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So.... the items Ornn upgrades...

SpecterVonBaren··8 votes·23,757 views

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGpyhSZVYAAPg5m.jpg

Anyone else see a real big problem here? Specifically I'm talking about four things

  1. 3 of the items are for AD champions while only one is for AP. One of those items should be removed and since BC and Triforce are far more ubiquitous I'd say remove Infinity Edge or add another AP item.

  2. Sunfire cape is one of the items and- HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I mean if it upgrades it to no longer be crap for anything but waveclear then I'm down for it but otherwise Sunfire is no longer a big ticket item for tanks, it CERTAINLY shouldn't be one of these upgradable items when AD champions get three items they'll likely ACTUALLY buy as a first item for a power spike. The armor item for tanks should be an actual big armor item like Iceborn Gauntlet or Raunduins Omen, not the item that's been turned into a farming tool.

  3. Rabadons Deathcap is the item for AP champions.... Every other item on that list is an item that is regularly bought in most games. Rabadons is not one of those items, it's the most expensive item on the list and most mages don't ever buy it unless they snowball hard or are Veigar. If you're going to only give one AP item to mages then at least make it Void Staff which a lot of mages like to buy in pretty much every game.

  4. A smaller point but the color for his upgraded items should be blue instead of red. All the items here are warm colors, many of them have a lot of orange or red on them already and so the icon is hard to see. Black Cleaver especially will be impossible to notice in game.

34 Comments

LadyRenly10 votes

Deathcap being the one AP item shows how out of touch Riot is. I haven't built deathcap in months on anyone outside of Veigar, even then I build it 3-4th item.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

Yeah I really just don't get it. I'm really not one that likes to use hyperbole or over exaggerate but with this, the buffs to AD items, and Mundo's new magic damage reduction, it's like Riot just really REALLY hates mages and wants them to go away.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

it's not a bad purchase on syndra in some games that go on for a while either, with her scalings.

Warlord Rhinark3 votes

I'm pretty sure the items are red because Ornn's theme is fire.

Paroe2 votes

item 3031 = ADCs, second item. item 3078 = Ezreal first item (hes weak and totally needs buffs, totally.) item 3001 = Anti-AP itemization third item (what? Why not spirit visage?!) item 3089 = fourth item for burst mages item 3071 = bruisers first item item 3068 = nobody buys this lolwut? Support items = support items

Honestly the AP item needs to be morellos evil book, not rabadans. The tank items need to be spirit visage and deadmans plate and the support items need to be item 3222 and item 2045

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

AP items should be Ludens, RoA, and Lich Bane.

Ludens = IE Lich Bane = Triforce. RoA = Cleaver.

Almost all mages do, or have the option to, build one of those items, if not sometimes more. Ludens is the pure damage/burst option, like how IE is the pure damage option. Lich Bane and Triforce are similar for obvious reasons, Sheen procs and movespeed. RoA and Cleaver are the tankier, more bruisery items, giving health along with damage.

Paroe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8R14RHPs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-08-08T01:05:17.602+0000)

AP items should be Ludens, RoA, and Lich Bane.

Ludens = IE Lich Bane = Triforce. RoA = Cleaver.

Almost all mages do, or have the option to, build one of those items, if not sometimes more. Ludens is the pure damage/burst option, like how IE is the pure damage option. Lich Bane and Triforce are similar for obvious reasons, Sheen procs and movespeed. RoA and Cleaver are the tankier, more bruisery items, giving health along with damage.

What about manaless AP champions? item 3151 /item 3116 = cleaver

Also, rabadans fill the same % damage increase that IE does. Ludens is more like dusk blade.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

What about manaless AP champions? item 3151 /item 3116 = cleaver

Also, rabadans fill the same % damage increase that IE does. Ludens is more like dusk blade.

Yeah except those items are far more niche. I'm putting items there that almost every AP champion can use, like how basically every AD champion can use Cleaver, Triforce, or IE. Almost every AP champion gets a mana item, and RoA and Lich Bane just fit perfectly. I put Ludens over Rabadons since Luden's is for burst mages, while Rabadons is just kinda for everyone, and if you notice all the items are kinda the core (I didn't wanna put Morellos since that's not really a full damage item). Almost every mage who doesn't get RoA or Lich Bane will get Luden's for burst.

nm10104 votes

You are very out of touch with the game if those are the comparisons you are making.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

You are very out of touch with the game if those are the comparisons you are making.

I'm not saying they're similar, I put them there because they fulfill the same roles for AP champions.

