getting bashes because support takes exhaust instead of the Heal

Hochelaga·Oct 10, 2017·12 votes·1,231 views

So since when supports ''CAN'T'' take exhaust because it's the ''worst sumonner spell right now'' says one player?

Sometime I swear people are stuck with pro plays and whenever a player doesn't follow them, well they get bashed on.

Another thing that annoys me? Starting spellthief edge on Karma support is bad because she's ''Supposed'' to start with ancien coin. Like, seriously? I've played over 3000 games with Karma, don't tell me what item I'm supposed to buy. I think I'm good enough to judge on that.

31 Comments

Devilreaper XIIIOct 10, 20174 votes

exhaust is the most powerfull summoner spell O,O THEY DO 40% LESS DAMAGE + SLOW DOWN for 2,5 seconds <-------- no shout just for clarification^^

ancient coin is convenient, its gold income + mana, spellthief has less gold income since you need to poke, but many forget lots of supports have a shield, lulu, blitz, janna, leona, morgana, karma, rakan, braum etc. and poking is risky.

i always go exhaust and ancient coin, and eventually eye of oasis.

Tails9016Oct 10, 20171 votes

If the enemy has a Yasuo and you're in a low elo game, not taking exhasut is pretty much trolling since no one seems to know how to counter him in bronze.

5000000000000000Oct 10, 20172 votes

To be fair, no one also knows how to play Yasuo, though.

StairCasexdOct 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, no one also knows how to play Yasuo, though.

"Let's wind wall syndras auto attacks"

5000000000000000Oct 11, 20172 votes

Gotta save that passive shield

BigBellBruteOct 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, no one also knows how to play Yasuo, though.

OOOO. Nice wind wall against Garen there Yas.

LordGeovanniOct 11, 20171 votes

Spell theif is supposed to have less gold income because coin support have to get into a dangerous position in lane to get gold or mana it is just not properly punished in solo que so its powerful. also spell theifs edge line adds damage to your spells in addition to your ap scaling

MarvelOtterOct 10, 20172 votes

Theyre kind of right, but still should be quiet. tilting youre support is the stupidest reason to lose lane.

exhaust: i use it as well, so do most other people, really though most of the other main spells have better effects.

ancient coin vs spell thief: spell thief is situationally better. for example a morg with spellthiefs is amazing, she procs it more safely than any other champ. but with karma or most other ap supports: coin is much safer and much better also: you dont have to upgrade it to increase gold income. this lets a player rush ardent and massively boost their usefulness.

also, if youve been using spellthiefs out of habit:usually its pretty good, but with as good as coin/ardent start is now, you should consider it.

KaeblenOct 10, 20171 votes

tilting youre support is the stupidest reason to lose lane.

why is it that more people don't understand this??

VFD CalamitesOct 11, 20171 votes

honestly... supports should do their job and stfu...

if they dont think about items they should accept when the adc says "hey what about mikaels" (just as example).

otherwise they deserved to be flamed honestly.

most good supporter arent in gold or below, they are plat or diamond so...

KaeblenOct 11, 20171 votes

#Thankyou For Your Reply! I now know why some people do not understand that:

tilting you're support is the stupidest reason to lose lane.

honestly, the answer is SO obvious, I'm not sure how it escaped me previously ######something about faith in humanity...

ÇhåryzårdOct 13, 20172 votes

The way I see it is this.

As the support I'm not your bitch, I'm going to play how I normally play and build what I feel like I need to build.

The adc is supposed to worry about farming and not dying. Focus on your job and let me do mine.

Ariel the CruelOct 10, 20171 votes

Do people even understand the thinking behind ADC barrier / Support Heal?

KaeblenOct 10, 20171 votes

people telling you what champion to play, or summoner spells to pick...

yeah, I sometimes wish that were pan worthy...

Rathar DashingOct 10, 20171 votes

As a support, I don't like taking exhaust unless we're up against a Yasuo/Jhin who I can shut down before he one-shots us, mostly because I feel that heal gives us more room to get aggressive and more lane sustain.

As an ADC, I don't like it when my support takes exhaust because they usually use it when I'm already about to get the kill, or on someone else that doesn't even need to be exhausted.

Overall, I think both have their place, and it mostly depends on your timing and skill, and playstyle.

