Boards›Gameplay

Sona PBE Nerfs

KONO RUBICK DA··30 votes·5,166 views

Aria of Perseverance (W) heal lowered to 40/60/80/100/120 from 40/65/90/115/140 Song of Celerity (E) bonus movement speed lowered to 13/14/15/16/17% from 16/17/18/19/20%

https://media1.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/200.gif https://hallofbeorn.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/everybody-just-calm-down-bear-large.jpg http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/52/528c94218539aa2b9fba2d2c7aecdd4a6a5fe3468b270f605929e39bfe18a6d6.jpg

In the previous patch aria of perseverence got a straight buff, we're going to talk about this latter, because i feel that song of celerity has some serious issues about what it should do.

patch 6.14: Active self movement speed increased to 16 / 17 / 18 / 19 / 20% movement speed for 3 seconds (and up to 7 seconds if Sona is out of combat) from 13 / 14 / 15 / 16 / 17% decaying over 3 seconds. pbe: bonus movement speed lowered to 13/14/15/16/17% from 16/17/18/19/20%

see the problem with this, is that song of celerity was designed to be stronger out of fights, so why isn't riot nerfing the other part of the spell? With 6.14 song of celerity became a strong spell if you want to move from a point to an other point, so why are we nerfing what it should do? a more logical nerf would be reducing its power IN the fight to reduce the power of the spell outside its strength.

then now we can talk about her W:

Aria of Perseverance (W) heal lowered to 40/60/80/100/120 from 40/65/90/115/140

this is a good nerf actually. Over the past riot nerfed/buffed her heal every patch, but in this patch it makes sens.

crescendo gives 40% cdr, which means that with patch 6.14 sona's heal should be more powerful over time, but if the base heal is strong combined with masteries and items she will simply save a fight in the early seconds and continue to be powerful throughout the end of the fight, WITHOUT wasting her mana which should be her new weakness.

overall, talking about sona with riot is like talking with deaf people and i doubt that her E nerf will be rewritten.

85 Comments

Best princess EU24 votes

expected a sona main crying, was surprised by a well written thread

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

hoes and bows13 votes

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/b6/b6b8d3b6aab7cda3556eb0ac4530c66e4021034c1a0d0d3201a41278394b77ef.jpg

LICENSED HOOKER3 votes

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/244/456/2a0.png

why no- you already know this...

ACENOX10 votes

Out of everything i never expected them to nerf her E

Athenes Lulu3 votes

Keep in mind it's her selfish movement speed that's getting nerfed.

Even I think the current movespeed is a bit too fast especially when you max it first.

chipndip15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-07-16T18:43:52.954+0000)

Keep in mind it's her selfish movement speed that's getting nerfed.

Even I think the current movespeed is a bit too fast especially when you max it first.

Who the hell maxes it first?

Athenes Lulu2 votes

I actually do, the movement speed buffs this patch is great.

Her poke got a bit nerfed, enough to where I don't find chunking down people's HP bars effective anymore. W is too mana costly to be leveled up too soon, so I start maxing E as soon as I have 2 points into Q, and 1 or 2 points into W.

chipndip13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-16T22:26:25.409+0000)

I actually do, the movement speed buffs this patch is great.

Her poke got a bit nerfed, enough to where I don't find chunking down people's HP bars effective anymore. W is too mana costly to be leveled up too soon, so I start maxing E as soon as I have 2 points into Q, and 1 or 2 points into W.

Her Q on her own was nerfed. If you line up the shot with your adc, the damage is comparable to before. Also, the power chord has been buffed. In other words, her damage is even more front-loaded into her 3rd spell cast, but now it also relies a bit on striking in unison with your adc. Still, you're trading a decent bit of base damage per level for a 1% movement speed bonus per rank increase on her E. You're trading your main claim to the lane for very miniscule increases in her movement speed bonus. Not the best move.

Crawford8811 votes

This is correct. The heal and the movement buff both scale hard on AP. Improvements to E from rank-ups are trivial. What really makes you go fast is the 8% per 100 AP.

I think they want Sona to build AP and use the E to avoid getting caught, rather than building utility and still having crazy heals.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

This is correct. The heal and the movement buff both scale hard on AP. Improvements to E from rank-ups are trivial. What really makes you go fast is the 8% per 100 AP.

I think they want Sona to build AP and use the E to avoid getting caught, rather than building utility and still having crazy heals.

I can understand this concept a bit, but ap support itemization is clearly worse than tank support itemization.

