"Spellvamp is Overpowered, so lets remove it and replace it with a physical damage only version"

Unreformed Shaco··8 votes·933 views

"Mages healing from damage is too strong, so let's remove spellvamp itemization. Instead, you now get an item that heals you for UP TO 0.0125% of your max hp each time you cast one of your 4 skills.. "

"Lifesteal is perfectly justified and attached to all high damage items, also has no cooldown or limit. You get to heal for 300, 1-2 times a second, and then gain a shield for damage you would have healed."

Let's call it balanced.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MAW!_ (jokes aside I won't mention that disgustingly absurd item)_

"We will also introduce an item that let's you heal off your spell damage.*"

*Sorry mages, we know you are the primary spellcasters that rely entirely on spell damage, but it only heals from physical damage. Better luck next time.

EDIT: For those missing the clear sarcasm thoughtout, I am in favor of spellvamp, not buffing lifesteal.

EDIT2: The heal from RoA is just a slap in the face.

59 Comments

ThePikol7 votes

Spellvamp was removed because it was too good on Vlad and too garbage on rest of Mages

Unreformed Shaco3 votes

So instead of addressing that issue, let's just fuck over everyone else.

Glory974 votes

What do you suggest? Bringing back spellvamp so that only vlad will buy spellvamp, and all other mages won't cause they don't need it anyways?

Unreformed Shaco2 votes

There was times when it would be useful, maybe not built 100% of the time, but it had its uses.

Ralanr2 votes

Except it was always a must buy on Vladimir which put his balance and the balance of the stat out of whack.

Handy Sandy 1 votes

What do you suggest? Bringing back spellvamp so that only vlad will buy spellvamp, and all other mages won't cause they don't need it anyways?

I think a lot will, Anivia tends to stick around after her QRE combo since it doesn't completely 100-0 so she waits for her ult, Cassiopeia may use it since she's already an AP ADC, Heimerdinger Karthus Azir are all DPS that will really benefit from it, Zyra's also gonna use it because of her plants. Taliyah Ahri More healing when kiting...Yea I can see this being a bit OP.

Unreformed Shaco4 votes

Right, cause people like Lucian and Kalista don't heal while kiting... but that's perfectly fine.

Durzaka4 votes

You sound like you werent around for when spellvamp was actually a thing.

Besides Taliyah (and maybe Azir, its been a while) who werent out yet, not one of those champions want spell vamp.

Spell vamp had reduced effectiveness on AoE skills, which that alone made it undesireable on a majority of champions (like karthus, or Anivia in your example).

On top of that, Vlad was so disgustingly broken when spell vamp was strong, it wasnt funny.

There is very good reason that Spell Vamp was removed, but Lifesteal was kept.

Lifesteal is homogenized. With the exception of Death Dance (which some will argue is or isnt a problem item), Lifesteal works on your auto attacks. Which is universal across the entire game (minus range differences). Its a common thing everyone has. If Lifesteal is too strong, it can be adjusted for everyone, rather than for one or 2 champions.

Spell Vamp is not homogenized. Every mage has a difference collection of abilities that interact with Spell vamp. This results in a massive disparity oh its effectiveness, and the only true way to make it balanced like Lifesteal would be to give every spell in the game (or at the very least, groups of different types of spells) different % effectiveness of Vamp. This of course results in a large amount of mostly hidden information that Riot doesnt want to put into the game.

On top of all of that, Mages (with some exceptions obviously) tend to put out all of their damage at once. This results in a massive burst of healing (or not healing, if their combo misses), rather than the "sustained burst" (lol) that Marksmen or AD champions have with Lifesteal.

DrCyanide1 votes

Right now, it's not uncommon to see a champion with lifesteal back off for a few seconds to attack some minions or jungle camps, then come back full health (or at least healthier). What if we copied only that portion and brought it back into the game for AP champions?

It would require being out of combat with champions for X seconds, then Y % of your damage dealt to minions/monsters heals you (potentially up to a cap per spell). That won't be over the top on burst mages, it shouldn't be overbearing on Vlad, it wouldn't help in a 1v1 with a sustained damage champion, but it would help AP champions stay with their team when sieging and being poked down.

The Fuzzy 0ne2 votes

You forgot Swain :^) It was also an integral part of akali's kit at the time and a big part of what made morg mid a great and viable pick. Spellvamp also still exists in the form of runes (while they last) and as Morg's passive also in the red mastery tree

Glory973 votes

Spellvamp was not overpowered. Spellvamp was just weird as a stat. Most mages dont need it, because they are rather burst oriented and do their full combo when they are full life. It just felt dumb to invest into spellvamp, because it was not really usefull as a stat. They only exception was vladimir, who profited from spellvamp.