Also, because almost every AD champion gets to use at least one of those, so for AP, well almost all of them either use Lich Bane/RoA/Ludens. I was thinking of Morellos instead of Ludens, but most burst mages will take Ludens most of the times and Morellos isn't really a full damage item.

fairpaddy2 votes

These seem to want to fit in so that you would be building those items anyway every game, which is why it should not include Lich Bane and RoA all of which are very circumstantial items. I don't really know about ludens, but including that item immediately stops ap jng from buying it earlier, which is another reason i don't understand why sunfire is in there.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

These seem to want to fit in so that you would be building those items anyway every game, which is why it should not include Lich Bane and RoA all of which are very circumstantial items. I don't really know about ludens, but including that item immediately stops ap jng from buying it earlier, which is another reason i don't understand why sunfire is in there.

No but the standard Lich Bane or RoA users tend to skip Morellos, which is why I wanted items that all classes could use. A lot of AP junglers use Lich Bane or RoA (Nidalee, Gragas, Diana), while Elise has the option to build both but usually doesn't (all of them would be pretty good on her, but apparently not as good as whatever she is building).

Apex Support2 votes

Yeah i think it would be nice if there was 1 more item for mages. What I think they gonna do is increase all the signature stats of those current items. Max crit damge for ie spellblade damge for trinity % magic damge increase for abysel % ap increase for deadcap % armor steal for bc aoe damge for sunefire locked shield size I think Redemtion either heal/shielding power or the heal increase

I was first thinking what would be a nice mage item First thing that came up in me was morrela. I was thinking about this but the signature stat from morrela is healing reduction. The problem with this is that healing red. isn't the same as the other ones. The other ones over all a bonus in damge output or healing/shielding all buffing the main source of what that champ does. Healing reduction is not something you put out but something you buy to counter some one. A sultion for this would be if you give the cdr of the morrella a buf. Another item maybe ludens or liandry's

Also i saw a comment about ardent maybe replacing redemption I think this would be the better option ardent sencer is a better key item in the enchanter supports builds than redemption in my opinion.

Jonasbru3m2 votes

Yea buff the AP champs that ADCS get oneshottet faster... ADCS rly need a buff and a better Infinity Edge is a good startAshe Caitlyn Corki Draven Ezreal Graves Jhin Jinx Kalista KogMaw Lucian MissFortune Sivir Tristana Twitch Varus Vayne Xayah

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

lol no they dont what are you talking about?

HaIlMonitor1 votes

At least mages get one. Other then BC (and that is in a very small portion of games on like 2 or 3 of them) , almost no assassin build those.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

While I get you, I do see a lot of assassins build Black Cleaver for the stats and the armor reduction. Admittedly not as a first item but I see it done a lot more than I see Deathcap being built outside of RGM.

LyingOnLine1 votes

The "AD" items serve three very different itemization niches, which generally don't overlap. The difficulty with AP items is that almost every AP champion builds some variation of the same core items, so whoever's making Ornn has to work around that. Rab's is clearly the compromise, because there are almost no AP champs who wouldn't relish the chance to top their build off with it and it's not an item where the upgraded effect would be something cancerous like increased magic penetration.

Sasogwa1 votes

link?

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

https://twitter.com/Squad5lol/status/894653527976427520/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicbook.com%2Fgaming%2F2017%2F08%2F07%2Fleague-of-legends-ornn-can-upgrade-these-8-items-for-teammates%2F

Meep Man1 votes

A Riot Game Designer on Twitter said the way they chose which items they wanted to make have upgrades was a.) what are the most iconic items in the game for each role and b.) what items would Ornn usually build himself. This means that the reason there is only one AP item is because Ornn most likely doesn't have AP scalings and is an AD Tank with mixed damage. Also, most notably is that Rabadon's is apparently the most gold efficient of all the upgrades, meaning it's 1000 golds worth of gold efficient AP stats... which is a little scary in my mind.

Woodp3cker1 votes

I heard this too, they said while they are all gold efficent for their upgrade cost it differs from item to item with deathcap having the best gold efficancy

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

While i see your point and im not against adding another AP item (maybe ROD or Ludens?) saying black cleaver, IE and trinity all cater to the same champs is wrong. Obviously, 90% of adc dont build black cleaver OR trinity. On the other hand, most bruisers dont build Trinity AND black cleaver.

It's supposed to be a niche to each catagory of champs, and there are way more AD catagories than AP which is why they get more items.

Bloodhands FIN1 votes

If I'm correct there hasn't been any info on what the Upgrades do, so It might aswell make Deathcap quite strong with the upgrade, making it a must buy for the games where there is an Ornn(for ap champs ofc).

Also quite rarely does one build Trinity, Bc and IE (or any combination of these) in the same game, they all belong to their own builds, so I feel like that these selections from riot are quite nicely selected to make sure that all kinds of ad champs have an item they would like to get.

And of course Sunfire, it might aswell be upgraded to be more useful on fights, so nothing much to say about that

KylerEzraStar1 votes

Actually, Abyssal mask is effectively an AP item, as it increases magic Damage by 10%. As far as the ad item to remove, if you wanted it to be even, it should absolutely not be IE, that's the ADC item.

