Assassins need counterplay

FireDrizzle·Jul 1, 2017·58 votes·2,682 views

But ADC's oneshotting point and click is fine. I was litterally oneshot by a as Velkoz , the death timer was even 0.49 seconds. Legit.

94 Comments

Scary DoorJul 2, 201713 votes

{quoted}

But ADC's oneshotting point and click is fine. I was litterally oneshot by a as Velkoz , the death timer was even 0.49 seconds. Legit.

Let's see the video of someone killing you with one auto (One shotting you).

That's what's so cool about replays now, we can sort out all the bullshit that people write on the Boards. So, you say you were one shot, I call bullshit, prove me wrong.

AbsoluteSadmanJul 2, 20174 votes

With or without video its still pretty believable that a Draven could one shot a Vel. But the Draven would have to be like 3 or 4 items ahead, while vel had no hp items whatsoever.

Karn BishopJul 2, 20171 votes

My issue with crit based carrys is not getting one shot, if they get to that state late game its fine, HOWEVER it used to be that crit based champs did not really have access to lifesteal because they'd lose out on valuable crits and unfortunately thats no longer the case so were now seeing crit drain tanks that buy a single lifesteal item and have that healing massively multiplied by crits.

In short now that crit adc can safely dip into lifesteal the lifesteal crit interaction needs to be eliminated, the crit hit damage IS the reward and as such lifesteal shouldn't take into account any bonus damage granted from a crit only the base damage dealt before crit should be calculated in the heal.

Automated RivenJul 2, 20172 votes

The fuck? Used to be that crit adc's had more lifesteal because bloodthirster gave 100 ad and 25% lifesteal.

The issue was that adc's build used to be IE PD BT boots LW and banchees. Which reduced the over all damage by allot.

ExecutionerJul 2, 20171 votes

Dont forget about that defensive item. They almost always bought a defensive item.

Automated RivenJul 2, 20172 votes

That's the banchees I talked about

VasilisGreenJul 2, 20175 votes

Being oneshot is being killed with one spell rotation. Being 1-hit killed is being killed with one attack. spot the difference?

LeetriJul 2, 20171 votes

One-shot means getting killed in 1 hit in 99% of all games, hence the 1 shot.

VasilisGreenJul 3, 20171 votes

Don't take every word literally tho, those 2 words are there to disting the instant blow ups between an AA reliant champ and a caster.

LeetriJul 3, 20171 votes

We already have a word for that, it's called "instakill". It means you died really really fast and it doesn't mean something else in every other game. Instakill can be a single shot, it can be several, it can be a combo. As long as it killed you in a second or less it's an instakill.

VasilisGreenJul 3, 20171 votes

To each their own i guess...

Scary DoorJul 3, 20172 votes

Sorry, that sounds like a distinction without a difference. Breaking down the word meanings...

One: Singular, solitary,

Shot: Hit, Punch, Action, Discharging of a weapon,

So... a single hit or 'action'

So the OP says a SINGULAR HIT did their entire health bar. A spell-rotation is not "a shot" that is MULTIPLE 'shots'. Because in a spell rotation you have to land all of the spells to complete the rotation.

If I fired 20 bullets into a target and killed them I wouldn't say "yeah, I just one shot that guy".

Languages and word meanings are important, you should learn this.

VasilisGreenJul 3, 20171 votes

Yeah, the literal meanings are the same, but we have to distinguish between AA reliant champs and Casters and that's why Oneshot is used more for caster based champs, no caster can ever kill you with 1 AA, and one-hit for AA reliant champs, a Draven with sufficient AD and can kill someone with 1 single crit with his Q. that's the distinction.

BakedLotionJul 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8a3gwWs0,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-07-02T04:24:04.722+0000)

Let's see the video of someone killing you with one auto (One shotting you).

That's what's so cool about replays now, we can sort out all the bullshit that people write on the Boards. So, you say you were one shot, I call bullshit, prove me wrong.

oneshot doesn't actually mean one shot Draven can actually fire two crit+Q buffed autos with RFC/Shiv in .49 seconds

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 1, 20176 votes

so what HP item or MR items did u have as he hit you with his AP DAMAGE and TRUE DAMAGE ?

