It's high time we stop whining for Garen buffs

chipndip1·Jun 3, 2017·72 votes·4,735 views

No amount of buffing is fixing Garen. Didn't Riot already buff Garen after they were forced to dumpster his binary ass after the jugs update in the first place? You know, with the whole "shred your armor" deal? Garen has no variance in his abilities, nothing to fail or master, and that's why he's intentionally left to be garbage. They want him to be "kinda viable", but no amount of tacking on numbers does much for his lousy game play pattern, so unless you're actually about it and you want to see fundamental changes to Garen's kit and play pattern, stop whining about him at all. Garen as he is will never be made into a decent champion worth mastering because he just lacks the tools to keep up with the game's roster as a juggernaut at this point (and the jugs class is already lagging behind as a class, save a few). Garen's kit is NEVER going to be more valuable to a team than Darius's unless Garen's broken by numbers. Bet RP on it.

Garen doesn't need minor changes. He needs an overhaul...similar to Teemo.

87 Comments

LadyRenlyJun 3, 201748 votes

garens kit is obnoxious as fuck, Garen sucks against competent enemies but when it works its really overbearing and feels like there is zero counterplay if he gets on top of you. You just get silenced, spinned to win and then 1k true damage nuked, as an adc theres no outplay to that outside of having every bush in the game warded.

So he's kept garbage and be a bronze only problem, buffing him will only exacerbate his problems into higher elos.

I think we're just gonna have to wait for another mini rework tbh

An Enemy SutandoJun 3, 20176 votes

He was mini-reworked twice already but that didn't do anything.

He needs more fundamental changes, similarly to WW.

ScarletVixenDec 7, 20171 votes

I agree with Garen needing a complete overhaul. He needs to be 100% reworked to make him reasonably viable instead of left to being the "beginner trash champion" you ditch when you want to actually to try a champion that requires skill cuz of how boring he is.

Garen's kit allows him to both be powerful as hell, but also extremely durable at the same time. The only weakness he has is how useful he can be in higher elo's because of how mind numbingly predictable his kit is and how useless it is when it comes to the team fight phase other than face planting into their team and hoping they can't suppress you with cc.

Dealing with Garen is fairly simple... if you can't harass him constantly, just let him push and get ganked cuz he has little response for that other than Qing to run, spinning and pray he out damages the gank, w and hope his buff is enough.

His kit needs to be completely overhauled to make him an actual champion to learn and master.

Papa AndreiJun 3, 201710 votes

People aren't asking for straight up buffs. They want changes, something to make him less binary, more useful. Stop complaining about imaginary posts.

chipndip1Jun 3, 20173 votes

Most people just want "tweaks" like the post right under yours. He needs brand new moves. He needs a more complex play pattern. They did it for WW. Do it for Garen.

And A Real HieroJun 3, 201711 votes

I'm cool with this but only, only if they keep the Spin.

Spin 2 win.

Jeddy017Jun 3, 20177 votes

Wait, someone is asking for buffs? Most Garen threads I've seen is asking for changes to his kit aka rework him.

Envoy of MelodyJun 4, 20176 votes

Something Garen needs is a rework to his Q, W or R, or maybe even all of them.

The way Garen's E functions ingame is very solid and helps him CS, which isn't too oppressive or useless either, but all of his other tools are selfish, greedy and give him tunnel vision.

For a tank, even BRUISER, Garen lacks the general idea of a tank, somebody who can occupy the attention of 5 people. His kit is laid out to turn him into a live version of Rift Herald with only one objective, beating either on the ADC or on the villain. His Q is a nearly useless tool in a fair teamfight and his W, aside from giving him damage reduction, is absolutely useless. No damage reduction can fix that Garen doesn't even GET to participate in a teamfight at high elo. Everyone knows how limited and short-ranged Garen is and they use the knowledge to play ping pong with him. As the front line tank, all Garen does is take damage, not much more than that. He has no gap closers when flash is on cooldown and when he has flash available, he's most likely going to use it to make an all in engage on the next best person he can hit before he's mauled to death by true damage.

