Off-Meta pick is not the same as a troll pick.

MrNuclearPumpkin··10 votes·5,159 views

I see often times youtube videos of people showing off new builds and roles for champions, AP Miss Fortune mid, AP Tristana top, Rumble Jungle, Yorick Jungle, Heimerdinger support, or whatever. Of course, these builds often have a disclaimer saying, "DON'T USE THIS IN RANKED!!!"

And a lot of the times I'll see a bunch of responses that are, "Omg troll pick." And sadly, sometimes there are legitimate troll picks.

But what is the difference between an off-meta pick and a troll-pick?

First thing, people will often blame the off-meta pick for the team losing, stating that it's a troll pick. Saying, "We lost because we had a Mid-Soraka." When the Soraka is going 3/5/45, with max stacks on Majais. (Never have used Soraka mid so, I'm not sure if that's possible, but I'm sure someone has done it successfully).

Sadly, people don't really know how to use the term 'troll' anymore. Often they'll just say that anything that's not considered god-tier for that role, is a troll-pick.

What exactly IS a troll? The current top definition of a troll in the Urban Dictionary is "One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument."

In this case, it would be "one who picks a champion or role with an intent of causing maximum disruption and argument in his team." For instance: Player locks in as a support but wants mid. The mid laner doesn't want to trade for support. The player is pick number 5 and says that they want mid instead. After the mid laner picks their mid-lane, the player says they don't want to support and picks a mid-lane champion and heads bot. They don't build support items. They steal CS from the ADC and since they're not supporting, they're not warding or even trying to peel for the ADC. Then, they follow the jungler around to try and steal his farm or will run down mid to steal EXP and dies to the enemy mid-laner and now no one is having fun.

This, is a troll pick. They are literally choosing something to screw over his teammates purposely in order to get them mad, to get them to argue, to get them to not enjoy their game for whatever reason. Ether because they didn't get their way, or because they... just want to watch the world burn.


Now let's go over this again with a different selection.

Player is jungle and you see them locking in Karthus. This is a very weird pick. You ask them why they're picking Karthus and they tell you that they read an article about it and they wanted to try it out. Sounds fine enough right? You know. You see something cool and fun looking, and you wanna try it out. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. People try new roles with new champs in norms all the time!

.....then you realize you're playing ranked.

They haven't tried it out before and they're using something new AND off-meta in a ranked game. You politely ask them to not use that, because chances are they will probably not get it right and you're gonna be without a jungler. Their response? "I don't really care, because this is my smurf. So it's whatever to me." You try and talk them out of it, asking them to pick an AD champion because you already have an AP top and AP mid, yet they just flat out don't care and lock in.

Of course, since they've never tried it before, chances are they ether A. Got invaded. Or B. Probably just died at red buff.

This is a troll pick. Not because he picked Karthus jungle. But the lack of any ability to care that he was most likely going to lose, didn't care because in his mind it had no effect on him win or lose. And because he knew it was a bad pick and did it anyway, just to see what happened, when they easily could have just played a bot game or a normals.

Everyone is mad. Everyone is unhappy because they pretty much lost for free, while the Karthus player just laughs it off and Kayne Shrugs to their next match.

They have been trolled.


Of course, let's try that one more time:

You're playing a normal game. You see someone asking, "Would you mind if I picked Karthus Jungle? I saw an article on it and I wanted to try it out to see how it works." Everyone agrees with it. The same thing happens. But there's a difference. No one is angry, no one is upset, because it's a norms and everyone kinda expected the result.

This was not a troll-pick. Even if everyone is angry and pissed and called it a troll-pick, it wasn't one. They asked if it was alright for them to use Karthus Jungle and they warned that they haven't really tried it before and still everyone said it was okay.


Off-meta picks exist. And some of them are effective, others not so effective. But it all depends on the player and the experience. If a person is really good with Teemo Jungle but they're absolutely horrible with Master Yi and Graves... the META (Most Effective Tactic Available) would NOT be them picking Master Yi, it would be them picking Teemo.

TL;DR - Unless it's picked especially for trolling, it's not a troll-pick.


Here's my question to you guys!

Who is your favorite off-meta pick?

Currently, my favorite is Rumble Support. :D

27 Comments

Occams Raiser3 votes

The meta is not arbitrary. Troll is anything detrimental to the goal of victory. Troll pick doesn't mean trolling to me. It means very very poor decision. Playing off meta merely adds an extra hurdle to your team getting the victory. There is nothing new under the sun. This game is math and mechanics. screwing the math means you have to be really good on mechanics. Ask yourself, AM I CHALLENGER?

Coolwhip1912 votes

Does challenjour count?

eternal ravanger3 votes

I like this. Very detailed and will certainly help me differentiate between trolls and off-meta picks. I'm not sure if this is considered off-meta or not, but I have a lot of fun and general success taking Veigar as a support. I've won quite a few games using him in the role. Yes, I've lost some games with him as well. But in some of those games I've lost, my opponents actually congratulated me on trying something new. Had one guy literally say he never would have expected Veigar to be a decent support before that game.

