbutt = Zenith blade, but its literally 6x faster and deals more damage...

No? His E is a displacement, Zenith is a root and a projectile. It can also be fired blind, and applies passive.

Mc RatonJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Alistars headbutt = Zenith blade, but its literally 6x faster and deals more damage...

What tank need is not damage... if you say tank require damage to do their job, you are biased.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mc Raton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8fWOYZyE,comment-id=00070000000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-01T01:45:37.588+0000)

What tank need is not damage... if you say tank require damage to do their job, you are biased.

when did I even say that tanks are required to deal damage???

The point is that Alistars Headbutt is faster, more reliable, AND deals more damage than Zenith Blade. Its all around better. Just like Pulverize is all around better than Shield of Daybreak.

Alistar and Leonas kits are essentially the same, Alistars abilities are just better from a usability, reliability, and a damage perspective, which shouldn't be the case.

Mc RatonJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

when did I even say that tanks are required to deal damage???

The point is that Alistars Headbutt is faster, more reliable, AND deals more damage than Zenith Blade. Its all around better. Just like Pulverize is all around better than Shield of Daybreak.

Alistar and Leonas kits are essentially the same, Alistars abilities are just better from a usability, reliability, and a damage perspective, which shouldn't be the case.

Yea but alistar have to rush on them . He also can't AoE stun from distance. He don't have resistance boost on a basic ability and is heavily gated on mana pool because his mana is really low unless you truly invest in mana item.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

RELIABILITY BUFFS TO ZENITH BLADE. CAN YOU READ?

bluegolisanoJan 1, 20191 votes

Can you not insult those who bother reading this thread?

GreenKnightJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

RELIABILITY BUFFS TO ZENITH BLADE. CAN YOU READ?

And what buffs do you propose?

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And what buffs do you propose?

Either increase the cast speed of it, or attach a extremely brief window of CC immunity upon it tagging an enemy champion.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

wow dude. Heabutt is a multitool. Its used as Zenith Blade to get onto a target and Pulverize, its also a displacement. It is vastly superior at doing Zenith Blades job AND it has a secondary option to just displace someone.

when I say Heabutt = Zenith Blade I mean they accomplish the same task, one is just better than the other.

A i Bot 0Jan 1, 20191 votes

It's funny how you end up trying to talk about one thing and everyone's bad experiences come up as their defense to your thought. They haven't even entertained their mind about any real additions to your thoughts because they like that she has this disadvantage that you bring up. I think you just alerted all the people who have read this post what to really look for if they didn't think to prior.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

Alistar and Leona are the same champions.

Shield of Daybreak = Pulverize. Except pulverize is AoE, has more range, deals more damage, and is unaffected by tenacity. Alistar has the superior Q.

Eclipse = Triumphant Roar. Just a survivability tool. Lets just call them even on this one.

Zenith Blade = Heabutt. Except Headbutt is point and click, vastly faster and as a result more usable and reliable, AND deals more damage, AND it can be used as a disengage. Alistar has the superior E.

Alistars QWE is better than Leonas entire QWER kit. Add Alistars ult into the equation and now he is just vastly superior, even tho mechanically and role wise they are the same champion.

Fine, if Alistar is going to be the more reliable, more usable of the two, why does he also deal more damage? Why would you ever play Leona over Alistar?

She needs to either deal more damage than Alistar, or receive usability buffs to her E. Otherwise there is literally no reason to ever pick Leona over Alistar.

GreenKnightJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Alistar and Leona are the same champions.

Shield of Daybreak = Pulverize. Except pulverize is AoE, has more range, deals more damage, and is unaffected by tenacity. Alistar has the superior Q.

Eclipse = Triumphant Roar. Just a survivability tool. Lets just call them even on this one.

Zenith Blade = Heabutt. Except Headbutt is point and click, vastly faster and as a result more usable and reliable, AND deals more damage, AND it can be used as a disengage. Alistar has the superior E.

Alistars QWE is better than Leonas entire QWER kit. Add Alistars ult into the equation and now he is just vastly superior, even tho mechanically and role wise they are the same champion.

Fine, if Alistar is going to be the more reliable, more usable of the two, why does he also deal more damage? Why would you ever play Leona over Alistar?

She needs to either deal more damage than Alistar, or receive usability buffs to her E. Otherwise there is literally no reason to ever pick Leona over Alistar.

Yeah, i'm done with this guy. You go on with your rant, if that's what floats your boat, but i don't care about your delusions anymore.

There is hating something just for being that thing, and then there's your feverish denial of reality.

PhearBunnyJan 1, 20191 votes

But yet you cant give me a reason to why youd ever play Leona over Alistar

ZephyrDrakeJan 1, 20191 votes

High risk... low reward... do you only take damage into consideration for it be a reward? Because Leona can lock single targets like crazy. Her reward is already pretty high. Maybe you need to learn when to go in instead of randomly charging in with little to no thought