NahuiJul 1, 201733 votes

It's not about the damage types, it's about the sheer amount of it and how easily it can be dealt, which is usually what people cry about for assassins. It's just double standards where assassins can't blow up squishies without everyone pissing themselves but ADCs are allowed to because immobility and late game, which is still bullshit.

FireDrizzleJul 1, 201715 votes

Did you misread it as I was Draven oneshot by a Velkoz? Or is your post saying Vel is op so I cant complain?

ZephyrDrakeJul 1, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Did you misread it as I was Draven oneshot by a Velkoz? Or is your post saying Vel is op so I cant complain?

that is literally impossible unless he was ahead by an absurd amount while you were insanely behind

FireDrizzleJul 1, 20174 votes

He was full build but I was level 16.

Riot stop Anivia from R E and E R so she plays like a support but a lane bully adc can do this, its disgusting.

ZephyrDrakeJul 1, 20176 votes

{quoted}

He was full build but I was level 16.

Riot stop Anivia from R E and E R so she plays like a support but a lane bully adc can do this, its disgusting.

so... you are late into the game and are complaining when someone who builds NOTHING BUT DAMAGE deals a crap ton of damage to you which more than likely have little to no defensive items?

Also Anivia was changed because she literally could burst you down like nothing when she is supposed to play more like a control mage. Anivia is supposed to zone you away and whittle you down not essentially be a burst mage on steroids

FireDrizzleJul 1, 201714 votes

I'm complaing that I got a 0.5 second death timer from a drain tank rightclicking on me. "you are late into the game", He's a fucking lane bully, everyone here loses their shit over Pantheon but he will actually fall off.

It's a problem when a squishy, very immobile mage bursts, yeah. " Anivia is supposed to zone you away" ,How do you zone away a mobile adc when the Q is the slowest skillshot and they have to generously stand in the ult to actually give the E damage? You used to be able to zone them from getting near, not get killed close. Sitting around waiting to peel or chain cc is boring.

Not saying she's UP, she had a good winrate last time I looked, but then they did buff her wall cooldown and she all ready had a lot of utility.

ThefrostyvikingJul 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I´ve played Anivia a fair lot and i actually find her quite easy to play......it's all about planning ahead.

I mean, she is a control mage, so you use abilties to control the enemy movements with your abilities and they will often unwittingly walk right into your strike zone freely.

Kind of how Zyra was supposed to be played but harder and yet more rewarding.

TheMoralSupportJul 2, 20171 votes

slowest skillshot

Hi Lissandra

TheSingularityJul 3, 20173 votes

Maokai

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 1, 20176 votes

yea i misread... my bad been on a lot of pain killers and valiums lately due to neck injury lol

sometimes things are a lil off

Papa AndreiJul 2, 20174 votes

Shit man, hope it gets better soon! Miss seeing your snarky comments on all the threads!

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 2, 20171 votes

lol thought most people hated me

fyi just woke from my 4 hr power nap due to the valiums lol those fukers kick my ass

[zombie-nunu-hearts]

Karn BishopJul 2, 20172 votes

Do keep in mind that Valium is pretty much one of the most addictive drugs in existence, beating out all the illegal stuff by a mile to boot, so don't get in the mind set of "needing it" because it'll break you mentally and thats never a pretty sight.

MoldyCheese1Jul 3, 20171 votes

pro tip: dont feed draven

ChaosThiefJul 2, 20174 votes

A Draven versus I'm assuming a 0 defense vel'koz. I would assume he would chunk and/or one shot you if he got far enough ahead.

AgeOfTheMageJul 2, 20174 votes

yeah, half the time assasins aren't assasins anymore.

BLACK REALM GODJul 2, 20174 votes

assassin's counterplay - vision/teamwork/crowd control

marksman counterplay - movement speed/armor/crowd control

fighter counterplay - range/movement speed/crowd control

tank counterplay - range/movement/piercing/crowd control

mage counterplay - magic resist/crowd control

support counterplay - grievous wounds/oracle/crowd control

when in doubt use crowd control.

Charmed by AhriJul 2, 20171 votes

Leblanc used... Oh wait nvm.