People like to compare Garen to Darius, and it's really not that wrong to do so, because it helps you understand how huge the gap between Garen's contribution and Darius' contribution is.

Darius has an effective gap closer, his E, that combined with his ultimate can put up to five people on the enemy team on a centered spot, perfect for his mage friends to fire all of their skillshots onto five people at once. His Q heals him equal to the amount of people hit by the edge of his Q, which is an annoying gimmick that helps him stay relevant in teamfights. There's nothing more annoying than being forced to watch your teammates feed health to Darius, and sometimes not even they can prevent it from happening because he smartly uses his tools to do so.

Then, Darius' ultimate. Garen has a barely guaranteed chance at executing somebody at a specific percentage of health, 'barely' guaranteed, while Darius has an ultimate that completely defies all defenses and can be recasted if he kills somebody. Basically, Darius has Garen's ultimate, except it works properly and deals true damage, whereas Garen's ultimate, unless he attacks the villain, deals percentage magic damage.

Garen's ultimate is unreliable, it fails to hit the spot and there is no clarity whether or not his ultimate is going to kill anyone. And even if it does, he is not rewarded for it in the first place.

item 3001 , item 3102 , item 3109 , item 3157 , item 3156 , item 3139 , all of these items that are frequently bought ingame deny Garen his entire kit. Whether it's their active effects, their health or their Magic Resistance, Garen will barely be able to kill anyone if they have these items at their dispense.

Mercurial removes Garen's silence and lets people that suffer under his vendetta use mobility skills/flash, and get movement speed that helps them escape from his E shred and ult range.

If you asked me right now what Garen needs that he doesn't have already, I'll tell you that Garen's biggest problem is his role in the meta. What he needs is a rework that defines what he is, a duelist, a defender, or an aggressive bruiser with short temper. Right now, he's supposed to be all three at once and is unreliably doing all three jobs.

Garen doesn't feel or play like a tank, he feels like a duelist. He doesn't contribute tankiness to a teamfight, he contributes it to his own, selfish hate agenda known as the villain system. He doesn't care about the survival of his teammates, he cares about the death of one and only one person on the enemy team and has 0 control over who it is. It's a system that doesn't help him in the least, it only slows him down as both a tank AND a duelist.

The villain system is supposed to reward Garen, but it only restricts him. He can't reliably tank for his team because he doesn't have the tools for it, and he can't reliably outduel anyone because his villain system is randomized. He has no place in the meta because his role is too divided into multiple jobs rather than focusing on one task.

HítlerDidNtWrongJun 28, 20172 votes

Garen just needs his base/Q mobility and silence duration, and his Tenacity back. There's literally no reason why Cho'gaths instant ranged AOE silence should have a higher duration than a melee single target animation wind up silence.

Garen USED to have a better base MS, Q MS, Silence duration, and Passive Tenacity that didn't allow him to become an EXP/GOLD balloon from one CC during teamfights. Not to mention his SPIN was actually a threat during teamfights and only fools would dare attempt to engage until it was baited out.

Counterplay to Garen has turned into AAbackstep>AA backstep>AAbackstep>CC if necessary.