Though I would like to point out, and I agree with their choice; -Ad damage (I.E.) -ad bruser (T-Force) -AP Bruser (Abyssal) -AP damage (Deathcap) -ad tank (Black Cleaver) -ambiguous tank(Sunfire) (they could have and should have done something like Iceborn, Deadman's, or Randuin's) -Enchanter Support -Tank Support.

As far as I'm concerned, it's AP tank that's getting hosed in options, not mages, and almost every AP tank would build Abyssal mask anyway.

FzBlade1 votes

So first of all 3 AD-Items: Black Cleaver is built by Bruisers, Trinity Force by special champs like Ezreal or Irelia who mostly dont build any of the other items. And Inf_Edge is the standard adc item so it is definetly needed for Adc to be able to upgrad something 2. Sunfire Cape: Yeah it is pretty shitty atm but I think with Ornns upgrade it will definetly be worth it for Tanks 3. Rabadons is only a late game item atm maybe 4 or 5 item noone builds it earlier but thats totally fine. I mean you dont wanna upgrade these items before late game most of the time either way 4. Well I guess you are right :D

LT Weirdo1 votes

"The armor item for tanks should be an actual big armor item like Iceborn Gauntlet"

yous a stupid bitch, if youre gonna rant about items then please dont be an ignorant fuck about items? plus have you ever considerd that the DEVELOPERS have more info about the future than they give you or me?

Variks the Loyal1 votes

Those 3 AD items are for really different champions, though.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Morrellos/Liandries/Void would of been a much better options since they are what is getting built more often then not, my vote would of been Morellos tbh.

Side note---Have they even released what the items do? I can't find info on them anywhere.

Champion Skin1 votes

item 3135 pretty much fills the same space as item 3089 They both just makes you deal more damage however item 3135 is usually always better (because of it being cheaper and magic pen also work with base damage unlike the %AP increase which only increase the damage you gain from AP)

Though hey item 3374 4800 gold for 1 item at least makes it very slot efficient (though games rarely go long enough for people to get full build to begin with so not like that's very useful most of the time)

JoeTheLlama1 votes

If you get rid of IE then the entire adc role has nothing to upgrade for Ornn unless you are Ezreal item 3078

Ciredrum1 votes

My problem is that none of the items are assassin items. An upgraded youmuu's ghostblade or dusk blade would be great.

4ssec931 votes

I think you dont get the point: rito wants to make rabadons be bought much more now, thats why they chose rabadons deathcrown as item to be purchased as mage. with the ad items you dont get the other point: they are pretty much for different kind of ad champs and you still cant purchase more than one of these. The only problem is that they didnt add a lethality item, with expanation, i guess, they want to buff the crit builds again, e.g. with this item. i mean that kinda nobody uses crit mf anymore, but with Molten Edge as upgraded form, it becomes strong again.

Trinity Fusion, is made for some of the assassins, and for some i'd call it "old assassins" that are now full tanks: Irelia and poppy (those ad poppy's that dont get the point that her remake destroyed that) would always have to buy Trinity Fusion, as well as a Darius should take Obsidian Cleaver instead of those other ad items. Rito had to buff something like every single Champ, and even though you wouldnt buy those unbuffed items on some champs, it doesnt mean that they would not be able to buff your actual build a lot.

Supporter have the propably biggest advantage with Salvation i think, what is caused by its seperated cooldown on its active. Salvation and Redemption now can be used as double heal with a maximum heal potential of around 2.8k life, on ONE supp. There are a lot Champs that can make use of this item, like a Taric, that is not played much, like ivern who suddenly has a huge amount of use and i think that it'll be one of the core reasons why to play ornn in LCS, as well as Ornn is strong against a lot meta champs. And even when you are not a heal champ, the Circlette of Iron Solari is the one item that has the propably biggest use, you can imagine for those supps in lategame, with its buffed active.

Iceborn Gauntlet on Ornn would've been a great idea, but you shouldnt forget that it would buff Ornn himself a bit too much: with a gauntlet as first full item on Ornn, you win pretty much every single game right now. Even though its not a recommended item. for me its already the core item for Ornn and gives him the potential not just to farm well, but to trade against strong bruisers or carries like darius or Zyra (as i made the experience last game^^) e.g.

As you said on your own, Sunfire has turned into a farming tool for tanks, with being upgraded it gets back its old use as armor item, that can be bought instead of those essential items like randuins, and that will empower those players, that are good in trading, but bad in farming.

The colour is a little "mistake", but it looks nice^^

As i read, some did say, that those Ap-Tanks, that dont need much mana like Rumble for example, are not supported by ornns items, but i'd say that rabadons deathcrown for rumble is always a good choice as well as infernal mask for every ap tank, nevertheless the mana part loses its useful part in that kit.

Hope you are understanding, what i wanna tell you: the meta got pretty much destroyed by ornn, and i like that <3

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Do I have to delete this thread? Why do I still have people replying to a thread that's over 3 weeks old with no discussions going on in it?

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