MrNuclearPumpkin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=eternal ravanger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TtIKhE2,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-12T22:37:46.641+0000)

I like this. Very detailed and will certainly help me differentiate between trolls and off-meta picks. I'm not sure if this is considered off-meta or not, but I have a lot of fun and general success taking Veigar as a support. I've won quite a few games using him in the role. Yes, I've lost some games with him as well. But in some of those games I've lost, my opponents actually congratulated me on trying something new. Had one guy literally say he never would have expected Veigar to be a decent support before that game.

Nice! :D Basically you just have to remember this:

Any champion can work in any role with the right person playing them correctly.

A jungle karthus can be pretty scary in the right hands. And at one point I saw Jungle Sona. Even one time Annie ADC was a clever little trick before her auto attack range got hit.

However if the person is not playing them correctly, then it'll fall apart. The Sion support could theoretically carry the bot lane harder than the Thresh if the Sion support has the correct mechanics and plays him almost perfectly. But if they just aren't using Sion to the best of his abilities, then...yeah, they're gonna die. A lot. :D

eternal ravanger1 votes

I saw a Nami Jungle once. my side got demolished by her. It was actually scary to see that tidal wave come out of our jungle. That's what kinda got me started on trying champs in roles different for them. Once one of my buddies gets thresh, I'm tempted to try so many new things

MistroTTC1 votes

I think Veigar support was actually a somewhat popular thing before his stun was given a delay.

TheNoxNox3 votes

I agree, an off-meta pick is usually discouraged as "bad" or "troll picking" but in reality, some of them work REALLY well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ9UB3yY8qA <- Example

YumScrumptious962 votes

When you play your off-meta pick, but you aren't good enough to pull off already a more challenging task because you only know how to play your pick, not your role properly, its a troll pick.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

When you play your off-meta pick, but you aren't good enough to pull off already a more challenging task because you only know how to play your pick, not your role properly, its a troll pick.

Can you elaborate? :O

YumScrumptious962 votes

Let's say someone wants to mid, but they don't get it. They are stuck as support but they still wanna play their mid lane pick, so they use them support. But they've never done that or tested it in bots, and don't know how to effectively support with this mid lane high farm/kill champion and cannot adjust. This results in your bot lane losing any strength from having a real support like a Thresh and puts your team at a huge disadvantage. This would be troll pick because you have no experience and choose it because you don't care you want your champion.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

Let's say someone wants to mid, but they don't get it. They are stuck as support but they still wanna play their mid lane pick, so they use them support. But they've never done that or tested it in bots, and don't know how to effectively support with this mid lane high farm/kill champion and cannot adjust. This results in your bot lane losing any strength from having a real support like a Thresh and puts your team at a huge disadvantage. This would be troll pick because you have no experience and choose it because you don't care you want your champion.

Good point.

I actually did bring this kind of trolling up as well.

MistroTTC2 votes

Just please at least practice clearing the jungle as an off meta jungler in customs so you don't have 10 cs 10 minutes in, that's all I want.

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

The thing about playing off-meta in ranked is that as long as you know your champion, you have an advantage to work with. Playing Yorick top as a Yorick main for 3 years is going to work very well since you know the ins and outs of the champion, and the enemy knows nothing about it at all. Playing Yorick top because MagikarpUsedFly said that it shit on Teemo that one time in a video a really long time ago will lose you the game, not because it's a bad matchup, but because you cannot play the champion or the matchup correctly.

IcyPepper2 votes

But what about doing it in ranked after practice?

People keep saying "Don't do that" or "Don't do this" when it comes to ranked, regardless of context.

Hypothetically speaking, am I expected to forgo 300 games as AP Miss Fortune and instead play AD Miss Fortune (with no experience in the ADC) role because people told me to? Granted, I don't play AP Miss Fortune but the sentiment remains.

Nausicäa 2 votes

Uhh sorry no, the picks you're describing are indeed troll picks. If you're intentionally picking something that is substantially weaker than most other picks simply for the sake of novelty you're trolling.

Ranked is the competitive mode, you're supposed to try your hardest to win, by intentionally picking something you know have a significantly lower chance of winning you're trolling. If you want to do something utterly stupid like AP MF play aram or normals, dont ruin peoples games because you feel like doing nothing different for no good reason.

TheNoxNox3 votes

^ These people are the reason we can't have nice things ^

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

MrNuclearPumpkin3 votes

{quoted}

Uhh sorry no, the picks you're describing are indeed troll picks. If you're intentionally picking something that is substantially weaker than most other picks simply for the sake of novelty you're trolling.

Ranked is the competitive mode, you're supposed to try your hardest to win, by intentionally picking something you know have a significantly lower chance of winning you're trolling. If you want to do something utterly stupid like AP MF play aram or normals, dont ruin peoples games because you feel like doing nothing different for no good reason.

You my friend are the problem.

People like you are the very reason I made this post. :P People like you, who immediately shout out troll pick at anything, because in your own mind, if it's not "The strongest champion available" it's a troll pick.