And right now item 3146 exist. You can buy it and get heal from casting spells that do ap damage. It's quite good on lb, kata and akali

Unreformed Shaco2 votes

I think it was fine, too strong on certain champs, so fix those abusers rather than taking out a valuable niche stat.

And as for burst orientated.. so are pieces of shit like Riven and Renekton who not only get to benefit from Lifesteal, but also Spellvamp from DD.

Build Hextech is good for people who burst with the active, but for others.. not so much. You also have to waste gold on the AD part of it, which is pretty worthless.

EDIT: Lifesteal is also on all the big AD giving items, item 3074 item 3812 item 3072 , so it would only make sense to put spellvamp on a big ticket AP item, giving burst mages a reason to build it.

Durzaka3 votes

so it would only make sense to put spellvamp on a big ticket AP item, giving burst mages a reason to build it.

Mages and ADs have very different roles in team fights. Putting it on a big AP item wouldnt make people want it anymore. Because its not helping their burst. They want to deal as much damage as possible as soon as possible. AD want to keep their damage up (aka sustained) especially ADCs who need to be alive to take turrets and objectives while being squishy.

Jmman3 votes

SO are mages not Squishy that want to keep their damage up as well? Do mages not want to take objectives?

Or are mages just support for adc? I'm pretty sure ADC late game are like mages. Some are burstTwitch Tristana , some are pokeVarus MissFortune , some are sustain Jinx with a mixture of some.

So no they are the same just no sustain nor extra damage to turret. and the non burst ones are getting hosed by the burst and everyone hatred toward the burst. And fearing to make the other non burst made strong will make the strong event better.

You know the meta mages all have burst right.....

Durzaka3 votes

Mages (like I said, with exceptions) want to deal their damage upfront. So no, not really comparable.

Jmman2 votes

AurelionSol Cassiopeia Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Evelynn Kassadin Karthus Malzahar Morgana Ryze Swain Taliyah Teemo guess are getting buffed soon so they have their damage moved to being "upfront"

DJMason881 votes

Who the hell calls Eve, Kassadin and Teemo mages?

Jmman1 votes

Magic damage and spells? rofl Teemo and kassadin not mages. I can maybe give you Eve but you really question teemo and kass?

Protokai2 votes

kass is an assassin: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

teemo is a unique champion he is played mostly onhit nowadays kinda like kennen and kayle. Even his more AP centered builds like nashors tooth to increase his DPS.

Jmman1 votes

Almost like kass is a mage assassin o.O

You know for 6 season mage user were mages. The Rito decided to call "mages" burst ones and other "mages" got specifics mage names.

This Call all the Non burst mage Unique or Enchanter or what every so they can lump "mages" are balance. Instead of fixing "mages" they just took the good ones and renamed the others. So no I only call the assassins they are mage or ad assassins by the type of damage they do. See rito new I had a major issues with mages in general because they can't make other good without break others.

You can call it a water fowl all you want it if its look and quacks like a duck I'm not wrong. Your bait and switching the issue at hand because of names.

Protokai1 votes
DJMason881 votes

Oh so having magic damages and spells make you a mage. So Amumu, Ekko , Katarina , Fizz , Diana , Galio , Nautilus , Alistar Chogath , Mordekaiser must be mages then, since they deal magic damage and have spells right?

Jmman1 votes

You realize mages can be assassins or tank right?

sorry for right for 6 season they were and then the bait and switch happened and now the non meta mages are unique or some other name that means a TYPE of mage.

DJMason881 votes

"Mages are offensive casters that seek to cripple and burn down the opposition through their potent spells." "Tanks excel in shrugging off incoming damage and focus on disrupting their enemies more than being significant damage threats themselves" "Slayers are fragile but agile damage-focused melee champions that look to swiftly take down their targets" (Assassins are a subclass of slayers).

Jmman1 votes

enchanter - type of mage that uses enchantments mages - Artillery -jayce...... yep this chart must be correct.

I understand what your trying to say but don't worry about common sense.

Once you realize that list was just to group same type of role to fill together and not item it will mage sense.

Like I don't see a difference in AP mage/assassin/tank/enchant etc items. so how does this effect Spell vamp argument?

Unreformed Shaco2 votes

That whole "ADCs are the turret takers" was phased out ages ago, ever since mages do bonus magic damage to turrets based on AP.

They are also capable of taking out turrets quickly.

Also, not every mage is about burst, there are quite a few who deal sustained damage.

Durzaka4 votes

Bullshit.