[zombie-brand-facepalm] The Dev team should be embarrassed by how far they have let his kit and numbers fall. Bronzies complain about Garen and now he is a Joke character and the only reason his Winrate hasn't dipped to 30% or lower is because some people on trick him and get carried by their team comp because no one else is maining him so they like the surprise on everyones face when hes played well despite the huge disadvantage he brings to your team. Picking Garen is like throwing away a ban, in fact Faker bans him simply because G is the first letter of the Korean alphabet and for no other reason. THAT is how much of a joke Garen has become. He has no free summoner 4 mechanic no Hard CC summoner 3 gimmick no free life Aatrox Ekko gimmick, terrible base MS Poppy Pantheon pathetic excuse of a silence Chogath no reset on his ult making it a shittier Darius ult, extremely low attack speed MasterYi XinZhao bad access to crit Yasuo Tryndamere no ranged gimmick Aatrox DrMundo Poppy Gnar Gangplank Ekko Chogath Illaoi even his god damn sister Lux has R CDR now somewhat comparable to Darius Lorewise hes supposed to be able to fight evenly with Katarina (LOL) and not get outrun by people that probably have never worked out their scrawny leg muscles before. Every champion breaks the mold in some way, why not let speed and strength be Garen's when everything else about him is just a nerfed version of every other champion in the game. Even his passive is pointless since we have it in item form item 3083 item 1054 item 1006 and it's USELESS early game without taking the mastery version of the very SAME NAME. Garen used to be a threat and now he's a joke with a spin that gets weaker just because it's hitting more than one person.

Zero Skill TankJun 3, 20175 votes

A nice fix, IMO, would be to make his Q bonus move speed only apply when moving TOWARD enemy champions (or at least be lowered otherwise), and than adjust his stats accordingly.

See, Darius and Volibear don't really have THAT MUCH more mechanics in their kit compared to Garen, but they are both much more succesful champions. I might be wrong on that, but the real difference between Garen and similar Juggernauts is that Garen has a semi-reliable escape. This ability to slow-cleanse and run away when in trouble means that Garen's pressure can't ever be lifted anywhere near to Darius levels - Garen's pressure is harder for enemies to relieve, so it needs to be lower. Unfortunately for big G, applying pressure is what toplane Juggernaut's are all about - a jugg with mediocre pressure is a wrothless champion.

Lowering his safety by lowering his escaping move speed wouldn't allow to catch up with rest of champions (complete lack of mechanics, Villain and his passive stay a problem), but would allow to make him SOMEWHAT more decent. IMO.

chipndip1Jun 3, 20174 votes

How does Volibear fit into any of this? He's been off the map for ages.

Anywho, no, tweaking his Q a tiny bit isn't going to fix the Garen issue, because when Garen's strong there's hardly anything you can do about it. We've seen Garen when he was strong two years ago, and it was LOATHSOME. Until you can fix the issue of that happening again, he's gonna sit tight in the dumpster. Like, does anyone have fun when Kayle's meta? Or Teemo? Same shit. No one likes it when low or no counter-play champs are meta, and "Never be near me ever" isn't exactly significant counter-play, which is what these guys demand when they're strong.

nyx1998Jun 3, 20172 votes

In my day, we would never have allowed an armored bear into the League of Legends

ShablagooJun 3, 20175 votes

Because like most champions ppl main them, and the mains dont like their champion being a dumpster ass binary champion. Why not make all champions unique instead of keeping one as a shit pick thats so clear cut a simple he has no use? Imagine if your champion was like this how would you feel?

chipndip1Jun 3, 20179 votes

I agree. Garen should be fixed. What I disagree on is that this can be achieved through buffs. His foundation is flawed for League in 2017 and beyond.

BrascusJun 4, 20172 votes

There are still quite a few champs that are like this. They're not great, but when their strengths are allowed to shine, they stomp in such disgusting ways, so their base are usually trash or they're lee sin for some reason.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 3, 20175 votes

Why not make all champions unique instead of keeping one as a shit pick thats so clear cut a simple he has no use?

Fun fact, when riot try to change a champ old mains keep crying. Even when changes are good (new zac Q).

lich RolandJun 3, 20174 votes

I really like Garen's lore and theme and i have 100k mastery on him but i'd like a big rework on his kit,mainly on his passive and E

MannnyJun 4, 20174 votes

There have been many, many Teemo mains at challenger. Teemo is fine, he fits a good niche. I agree with Garen though.

