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Can Junglers Be at Fault?

Asdw120·2/27/2016, 1:17:01 AM·2 votes·968 views

So the most common debate I've seen so far in my short time in the league, covers the topic of junglers.

I understand a few things about the jungle role:

1.) It is not their responsibility to gank

2.) They are allowed to afk farm in the jungle as long as they take objectives, such as dragon, etc.

3.) And it is not their fault for my deaths in the lane.

However, in every video regarding this topic on YouTube, it always portrays that the jungler cannot be at fault for anything. But, I don't seem to buy that, as I feel there isn't a logical way there can be a position where literally anything they do is 'okay.' So I unfortunately have a few circumstances where I'm unsure if I'm allowed to be frustrated with the jungler justifiably. In all of these situations, this is before the laner has died, or has only died once.

1.) The jungler afk farms in the jungle, does not take any objectives, such as Dragon, or Baron, and only comes in to lane when their laner has died, or left, to either clean up the other laner, or to take cs.

2.) The jungler comes in when their laner is not present, and tries to fight his laner's opponent, despite having a clear disadvantage (Such as level, hp, mana, etc.), and dies. The amount of times this happens during the duration of the laning phase varies starting after one occurrence. (For this one, I can see how the result can vary depending on the number of occurrences, although I'm unsure of how I should judge this factor, so if you could reference this detail if you choose to answer this one, that would be appreciated).

3.) A laner (in an example, me) pings for help from the jungler, due to heavy lane pressure, and would like him to help with this. The opposing laner(s) are pushed right up to my tower for the majority of this. However, he does not do anything, and continues to farm in the jungle. He tries to contest objectives, such as Dragon, and Baron, but cannot due to the fact that most of the time, his bot lane/mid lane cannot support him as they either have to back, or are too far behind to be able to help (e.x. no items vs 1-2 items) and he always has the disadvantage in numbers and power. He also does not gank any lanes and/or only ganks one lane, and primarily focuses on jungle farming.

In all these situations, I did not consider the fact that the jungler was a devourer jungler, however I feel that this detail may not be entirely relevant, as even if the jungler is going devourer, they should be actively going for dragon and baron, as it gives them 5 stacks each, and I'm okay with afk farming as long as they do go for these objectives. Also, my mmr currently places me against Silver, Bronze, and Gold players, although this factor may not be as entirely relevant either.

I also just want to state that I'm not looking for situations where I can blame the jungler, but I am looking for situations where I can feel justifiably frustrated with the jungler's actions, and perhaps feel they could have done something more. If I feel that the jungler is not at fault, or could not have done anything to benefit the team, then it is easier for me to be able to let it go and accept the responsibility of losing. Also, if there are any situations that I have not mentioned that apply to this post, I would appreciate knowing those aswell. Thank you for your time in reading this awfully lengthy post, and I hope you have a splendid day. :)

10 Comments

Nyhver2/27/2016, 1:21:27 AM3 votes

Simply put, yes. Every player and position can be at fault. But a lot of players just revert to scapegoat, complain and rage, instead of looking at things objectively.

Gunnlaug2/27/2016, 1:25:43 AM1 votes

The best thing to do is not place blame on anything in particular. It creates tension inside your team which can lead to tilt and overall a negative experience. When something goes wrong, just put it behind you and play on

Zero Skill Tank2/27/2016, 1:41:56 AM1 votes

Jungler is just another position - if enemy jungler provides more for his team than yours, your chance of winning drop. Just like if enemy top or mid were stronger than yours. Junglers often avoid taking the blame though, because their interaction with enemies is less direct, AND because laners dong badly will often try put blame on a jungler who did nothing wrong.

Recognizing what you yourself did bad and what was fault of your teammates is crucial part of League, unfortunately it can't be explained easily. If, for example, enemy jungler puts heavy pressure on you, it is your responsibility to fall behind as little as possible, but in general falling behind somewhat is to be expected - generally speaking, your lane opponent should be roughly as good as you are, if they have advantage you can expect them to win. Your jungler does not need to help you directly, but if he fails to equalize this pressure by giving advantage to other lane, carrying lategame with devourer, controlling objectives or whatever he will be the one to blame - you can't be realistically expected to go equal in the lane if enemy jungler ganks you every two minutes and your buddy never comes, all you can do is survive this without feeding. Even if you lose such game, chances are you did the right thing.

Linna Excel2/28/2016, 8:52:46 PM1 votes

A jungler is completely at the mercy of the laners on some issues. If I pick a farm jungler or someone who can't gank before 6, you need to be aware of that. If your HP or mana is too low, I can't gank. If you are too close to their tower and I'm not playing a diver, I can't gank. If you've given up 3 deaths in 10 minutes, there's nothing I can do for you as you are now that far behind. If you need me in your lane to babysit you but won't let me take farm, I'm not going to let the other jungler have free reign in ours. If I'm on the other side of the map, there's nothing I can do for you.

Basically if you want to rise in elo, you need to be able to win your own lane without help. The jungler has his own things to worry about.

Here's one big concern, if I show myself in lane, the other jungler knows where I am but I don't know where he is. That's a huge disadvantage by itself so I need to have a good enough reason to show myself.

funny guy13/5/2016, 3:16:47 AM1 votes

as a jg main. afk farming is stupid. If a lane is low and on your side of the map you should secure the kill. I always farm as much as i can till i see an opportunity and i take dragon if enemy jg is top or we get a bot lane kill. i am a bronze jg with a 59 winrate. i dont think the word afk farming should be a concept cuz its default if u aint farmin ur fuckin up. same goes for ganks i ping im coming and i gank if u dont make a play ur fault. i only wait if wave is about to push to tower and i think they will pressure tower or if its a champ like zed i will wait for his shadow to cd.

ArlanKels3/6/2016, 10:57:47 PM1 votes

Junglers are at fault, yes. Every player is at fault. The support just sits bottom doing nothing.. Well maybe he should wander toward mid?

The top lane pushes up and dominates but has nothing to do? Maybe they should go toward mid?

The mid pushes out too far and gets ganked? STOP CALLING FOR GANKS IF YOU'RE PUSHING UP...

I mean.. Hi. I'm Arlan. There is no i in Team. But there are free hugs.