ATTN: All those who would attempt to silence people speaking out against horrible reworks

yellowbricks·12/9/2014, 3:03:41 AM·93 votes·7,434 views

A wiser man than I wrote a poem that I've copied the format of and applied to this rework situation:

First they came for Karma, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Karma main.

Then they came for Skarner, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Skarner main.

Then they came for Cassiopeia, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Cass main.

Then they came for my champ—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Just something to think about. If you really want riot to go down their hit list mindlessly demolishing what made older champs fun, then go ahead and sling mud, you'll only hurt yourself in the end.

252 Comments

A Slime Appears12/9/2014, 5:27:57 AM50 votes

Or you can main Lee Sin and they'll never come for you :^)

FyreNinja12/9/2014, 3:11:12 AM37 votes

That was a WW2 quote regarding the Nazis for those who do not get it.

When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

They say history tends to repeat itself -- True Dat

CalciferHowel12/9/2014, 5:13:06 AM23 votes

tfw you like Karma and Skarner reworks.

yellowbricks12/9/2014, 3:55:30 AM20 votes

To those who are making childish remarks (shut up, deal with it, etc), just remember your words when your champ gets bent and no one is left to speak for you. To everyone else, you guys are good people, keep on keepin on.

Wheatloaf12/9/2014, 3:31:40 AM18 votes

I'd just like everybody to stop sounding so angry with each other. Even if you are actually that pissed, it gets in the way of proper discussion when you wear it on your sleeves.

SmokingPuffin12/9/2014, 3:28:56 AM17 votes

Turns out, I'm really pleased with new Karma and new Skarner. The first Skarner rework sucked, but adding the stun passive makes him feel fannnntastic. Also he loves the new jungle.

I expect to eventually be pleased with new Cass, although certainly she sucks right now.

Vaypoure12/9/2014, 5:10:29 AM9 votes

Only re-work of a champ that I played and now dislike is Sona.

She may be stronger now, but I still don't like her new kit.

slippykitten12/9/2014, 5:07:55 PM8 votes

You don't get it. Diversity and complexity in design and playstyles are difficult to balance. Riot is notorious for having a hard time balancing, despite having an already simplified moba game. Therefore they have to either nerf anything different into the ground so it isnt op, or rework champs into ultra simplified versions of themselves that perform identically to every other champ in their class.

They don't get it, and unfortunately their success has given them a false arrogance that they know whats best, so i don't see it changing.

yellowbricks12/9/2014, 11:10:04 PM8 votes

Would you guys kindly tell me where I said the word nazis? Because I can't see it anywhere. Yes, the poem was originally about nazis, but I tweaked it to apply to this situation, which is not about nazis. If you think about nazis when reading my post, that's on you.

Just because the source material was about that doesn't mean I'm comparing riot to nazis, I just like the message it sends to people: Sure, you can be apathetic about something because it doesn't apply to you, but don't be surprised when no one cares when you're the one getting the short end of the stick.

Basically what I'm saying is if enough of these garbage reworks get eaten up by people who don't care, the people who do care will leave the game in droves, leaving those who don't to fend for themselves when riot continues neutering champions and deleting play styles because "game health" (which I'm guessing is the new buzzword nowadays, see it everywhere), and the passionate ones won't be discussing and trying to get riot to fix things.

Azaer12/9/2014, 3:28:38 AM7 votes

I was a Karma and Skarner main :(

WE WILL FIGHT

BastionKross12/9/2014, 6:00:39 PM7 votes

I'm right with you Cass mains, and you have my full support.

I didn't play Cass outside of when she was on free week, but after seeing the mess Stashu has made of your champion, it sends chills of fear down my spine imagining him getting his fingers all over a champion I do play. You guys deserved better.

Lajinn512/9/2014, 5:21:41 AM6 votes

Rito already broke my will when they broke my Olaf Olaf

Saianna12/9/2014, 3:53:47 AM6 votes

Why everyone keeps on forgetting Evelynn. She also was reworked. In a uber bad way.