Smitty ManjensenJun 4, 20174 votes

Someone got salty af from the other thread where people dumpstered your "ideas", so you made a thread? What I find the most amusing how he is triggered by Garen and Garen mains who ask for buffs, he opposes them hard, while maining Sona, loled hard when I saw that. And yes, I am a Garen main, no need to check.

chipndip1Jun 4, 20173 votes

When they announced the Sona mini-rework, you wanna know what I said during that rabble? To put it simply: We aren't going to find a satisfying, long-term solution for what Sona's initial rework was SUPPOSED to accomplish because she's too simple and easy to give noticeable, satisfying highs to play her. Make Q a skill shot or something at the least and she can finally not have to stand so close to enemies to fight.

Just because I main Sona doesn't mean my stance changes. Sona, Garen, Teemo, Kayle, Yi, Xin...all these champs need higher skill floors. Even now, I'll get in situations where my adc just blatantly doesn't realize I did anything in a skirmish or dicey situation because Sona's contributions are designed to be small, spammable mini-servings rather than a fleshed out move.

I didn't give any actual ideas on how to work with Garen. I only stated that Garen needs more work than "A few tweaks" in order to be fixed. If you disagree, then honestly, go right ahead. I'm just telling you now that you'll be sorely disappointed years down the line when Garen's still the butt of all jokes of a top laner. Mechanical difficulty and possible counter-play directly effects how much power Riot allows into a champ. Like...2 years ago or so, Meddler made a statement pretty much confirming that, although the topic at the time was Sona.

Smitty ManjensenJun 4, 20173 votes

{quoted}

When they announced the Sona mini-rework, you wanna know what I said during that rabble? To put it simply: We aren't going to find a satisfying, long-term solution for what Sona's initial rework was SUPPOSED to accomplish because she's too simple and easy to give noticeable, satisfying highs to play her. Make Q a skill shot or something at the least and she can finally not have to stand so close to enemies to fight.

Just because I main Sona doesn't mean my stance changes. Sona, Garen, Teemo, Kayle, Yi, Xin...all these champs need higher skill floors. Even now, I'll get in situations where my adc just blatantly doesn't realize I did anything in a skirmish or dicey situation because Sona's contributions are designed to be small, spammable mini-servings rather than a fleshed out move.

I didn't give any actual ideas on how to work with Garen. I only stated that Garen needs more work than "A few tweaks" in order to be fixed. If you disagree, then honestly, go right ahead. I'm just telling you now that you'll be sorely disappointed years down the line when Garen's still the butt of all jokes of a top laner. Mechanical difficulty and possible counter-play directly effects how much power Riot allows into a champ. Like...2 years ago or so, Meddler made a statement pretty much confirming that, although the topic at the time was Sona.

Yes he is a joke now, that's why he needs a buff in some way, and no he does not need a stupid gimmick or skillshot, I am tired of those champs, I want a simple champ which is effective somewhat at least. And they definitely can make him without him being too strong. I still get people who complain about me playing an op champ. That just proves that most people are bronze or silver trash which don't know anything else than complain.

chipndip1Jun 4, 20172 votes

If you buff him, he's too generic and simple to be a healthy champ, and he's gonna get nerfed again anyway. You're missing that point.

Smitty ManjensenJun 4, 20174 votes

{quoted}

If you buff him, he's too generic and simple to be a healthy champ, and he's gonna get nerfed again anyway. You're missing that point.

Depends on the buff, they nerfed his mobility and damage in favor of that stupid villain shit, so if they remove that crap and give him something proper then he can be good.

Scary DoorJun 6, 20172 votes

Not every champion needs a high skill floor. There should be a champion for every kind of skill in the game.

Frankly, a Sona main should never say anything about Garen being an easy champion---or, for that matter, chime in about "skill" anything. "Oh look I'm Sona... I press Q, auto/power-chord and do half of an opposing non-tank or adcs health" such skill. At least Garen has to get in your face to do damage, while Sona is ranged, has a heal and if built with AP can easily delete squishies.