BLACK REALM GODJul 2, 20171 votes

yoshi2790Jul 2, 20172 votes

A tank's counterplay isn't CC. They want to absorb it for their allies

BLACK REALM GODJul 2, 20171 votes

yeah, but if you're facing a tank and it's chasing you crowd control will allow you to chunk their hp. if you chunk their hp and dont kill them in a team fight then yes they did their job. if you however manage to kill them 1v1 or 2v1 then they've failed at their job and you successfully countered their inability to close in. tenacity of course makes all the difference between successful crowd control for tanks and wasting your ability. unfortunately it's impossible to see if your opponents have any tenacity.

i would have put %hp damage, but the bottom line is that tanks dont have to build hp to be successful and a lot of times due to the sheer amount of %hp/%max hp damage in the game it's sometimes better just to buy items like item 3193 item 3075 item 3190 and item 3102 . of course that's all relative to your playstyle and match ups

yoshi2790Jul 2, 20174 votes

Draven is just too strong. His damage is insane at every stage of the game. and item 3812 doesn't help much either

aspects1Jul 2, 20173 votes

draven is supposed to do that he snowballs super hard and was probably fed, and with statick shiv's current state, it makes sense that he does that solution: make sure he doesnt get fed, and chanves are your adc will be more useful than him lategame

ShablagooJul 3, 20171 votes

A carry champion being good early isnt very healthy, thats why ppl complain about Fiora because they say she has no weak phase in any stage in the game.

aspects1Jul 3, 20171 votes

but thats my point hes THE early game adc if you make it past that point, chances are your adc is more useful (unless your adc is lucian)

ShablagooJul 3, 20171 votes

Ya but that literally means that he has no weak phase, Draven is good late too because he is an adc, also his early game snowball potential is huge if it gets to the point of being unstoppable. So many assassins got reworked and nerfed for this same reason, so did lucian, Draven shouldnt be a standard he is just to strong and simply unreasonable.

AlfayxJul 2, 20173 votes

Well tbh assassins can't burst down as fast as adc's now, and almost every single assassin sucks, so :/

sardiniiiJul 2, 20173 votes

Its a draven, he is supposed to do high amounts of single target damage.

Cc him and then he dies and you win

Not that hard

Wait, you were playing vel, how did he get close to you even?? You can stand back and throw spells at him and have your front line tanks cc him and then burst him down becuase he is a squishy adc

LimrickJul 2, 20172 votes

Maybe Draven flashed and killed him. It's not impossible for an ADC to hit Vel'Koz, even in Challenger. Also, high single target damage doesn't mean a DPS champ should kill anyone in .5 seconds. Like Lux can kill that quickly, but then she's useless. Draven just moves to the next target and obliterates them too.

TimX24968BJul 2, 20172 votes

I've seen people do the same thing with all kinds of champs from all kinds of roles. However, the idea of "counterplay" contradicts the idea of an "assassin". assassins are supposed to "oneshot" and "kill you before you have time to react. Heck, the whole idea of Rengar was to be the "hunter" and hunt the weak targets on the enemy team. Hes supposed to have low counterplay. there isn't much counterplay when a predator finds a weak prey. that was his whole archetype and his design. but I guess that wasn't ok because "insert reason here that will get upvotes"

Variks the LoyalJul 2, 20172 votes

To be fair, Rengar is not about hunting weak enemies.

Rengar - "I seek only the strongest."

TimX24968BJul 2, 20172 votes

thats the difference between playstyle and self image

ShablagooJul 3, 20171 votes

Well if you wanna think about it logically Adc's are the strongest in the game because they have massive burst, dps, they are just squishy. Just because they are squishiest doesnt mean they are weak.

Variks the LoyalJul 3, 20171 votes

In lore standards, though, Rengar would much rather tussle with a powerful opponent like Shyvana or Renekton instead of a flimsy archer or marksman.

ShablagooJul 3, 20171 votes

But Kha6 was one of his toughest opponents, yet kha6 is as squishy as an adc champion. Durable or not he fights the strongest, adc are the carries of the game making them strong, durability doesnt matter man if they are strong he fight's them.