STOP IGNORING HER! Or she'll come and kill you! (nah j/k. She can't kill, only tank stuff)

And old Garen, where his rework(nerf) removed him from competitive scene for more than year..

kunkudunk12/9/2014, 7:21:19 PM6 votes

This is how I have felt regarding orianna. She is one of my favorite champs but people complain off and on that she is op. I fear her being changed since she is one of the only champs that has mechanics like hers and she is very fun.

EffectFX12/9/2014, 3:22:00 AM6 votes

Some champions need reworks, deal with it.

Karakazan12/9/2014, 9:55:20 AM6 votes

I think Lee Sin mains defended their champ gloriously, yet their stasus quo received an underhanded blow in the form of new jungle.

ZT Xperimentor12/9/2014, 8:27:08 AM5 votes

Lies, there have always been a significant amount of PBE players that disliked reworks that changed a champion's already functional and balanced kit mechanics. Riot changes them anyway and tries to sugar coat it in the following patch. I'd rather they make new champs with such different skill sets instead of ruining the old ones.

DollaMenunaire12/9/2014, 11:46:44 PM5 votes

Conceptually, I see why they do the reworks

The problem is in actuality, the champs we'd all like to see viable just end up weak while the champs we'd like to see gutted end up with the same problems

yellowbricks12/10/2014, 5:48:03 PM5 votes

I said before in this thread that if you think Nazis while reading this thread, that's on you. Elphrihaim has it right, I chose the quote for the powerful message, not because "lol rito is Hitler" like some think. I know the origin of the poem, it's unfortunate, but the words can ring true in many situations without immediately being godwins law.

It Is I Emoto12/9/2014, 10:12:49 AM4 votes

They reworked Sona.. Yet, among all the threads here that suggest to change Sonas current spells, nothing happened on fearless, side :/

Starlighte12/10/2014, 8:48:45 PM4 votes

And how will one hurt themselves when these designers have often been given actionable as well as emotional and visceral responses to their reworks?

Karma's was a clusterfuck that was on the backburner for years, and had what, 3 separate designers work on in?

Skarner's initial rework was trash, but Scruffy's followup work with the community was not only highly regarded but did a LOT to restore the community's faith in him and his goal with Skarner.

Stashu's initial rework was worse than Scruffy's, and for some reason I get the feeling that Scruffy is in the background trying to help Stashu work this out with the community, but unlike Scruffy during the Skarner rework Stashu is unwilling or doesn't care to work with the Cass players on what they really want on the rework, which is a reworked rework passive and a focus on poison, not machine-gunning.

Xelnath and Xerath did well because there was borderline EXCESSIVE communication upfront about the rework, and steps weren't taken until they were brought infront of the community and tested extensively.

Eve's rework was actually pretty fantastic. The overall stealth rework was adequate in what it needed to accomplish, and Eve was a terror post-rework for quite some time until they had to nerf her ult because Ult+DFG mid lane eve was broken as shit.

Katarina rework, though initially poorly received, turned out to put her in a better position, but that was at the beginning of what we can associate to be a modern reworked champion.

Yi's rework was good, low-scope and got rid of that toxic as fuck AP Yi that had 0 interaction.

All-in-all Riot has actually been really good with reworks. Their previous two have been bad, with overzealous changes that entirely change the way a champion flows in game. (Karma included, she just simply wasn't chronological with Skarner/Cass)

Simply put, Riot NEEDS to know that the current "radical redesign" is not something the community is looking for. They cannot make an essentially new champion, and rehash the name/lore/character. If they want to try a late-game-hyper-carry-machine-gun-mage (pewpew pewpew) then they should do it on a NEW kit, not an existing kit on an OLD mage.

We should speak out and we should be honest, Riot doesn't need sugarcoated feedback because that does nothing for anyone except makes them feel good. And Cass mains aren't in the business of making Stashu feel good right now, because in their minds, their is NOTHING to feel good about with the rework.