Sona has a 70% win rate in ARAM, permabanned in featured game modes like URF, OFA (you know the modes we don't ever see anymore). Why? Because she's disgustingly simplistic and does far too much /free/ damage. By "free", I mean she doesn't even have to fire a skill shot or even POINT and CLICK a target. As a support, if played with any semblance of common sense, can win lane pretty easily. She's had a >50% win rate for as long as I have played this game (almost 6 years now).

In fact, Sona has THE highest win rate in the game overall presently at 55.7% as of this writing.

Sure, she isn't Rakan with flashy moves, but why bother with targeted skill shots when you can chunk your opponents health down without even having to target/aim?

No, sorry, Sona man's opinion on the topic of balance is not legitimate. Thanks for playing.

chipndip1Jun 6, 20171 votes

[deleted]

HítlerDidNtWrongJun 28, 20171 votes

You cry foul at others invalidating your argument rationally AFTER you just attempted to invalidate Garen mains arguing for a champ that isn't a polished turd mechanically and numerically.

Maybe I should become a Sona main and then I won't have to struggle in elo hell and just get carried by pressing a couple buttons. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

chipndip1Jun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Suterusu Rocks U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8AKtnXXT,comment-id=000f0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T05:44:42.512+0000)

You cry foul at others invalidating your argument rationally AFTER you just attempted to invalidate Garen mains arguing for a champ that isn't a polished turd mechanically and numerically.

Rational argument to invalidate my opinion on Garen: You play Sona so you just don't matter.

How is that anything that adds value to this discussion?

Also, where did I "invalidate" Garen mains?

Maybe I should become a Sona main and then I won't have to struggle in elo hell and just get carried by pressing a couple buttons.

You should. Sona stomps low elo quite easily. When I first picked up Sona I rocketed out of Bronze on an 18 game win streak. That was 2 years ago, my first year playing.

Also, are you implying I got carried to Diamond 3? Cause if so I'm insinuating you're hard stuck Bronze on one of the few champions that manages to be simpler than Sona.

HítlerDidNtWrongJun 28, 20171 votes

Also, where did I "invalidate" Garen mains?<

"simpler than Sona."

You didn't climb that far with Garen.

If he's so simple and doesn't need to be buffed then you climb with him and tell me how well you do. I'll wait. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

chipndip1Jun 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Suterusu Rocks U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8AKtnXXT,comment-id=000f000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T09:57:03.870+0000)

"simpler than Sona."

Cause he is and you're just coming out of the woodwork getting on my case with these ridiculous face palm stickers when I was responding to someone that basically was trying to dismiss what I said in this thread over playing a champion that's STILL more complex than the one in discussion. Even then, this quote doesn't "invalidate" anything a Garen main has to say.

You didn't climb that far with Garen.

Cause you're telling me I "got carried" to Diamond fucking 3 of all ranks, when I almost exclusively play solo. Idc how you feel on that one.

If he's so simple and doesn't need to be buffed then you climb with him and tell me how well you do. I'll wait. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

I'm not stupid enough to play a champ like Garen in the first place. You should be smart enough to stop playing him.

HítlerDidNtWrongJun 28, 20171 votes

(Plays the easiest Support so the team can carry.) Sona is Freelo which is why you wouldn't ever try to climb with Garen because it's too challenging for you.

"I'm not stupid enough to play a champ like Garen in the first place. You should be smart enough to stop playing him."

No one can call me the stupidz for playin tha sona but imma call da garens da stupidz cause eyem sew much bettar guize

Is basically what you've been arguing this whole thread.** You're clearly biased against certain champions being playable and competitive** maybe you never want them to be a threat to how you're performing by OTPing one of the easiest supports?