As for Coin VS. Spellthief's, I'm of the camp that says they're both balanced (especially with the recent patch) so they fit your playstyle. Take Coin if you want more mana and gold, and want to play passively, and take Spellthief's if you want more poke damage and aggression in lane.

Devilreaper XIIIOct 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8OjyKBZ8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-10T22:12:29.594+0000)

As a support, I don't like taking exhaust unless we're up against a Yasuo/Jhin who I can shut down before he one-shots us, mostly because I feel that heal gives us more room to get aggressive and more lane sustain.

As an ADC, I don't like it when my support takes exhaust because they usually use it when I'm already about to get the kill, or on someone else that doesn't even need to be exhausted.

Overall, I think both have their place, and it mostly depends on your timing and skill, and playstyle.

As for Coin VS. Spellthief's, I'm of the camp that says they're both balanced (especially with the recent patch) so they fit your playstyle. Take Coin if you want more mana and gold, and want to play passively, and take Spellthief's if you want more poke damage and aggression in lane.

exhaust is useless againts draven though .-. i exhausted a draven and he still one shotted me O.o talk about overloaded :( 40% less damage ineffective >

ÇhåryzårdOct 13, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8OjyKBZ8,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-10-12T15:35:29.260+0000)

exhaust is useless againts draven though .-. i exhausted a draven and he still one shotted me O.o talk about overloaded :( 40% less damage ineffective >

He must have been fed then because Draven is not doing well right now...thats why he's getting preseason buffs.

Devilreaper XIIIOct 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

He must have been fed then because Draven is not doing well right now...thats why he's getting preseason buffs.

thats not an excuse, i exhausted many fed champions and they certainly did not oneshot anyone after that....

and are you mad????? draven is still nr 1 marksman/adc as is -.- the sheer damage is insane, from early to late, i played together with someone whom never played draven before, in ranked non the less, he mentioned this ingame..., and guess what? HE OWNED THEM..... at first i thought we were going to lose... shows how much draven needs to be nerfed or reworked.

ÇhåryzårdOct 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8OjyKBZ8,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-14T08:53:29.021+0000)

thats not an excuse, i exhausted many fed champions and they certainly did not oneshot anyone after that....

and are you mad????? draven is still nr 1 marksman/adc as is -.- the sheer damage is insane, from early to late, i played together with someone whom never played draven before, in ranked non the less, he mentioned this ingame..., and guess what? HE OWNED THEM..... at first i thought we were going to lose... shows how much draven needs to be nerfed or reworked.

What do you mean "are you mad???"

What?

Exhaust isn't going to stop a champion from "oneshotting" you if they're fed enough (which I still think is an exaggeration), and I have yet a Draven actually completely one shot someone. Plus, not sure what game you're talking about but if he brought cleanse (which seems to be getting more popular) then well your exhaust doesn't matter.

His pick rate right now is pretty low and his winrate is at 50%...which is...where it should be?

Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Vayne, Twitch are all higher than him right now, higher than 50%. Not sure where you got your stats from but seeing as you actually didn't provide any I'm just gonna assume you didn't bother checking in the first place.

Devilreaper XIIIOct 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What do you mean "are you mad???"

What?

you stated draven isn't doing well... you are obviously mad XD idk how na players play, but i am starting to realize why na keeps losing in tournaments XD

Exhaust isn't going to stop a champion from "oneshotting" you if they're fed enough (which I still think is an exaggeration), and I have yet a Draven actually completely one shot someone. Plus, not sure what game you're talking about but if he brought cleanse (which seems to be getting more popular) then well your exhaust doesn't matter.

its not an exaggeration at all.... you do realize exhaust lowers the damage done by 40% thats quite alot. he didn't have cleanse but heal. and yes it will stop them from oneshotting if they do 40% less damage thats only 60% damage they do than normal.... draven just need a nerf.

His pick rate right now is pretty low and his winrate is at 50%...which is...where it should be?

Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Vayne, Twitch are all higher than him right now, higher than 50%. Not sure where you got your stats from but seeing as you actually didn't provide any I'm just gonna assume you didn't bother checking in the first place.

why does everyone always bring up winrates O.o? they mean absolutely nothing at all... its flawed math. for all i care he has 100% winrate or 0% winrate, these stats are meaningless.... i can explain why again, but im getting tired of it frankly to explain why these stats are BS the only stats to go by are post match stat screens. i get by that by experience when facing these champions....

the whole reason these winrates are higher is because draven isn't played as much -.- there i went and explained a bit as to why these winrates/stats are BS anyways.