Need a cleanse? No ap.

Need a team-wide shield? No ap.

Need to lessen attack speed from everyone in range? No ap.

Tank supports get the best effects, and that's the problem.

Crawford8811 votes

Sona's W is a team-wide shield. She doesn't need locket. Also, Sona can get much better gold income from bandit and spellthief than tank supports can get from relic shield.

Athene's and Censer are both really strong on Sona, although when I am ahead, I like to go Lich Bane/Morellonomicon. With high AP, Sona is very hard to escape and she can pump out a ton of damage, but she dies if she ever gets caught or stunned.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Sona's W is a team-wide shield. She doesn't need locket. Also, Sona can get much better gold income from bandit and spellthief than tank supports can get from relic shield.

Athene's and Censer are both really strong on Sona, although when I am ahead, I like to go Lich Bane/Morellonomicon. With high AP, Sona is very hard to escape and she can pump out a ton of damage, but she dies if she ever gets caught or stunned.

Lich and Morello's aren't ap support items.

Also, regardless of what you think, Locket is basically the number 1 support item in this game. You literally can't go wrong with it, and unless the enemy is all ad, it's core. Period. This is why, in higher elos, most people go with building Locket + Crucible no matter who they are. The effects on these items clearly outclass ap support items by a mile. Even Riot admitted this themselves in their last podcast.

FEDXSai6 votes

i feel like simply shrinking her aura size wouldve worked

FEDXSai1 votes

her aura is bigger than some parts of the jungle like the entrance to river near chickens

zlumpy5 votes

So is nunu's ult what's your point?

KONO RUBICK DA4 votes

giving sona weaknesses? that's not what riot really do.

Fashion Mage3 votes

overall, talking about sona with riot is like talking with deaf people

You realize that a bunch of people complained about Sona's auras being too small and that it felt unsatisfying as a result, and then Riot actually changed it based on those complaints?

Considering that a squishy caster's defense in most games is supposed to be range, it makes sense as well.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

it doesn't

sona's kit if full of no counterplay/interaction spells. Her E has now counterplay, her Q doesn't same for her W. Her whole utility kit is balanced (i dare say) by the fact that her range is small, her base ms is the lowest, her base stats are trash which makes her a walking free kill.

but if you were to give her a high aura range, then she can just like when soraka's Q had a high range stay back and avoid any fights.

chipndip14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rubick x Sona,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=0003000200000000,timestamp=2016-07-16T20:42:30.141+0000)

it doesn't

sona's kit if full of no counterplay/interaction spells. Her E has now counterplay, her Q doesn't same for her W. Her whole utility kit is balanced (i dare say) by the fact that her range is small, her base ms is the lowest, her base stats are trash which makes her a walking free kill.

but if you were to give her a high aura range, then she can just like when soraka's Q had a high range stay back and avoid any fights.

400 range auras isn't exactly high. It's only a 50 range increase. You still gotta get relatively close to the front line, and thus enemies, to tag people with your auras.

Think of it like this: Graves can reach you with any and everything in his kit, including his autos, before you can tag an ally with your auras. 400 is fine. If all the other enchantresses are allowed to play teamfights from a safe space, Sona should be able to as well. Being forced to stand insanely close to enemies was a huge problem with Sona's previous aura sizes.

only zhule2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rubick x Sona,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=0003000200000000,timestamp=2016-07-16T20:42:30.141+0000)

it doesn't

sona's kit if full of no counterplay/interaction spells. Her E has now counterplay, her Q doesn't same for her W. Her whole utility kit is balanced (i dare say) by the fact that her range is small, her base ms is the lowest, her base stats are trash which makes her a walking free kill.

but if you were to give her a high aura range, then she can just like when soraka's Q had a high range stay back and avoid any fights.

I hardly feel a +50 range to her aura's is a huge boost. it just means you can stand a little further away and don't have to risk getting caught in AOE abilities quite as often.

Also what counter play do you expect the game to have to heals / shields?

As for counter play in her Q, there is more then most people give credit. Sure the bolt auto targets but that thing does piss poor damage even at max level. Even with the new passive, you would have to kit around an opponent for probably a good min or 2 before you could kill them simply off the auto target bolts. This then brings us to the other side of the damage which is the auto attack follow up. Who's counter play is that it requires Sona to stop for a brief moment to fire the attack within 550 range. That's well within range of basically every champion with some kind of gap closer, pull, or projectile.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=00030002000000000002,timestamp=2016-07-16T23:10:33.781+0000)

Also what counter play do you expect the game to have to heals / shields?