Garen's power budget is completely screwed to the point that he is unplayable competitively to anyone that isn't already at the level of MarineRevenge or Ristiummask. When you get to diamond as a Garen OTP I might be willing to listen to your opinions on the champ, however you are approaching Garen with a bronze level of understanding in your opinions thus invalidating them of your own volition. I would argue that no other champions kit is more useless in competitive play based on how he performs mechanically, yet the best "argument" from naysayers such as yourself is that "YER DUMB FER PLAYIN HIM AN EYEM SMART FER NAWT DURRR"

You have no valid argument when it comes to Garen and until you hit diamond with him then I don't trust you to tell us why we should stop asking for buffs. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

chipndip1Jun 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Suterusu Rocks U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8AKtnXXT,comment-id=000f00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T23:34:51.410+0000)

(Plays the easiest Support so the team can carry.) Sona is Freelo which is why you wouldn't ever try to climb with Garen because it's too challenging for you.

If Sona was that freelo you'd think she'd have a higher playerbase in higher elos. She's just easy to stomp lower elo with because low elos don't know how to farm and return fire against harass at the same time...or shield on time...among other things. You should try it. Beats floundering in Bronze.

Outside of that, why I wouldn't want to try to climb with Garen? CAUSE HE'S FUCKING GARBAGE. Point. Blank. Period. That's it. That and I one trick one character in almost any competitive game I play, regardless. You should see how much Yoshi I play in almost any game featuring Yoshi. I literally just play one character/group of characters per game. This game happens to be Sona. Sue me.

"I'm not stupid enough to play a champ like Garen in the first place. You should be smart enough to stop playing him."

No one can call me the stupidz for playin tha sona but imma call da garens da stupidz cause eyem sew much bettar guize

You're hard stuck Bronze for 200 games and I'm stupid for reaching my season's ranked goal playing solo? Sure thing, bud.

Is basically what you've been arguing this whole thread.** You're clearly biased against certain champions being playable and competitive**

Sona isn't even a strong competitive pick as is BECAUSE SHE'S INCREDIBLY SIMPLE AND BINARY. Didn't I say this a few posts up? Yeah, she's "solo queue strong", but in an organized environment she's significantly weaker, which happens a bit more in higher elos, hence her low elo stomping nature. Garen, however, is hardly even a low elo stomper anymore. He just sucks atm.

Also, how is my analysis of Garen's state "bias"? I didn't say I want him kept bad, nor did I say I want him viable. I said the reason WHY he's bad is because he has no counter-play, thus Riot has intentionally kept him bad for a long time in order to figure something out with him or to just leave him till they rework him. Are you Bronze at reading comprehension?

And honestly, the rest of this baby raging? I'm over it. I've given enough time seeing if you'd actually make a point outside of "You play Sona", which is pretty much a non-point to make given my previous posts. I'm putting my Diamond card down here. No backtalk.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/l3HMALfodb8/hqdefault.jpg

HítlerDidNtWrongJun 29, 20171 votes

"CAUSE HE'S FUCKING GARBAGE"

Which makes those that use him well better than you if they can perform well with a weak champion.

"No backtalk."

You sound like you're going on an ego trip there, careful you might break a blood vessel pressing buttons while playing Sona.

Fact of the matter is Sona is much much easier to play than Garen and no amount of salt or butthurtness from you is going to change sensible player's minds on that.

You're almost as toxic as a Riven main when it comes to others having a different perspective than you.

Git over it!

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Your opinion is invalid because you are acting like a little child when trying to argue with everyone and you got shut down by the guy that told you that you had no room to talk as a Sona main which wasn't even me but I chuckled because lo and behold he was correct. You're so toxic one of your posts was deleted because you can't handle having a simple conversation without turning it into a keyboard hero fight.

Git over it Kiddo! xD GG WP EZ PZ

SalsonJun 3, 20173 votes

He needs what RekSai and Kindred got this very patch.

chipndip1Jun 3, 20176 votes

If it were up to me, I'd change his passive, W, and his Q or R. He's needs more than a mini-rework. We already mini-reworked Garen like twice now.