ÇhåryzårdOct 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8OjyKBZ8,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-15T08:53:07.435+0000)

you stated draven isn't doing well... you are obviously mad XD idk how na players play, but i am starting to realize why na keeps losing in tournaments XD

its not an exaggeration at all.... you do realize exhaust lowers the damage done by 40% thats quite alot. he didn't have cleanse but heal. and yes it will stop them from oneshotting if they do 40% less damage thats only 60% damage they do than normal.... draven just need a nerf.

why does everyone always bring up winrates O.o? they mean absolutely nothing at all... its flawed math. for all i care he has 100% winrate or 0% winrate, these stats are meaningless.... i can explain why again, but im getting tired of it frankly to explain why these stats are BS the only stats to go by are post match stat screens. i get by that by experience when facing these champions....

the whole reason these winrates are higher is because draven isn't played as much -.- there i went and explained a bit as to why these winrates/stats are BS anyways.

"you stated draven isnt doing well so you must be mad"

Those have....absolutely nothing to do with each other. I'm a support main, I could care less if Draven is doing well or not. I've never played him outside of bot games and ARAM. I'm just pointing out that since his nerfs he has, in fact, not been doing so well. Maybe this idea that anyone who disagrees with you must be "mad" is part of your issue.

Winrates aren't flawed math and actually do bring insight into how a champion is doing. For example, if a champion is at a 40% winrate, it means that they aren't doing so well. They are losing most of their games, that isn't just coincidence, there's a reason for that. A winrate of let's say 60% means the champion is winning most of their games and once again, that isn't just coincidence. Generally most champs stay around 50% but if there is a large deviation from that then something is definitely wrong.

With millions of people playing league of legends the amount of games a champ gets really does not matter because they're still used in thousands of game each day anyways, the number never dips low enough to create that big of a "# of games played" flaw in the winrate. To be almost exact, as of this year, 27 million people play league. Whether a champ gets 10,000 games or 100,000 games a day it won't make such a huge difference that the winrate isn't somewhat accurate.

Devilreaper XIIIOct 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

"you stated draven isnt doing well so you must be mad"

Those have....absolutely nothing to do with each other. I'm a support main, I could care less if Draven is doing well or not. I've never played him outside of bot games and ARAM. I'm just pointing out that since his nerfs he has, in fact, not been doing so well. Maybe this idea that anyone who disagrees with you must be "mad" is part of your issue.

Winrates aren't flawed math and actually do bring insight into how a champion is doing. For example, if a champion is at a 40% winrate, it means that they aren't doing so well. They are losing most of their games, that isn't just coincidence, there's a reason for that. A winrate of let's say 60% means the champion is winning most of their games and once again, that isn't just coincidence. Generally most champs stay around 50% but if there is a large deviation from that then something is definitely wrong.

With millions of people playing league of legends the amount of games a champ gets really does not matter because they're still used in thousands of game each day anyways, the number never dips low enough to create that big of a "# of games played" flaw in the winrate. To be almost exact, as of this year, 27 million people play league. Whether a champ gets 10,000 games or 100,000 games a day it won't make such a huge difference that the winrate isn't somewhat accurate.

''that the winrate isn't somewhat accurate.''

1: thats an understatement.... it actually DOES matter, the whole reason these winrates are nonsense, is because there are too many factors not being eliminated, they talk about stats on a specific champion, however one major problem already is that its a team game..... so you can throw those winrates through the window..... those winrates are based on TEAM wins not solo wins....

2: you don't know HOW they won... and thats important as well.... if they win because opponents are lower ranked or are trolling or someone went afk or got an error or a power outage or simply a dc it affects the rates.

3: it is based on MANY players and not just 1 player, everyone performs differently.

4: winrates can be high or low depending on WHO plays these champions as well, since not everyone is good with every champion, so if the champion is not popular the winrates might be high or low depending on whether low ranked or higher ranked players play that champion. that being said if the champion is popular you get a wider range of players playing the champion. so if the lower ranks screw up the higher ranks might even it out and what do you get? 50%! duh.....

5: win by sur or win by nexus kill? win due to performance or luck?