Bonus magic damage or not, mages dont take turrets, ADCs do. They build vastly more sustained damage, on top of building attack speed.

Jmman2 votes

So what is the point of a mage?

Should we just delete all the non burst ones then.

I think you have idea about the game. playing lee and zac..... the nerve to comment on mages.

Ralanr3 votes

Ranged CC and control.

Mages tend to be the best seigers in game.

Jmman1 votes

Ranged CC and control sounds like support.

again ADC are best for turrets and damage to turret. Support can CC and control so what is the point of a mage is others do it better?

Ralanr2 votes

Well granted supports and mages have similar spell spam playstyles. Mages however are more built for siege damage from a far than protecting allies, and tend to be better at zoning.

Mages are active, supports are reactive.

Jmman1 votes

Where is this "far" damage to the turret because ADC have "farther" range.

No mage supports are active. You have no idea what you are talking about. You just total pushed out mages from the game and only support now for AD.

Zoning can be done why ad as well. Bronze 1 support main. You are mad because you play supports zoned by mages. Please play and win more before commenting on mages. At least play a lot of games with them and at a higher then bronze level.

Ralanr2 votes

{quoted}

Where is this "far" damage to the turret because ADC have "farther" range.

Never said it was mage damage to turrets if that's what you're implying.

No mage supports are active. You have no idea what you are talking about. You just total pushed out mages from the game and only support now for AD.

Mages are active, supports like Janna are reactive.

Zoning can be done why ad as well. Bronze 1 support main. You are mad because you play supports zoned by mages. Please play and win more before commenting on mages. At least play a lot of games with them and at a higher then bronze level.

Don't know why you decided to put ranked into this and I am not a support main.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

Explain to me why Ziggs replaced all the ADCs for a while if ADCs are the best tower takers?

Ralanr2 votes

Wow, one mage that is specifically designed for structure destruction. That totally means all mages are equal if not better than ADCs at taking towers.

DeathBurst1 votes

so fix those abusers rather than taking out a valuable niche stat.

The problem is that spells have such varying patterns over the 130+ champs that there will ALWAYS be some abusers, you can't have the stat balanced for all champs at the same time. If you fix it so that Vlad is not broken with Spellvamp, then it will be Ryze or Azir or Morgana or whatever. But it will never be balanced for everyone at the same time. Someone will abuse the stat, if you put it on an item that everyone has access to.

EDIT: Lifesteal is also on all the big AD giving items, , so it would only make sense to put spellvamp on a big ticket AP item, giving burst mages a reason to build it.

It's not Burst AD champ that build Lifesteal, most of the time. It's ADC and Skirmishers such as Yasuo and Fiora. Not Assassins like Talon or Zed.

Jmman3 votes

What about the Non Burst mages. I'm guessing you are forgetting about them like everyone else. Those were the ones that needed the spell vamp.

Ralanr2 votes

You mean the mages that usually poked from afar?

Yeah I don't think they need sustain with their distance.

Jmman2 votes

Like adcs range by hey your said they don't need it either. I'm waiting to see your post about removing it from adcs

Ralanr1 votes

ADCs are usually in a fight longer than mages. They don't have all their damage frontloaded.

sobi9991 votes

[deleted]

Ralanr2 votes

They were balanced around it. That's why spellvamp was shit or either sustain mages like Vlad and Swain were shit.

Jmman1 votes

Clueless support / ad... hey but Lifesteal is needs Immaright?

Ralanr1 votes

I'm a top main pal.

Glory971 votes

Do you want to suggest to bring back spellvamp, or do you want to cry for nerfs for DD?

Unreformed Shaco5 votes

Either bring back spellvamp or cull lifesteal.

Hardly fair to see people healing 20% of their health per auto.

Glory971 votes

Well we have tanks, that build full tank and still have enough damage to kill an adc within 2 seconds. That's why it's only fair to have good lifesteal in the game. And you can always cc the enemy to prevent them from lifestealing and burst them withing the cc duration. Yeah there are some bothersome champions that are quite annoying (fiora) with lifesteal, but we can't address these issues by flat out nerfing lifesteal itself.

Ralanr4 votes

Do you have a video of a full tank 100-0 an adc in two seconds? Preferably an adc that isn't incredibly behind or a tank that isn't super ahead.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Hey now don't make it impossible. They need to subtly imply one was underfed or the other was fed so they can honestly say it's possible.

Unreformed Shaco3 votes

Well, stat wise.. mages are just as squishy.

So by your logic that we need lifesteal to stop squishy ADCs dying, we would also need spellvamp to stop squishy mages dying.

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