Big LincolnJun 3, 20175 votes

his E is what needs to change, though, it's the actual 'stat-check' part of his kit

chipndip1Jun 3, 20176 votes

To be fair his entire kit's basically one giant stat check. I just imagine spinning on people is what people see in Garen the most, but maybe the silencing dunk is worth keep while having E be a new type of spinning move?

Big LincolnJun 3, 20173 votes

im working on an idea for it, will post later

Akali is SO HOTJun 4, 20172 votes

His silence is probably the first thing that needs to go. He'll never be allowed to be strong as long as he has a silence in his kit because it means his combos are unavoidable after he silences you. Talon, Kass, etc. got their silences removed for basically the same reason

SociopathFriendJun 4, 20172 votes

Talon, Kass, and Leblanc got their silences removed because they were mobile and could silence you before you could do anything to stop them from doing it.

Garen has to physically run up to you, he's not the same as those other champions.

Big LincolnJun 4, 20173 votes

the difference being that theirs were unavoidable on top of being ranged/attached to a blink. all 3 of them are far more mobile too

garen's silence is completely fine, i would say his Q should be stronger but missable to free up some power budget/add a lil more counterplay.

SalsonJun 3, 20173 votes

Well i mean he can't get a VGU, the current visual state is good. A new passive is a must W could give half reduction to teamates Vilain was a bugtest for Kindred

chipndip1Jun 3, 20176 votes

Hasn't stopped Ryze.

SalsonJun 3, 201722 votes

Nothing stops Ryze, he co-founded Riot.

chipndip1Jun 3, 20175 votes

Gonna upvote this before I log out.

starelementpokeJun 3, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Nothing stops Ryze, he co-founded Riot.

This is true.

ThefrostyvikingJun 4, 20172 votes

He was forced to change a lot though.

Meanwhile Trynda is sitting on his toplane like he´s been from the start.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 3, 20171 votes

Maybe his Q aswell though. A point and click silence generally highly limits a champions kit and most of them got removed..

NineTailedMysticJun 4, 20175 votes

It's a melee range Silence unlike LB's, Talon's, and Kassadin's.

Critmaster GarenJun 4, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Didn't Riot already buff Garen after they were forced to dumpster his binary ass after the jugs update in the first place?

this never happened lol. he got a minor 5% movement speed nerf and a 5 base ms nerf which were simple adjustments, directly after the update.

he wasnt touched for like a whole year and did fine after the jugg update. its only when riot came out with the mage update and other indirect changes that caused him to decline.

they never dumpstered him, or at least intended to. quite the opposite. they tried to buff him back up. it just didnt stick. in the long run iot was inconsequential, since armor shred was always something that was easily available to him with cleaver. it didnt add anything new to his kit. even if seen as a number buff, it was pretty small.

and most people who play the champion ARE asking for changes to parts of his kit, not just straight buffs to his current kit.

PermabannedGarenJun 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

No amount of buffing is fixing Garen. Didn't Riot already buff Garen after they were forced to dumpster his binary ass after the jugs update in the first place? You know, with the whole "shred your armor" deal? Garen has no variance in his abilities, nothing to fail or master, and that's why he's intentionally left to be garbage. They want him to be "kinda viable", but no amount of tacking on numbers does much for his lousy game play pattern, so unless you're actually about it and you want to see fundamental changes to Garen's kit and play pattern, stop whining about him at all. Garen as he is will never be made into a decent champion worth mastering because he just lacks the tools to keep up with the game's roster as a juggernaut at this point (and the jugs class is already lagging behind as a class, save a few). Garen's kit is NEVER going to be more valuable to a team than Darius's unless Garen's broken by numbers. Bet RP on it.

Garen doesn't need minor changes. He needs an overhaul...similar to Teemo.

I don't want a buff, I want an actual rework, not Repertoir's half-assed garbage.