You ether, didn't read the entirety of the post, or you live in this bubble of a tier list where the only thing to win with is what's considered OP.

Everything you just posted is pretty much what I spoke about in my post. People who believe that if you're not using Ekko Top or whatever is the top meta, that you're not trying your hardest. That because a person is REALLY good at Rumble Jungle, that they're only picking it for novelty and aren't trying.

You. And that mindset. Is the very definition of a closed minded individual who will be the first in line to flame the next dude who picks Yorick jungle (when they have 500+ games with it) and will rage quit and flame throughout the entirety of the game at the Yorick.

" If you're intentionally picking something that is substantially weaker than most other picks simply for the sake of novelty you're trolling."

So that means if I don't pick Ekko tank Top (Which is the strongest top laner at the moment), I'm trolling if I pick Garen? Or I'm trolling if I'm picking literally anyone else who's NOT Ekko? Cause right now, there is no one stronger than that champ top lane.

"Ranked is the competitive mode, you're supposed to try your hardest to win"

If you actually read my post (which you clearly didn't), you'd have read this little thing that I typed: "If a person is really good with Teemo Jungle but they're absolutely horrible with Master Yi and Graves... the META (Most Effective Tactic Available) would NOT be them picking Master Yi, it would be them picking Teemo."

I explained that if this person has about 250 games playing straight Jungle Teemo and only like 5 games as Graves jungle. Guess what? Chances are, they're going to lose more trying to win with the champion that everyone is telling them to use because it's the strongest jungler, instead of what they're best at. Therefore, if they pick Graves Jungle, they're NOT trying their hardest to win. And therefore, by your logic, would be trolling, wouldn't it?

Shuriman Curator2 votes

I usually play Renekton Nasus and Shen mid. The most success i've had is with Nasus, all i do different from top is start with a dorans ring and max E first instead of q.

ThePikol2 votes

My off-meta pick? Soraka mid. I can punish Zed hard for coming to my lane. Best thing is when my bot is losing and blame me for troll even if i win my lane...

Sisters100861 votes

I don't know about these extreme situations, but I do know play something that no one plays can be a good advantage because the enemy probably don't know your cds, powerspikes, and mess up their damage calculations.

Anomander1 votes

Play who you want. Where you want. How you want.

As long as you are trying to win play it however you want. People will rage. People will report. People will.........ect.

Just remember when you play off meta that when the team starts to blame. Mute. Report. Move on.

jmaishere1 votes

well none of these are super far off meta, but they're a bit unconventional and i'll run a few of them in ranked from time to time, but support: Galio Maokai Shaco Teemo then I run ap MissFortune ap Shaco apNasus

Ratzu1 votes

I call bs, picking mf supp in ranked is trolling. It's okay to do the fun stuff in normals, but if you are playing something like mf supp in ranked you are indeed trolling. There is a fine line difference between off meta picks and trolling. By your post you sound like the guy who troll picks, gets called a troll, and then proceeds to troll cause your team call you a troll. If it is ranked it's simple if you are that bored go play normals, dont fuck over 4 other people cause you are bored. Braum mid is a troll pick. Stop trying to justify trolling and making it seem okay. It's not that the definition of trolling is lost. It's that people cant determine wether to play normal or ranked when bored.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

I call bs, picking mf supp in ranked is trolling. It's okay to do the fun stuff in normals, but if you are playing something like mf supp in ranked you are indeed trolling. There is a fine line difference between off meta picks and trolling. By your post you sound like the guy who troll picks, gets called a troll, and then proceeds to troll cause your team call you a troll. If it is ranked it's simple if you are that bored go play normals, dont fuck over 4 other people cause you are bored. Braum mid is a troll pick. Stop trying to justify trolling and making it seem okay. It's not that the definition of trolling is lost. It's that people cant determine wether to play normal or ranked when bored.

How the heck did you find this post? o.o

Best MasterYl NA1 votes

why are the pros doing it then if its trolling? u ever think morgana support is troll? no? well people like u did until pros picked it up u kno there wasnt even a support role until someone invented it? keep thinking people are trolling while they invent new roles for noob lords to play the guides you read and videos you watch on youtube on how to play a champion didnt come from thin air, people had to test them in different ways first

Røxas Storm1 votes

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MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

I know this is quite a bit late but damn you people tilt me. Stop fucking raging just cuz someone is not picking what you want them to pick. Yes there will be troll picks and shit. But picking off meta that they are good with is not a troll pick. all these people who yell troll pick at everything they don't like will always stay low ELO because they think everything in the game will stay the same and new shit wont pop up and be good. For example I lane very well top lane with Nasus. I make it look like Nasus counters Riven and Teemo. But recently i got my ass handed to me by a Velkoz top. Worst I've done with Nasus. I see way to much bullshit off meta. That destroys me. So stop fucking complaining because you just need someone to blame everything on so please stfu and play the game to win. Complaining will only hinder your performance. Sorry for late reply I was reading the post because i fully agree and i seen scrubs say TROLL! have fun people

....how did you find this post? O.o

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