6: premade or solo? even riot stated premades seem to perform better, again a factor that affects winrates heavily, since premades and solo get matches againts eachother.

just for some more clarification lets say you won 500 matches and lost 450 matches, thats 950 matches you played in total, which means you have a winrate of 500/950 x 100 = 52% winrate, and what does this tell us???? NOTHING! NADA! why? because it doesn't tell us WHY or HOW you won or lost!

so the conclusion is???? THESE WINRATES ARE MEANINGLESS! all it tells is, is that you win or lose more than you lose or win..... but no reason as to why or how.

Athenes LuluOct 11, 20171 votes

Or when you don't rush Ardent Censer before getting boots and sightstone, and people flame you for it.

It's a similar concept.

Worst Kench NAOct 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8OjyKBZ8,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-11T01:22:25.003+0000)

Or when you don't rush Ardent Censer before getting boots and sightstone, and people flame you for it.

It's a similar concept.

No one in low elo usually rushes Censer, but I had a game like this recently where the enemy Sona rushed Censer before literally anything else. I've only played for two years and don't really play anywhere else but support so I may be wrong on this, but the fact that supports have to forego WARDS for a fucking passive item is ridiculous and the dumbest meta I've ever seen. I wouldn't mind if Ardent went the way of Zephyr and was completely deleted at this point.

Need Gold 4 TentOct 11, 20171 votes

Complaining about exhaust? Wait till they see how I take ignite every game.

LordGeovanniOct 11, 20171 votes

Proplayers are why surrenders shot up 600% after season 5

BigBellBruteOct 11, 20171 votes

With me it depends on the support. If I'm playing a trailing support, there's no way I take exhaust. Better for the ADC to take that and give me the heal. .If I'm taking a bully support yeah, I'm probably going to be taking the exhaust. because I'm probably forward. Also if I'm taking a support that likes to mix it up, I'm going to be taking spellthief's. If I'm on a more passive one, I'm going with the gold item.

Starcraft243verOct 11, 20171 votes

Like, seriously? I've played over 3000 games with Karma, don't tell me what item I'm supposed to buy. I think I'm good enough to judge on that.

The game changes fast, your 3000 games of experience with Karma is worth nothing compared to your mate who just saw a LCS game and learnt the whole meta.

Jokes aside :

I think I'm good enough to judge on that.

Sounds like you are not open to new knowledge nor that you have any kind of adaptability skills.

The whole "I'm going to buy this because that's what I've done my last 3000 games", is kinda stupid. There has been changes, nerfs, up, meta shifts. If someone propose you a new build, you are free to dismiss him, but at least, at the end of the game, take some time to wonder if it was a stupid idea, if it seems viable, start experimenting with it, training a bit, notice the cons and pros of this new build/strategy, and if it was truly stupid, dismiss it. If it was actually good, at it to your arsenal.

That's actually how you improve.

5000000000000000Oct 11, 20171 votes

I saw it as "I know how Karma works, and the advantages/disadvantages of these starting items. In this situation, Spellthief's start is better."

HochelagaOct 13, 20172 votes

I don't have to watch LCS to know what is good and and what is bad. You learn from YOUR playstyle and not some pro plays.

Do you know how much time 3000 games of Karma is ? I tried so many build with her since season 2. I basically play her in every patches so Nerfs and buffs are immediately tested.

I TRIED Heal while playing support. It doesn't fit my playstyle, I also find it less effective. I sometime even see ADC waste their Barrier because they think that they have heal instead of barrier.

Have you ever played against a fed champion? Now tell me if you think that a 40% dmg reduction AND 30% slow is less superior than a 250 HP heal and a 30% bonus movespeed for 1 second.

Karma also happens to have a shield that provides a bonus movespeed. So why get heal? You can also get Locket with Karma.

I also adapt my playstyle accordingly to my adc. If he likes to play aggresive, i'll play aggressive. But if he likes to stay near the turret, then i'll do it too.

I improve everyday if you want my opinion. But people saying that heal/barrier is mandatory or else you suck are NOT open to new knowledge and refuse to accept a different point of view.

Leaf on BushOct 14, 20171 votes

Exhaust is still really good to counter burst and 1 shot combos, especially from assassins or champions like Shyvana. Actually there is no better spell for that.

Barrier on ADC + Heal on support also requires the ADC to tank in certain scenarios. As a matter of fact many ADC's in soloQ would just run away and leave their support behind, evcen though you could turn a fight around. So if you can't trust your ADC, exhaust is better too.

Against Grievous Wound items (or ignite) it might even be better to have exhaust + barrier.