Conditions. Every support champion that has come out or received a major rework in the last few years has conditions on their heal to get the full effect. Nami has to have her heal bounce off an enemy to get the full effect. Bard has to let his shrine sit on the ground for a period of time to get the full effect and it can be deactivated by stepping on it. Soraka has to manage her own health. Taric has to manage charges that control the effectiveness of his heal and he must also AA if he wants to lower the substantial CD of his charges.

Shields from support champions don't really need conditions/counter play because the short duration itself is a form of counter play Shields are also designed to mitigate immediate incoming damage. You can't really add much counter play to that without defeating their purpose.

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=000300020000000000020001,timestamp=2016-07-17T08:04:34.749+0000)

Conditions. Every support champion that has come out or received a major rework in the last few years has conditions on their heal to get the full effect. Nami has to have her heal bounce off an enemy to get the full effect. Bard has to let his shrine sit on the ground for a period of time to get the full effect and it can be deactivated by stepping on it. Soraka has to manage her own health. Taric has to manage charges that control the effectiveness of his heal and he must also AA if he wants to lower the substantial CD of his charges.

Shields from support champions don't really need conditions/counter play because the short duration itself is a form of counter play Shields are also designed to mitigate immediate incoming damage. You can't really add much counter play to that without defeating their purpose.

I would say her condition was proximity to her allies, to get the full effect out of the ability. Sure i can fire off a heal at 700 range, but chances are i'm not tagging my ally with the shield if i do that. Also Sona's heal has a travel time so it is possible to "miss" your heal.

Her end game healing level may be too high, but i'm currently scared that peoples "answer" to that is to put her in a place where her heal is useless in the early to mid game, because you simply don't have the CDR needed to take advantage of her end game power.

The biggest issue i had with her before the changes was that she simply didn't do anything for long periods of time in fights. if you did your rotation of Q and W you often had 4-6 seconds of dead time where all you could do is auto attack at a very slow rate. If this had happened once per fight, then it's no issue.... but often you would hit this dead time over and over and over again if the fight lasted more then 10 seconds.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=0003000200000000000200010000,timestamp=2016-07-17T08:26:49.088+0000)

I would say her condition was proximity to her allies, to get the full effect out of the ability. Sure i can fire off a heal at 700 range, but chances are i'm not tagging my ally with the shield if i do that. Also Sona's heal has a travel time so it is possible to "miss" your heal.

That's a good point. I don't know if it is enough to satisfy Riot in the long term because the heal itself is still has the full effect but it is indeed a condition.

Her end game healing level may be too high, but i'm currently scared that peoples "answer" to that is to put her in a place where her heal is useless in the early to mid game, because you simply don't have the CDR needed to take advantage of her end game power.

In reality end-game healing should be high. In only 2-3 seconds a full build ADC or AP mage/assassin could easily do 2K+ damage. Even now with max CDR and a lot of AP Sona will only heal for a tiny fraction of that number over 2-3 seconds. Now over say 15 seconds she makes a big impact. But why shouldn't she? 15 seconds is a long time. Over that time an ADC or jungler can easily LS to full health and that is considered acceptable.

People complain about heals anytime they actually make an impact. I personally don't think Sona heals for too much at any point in the game. In the early game game she is constrained heavily by mana and very long CD. In the mid game she is still constrained by having limited items, lv 2 R, limited CDR, and she is still constrained by mana. And in the late game she should be strong.

The biggest issue i had with her before the changes was that she simply didn't do anything for long periods of time in fights. if you did your rotation of Q and W you often had 4-6 seconds of dead time where all you could do is auto attack at a very slow rate. If this had happened once per fight, then it's no issue.... but often you would hit this dead time over and over and over again if the fight lasted more then 10 seconds.

Indeed that was a major problem. I would argue though that this problem plagues most of the squishy supports. Nami definitely has it. Janna and Lulu also have it to an extent. Tanks, Mages, and AA focused champions are useful almost continuously. Squishy supports... not so much unless you are Soraka. Some would argue it is a trade off for the utility they provide. Though Sona's utility was particularly limited during fights thanks to so much of it being on her passive. She has 3 forms of utility on her passive but can only choose to use one and (previously) wouldn't get to use her passive utility very many times in a fight thanks to long CD.

MunchCrunchLunch4 votes

{quoted}

i feel like simply shrinking her aura size wouldve worked

QUITE IRONIC

how the only thing people complained about (sona mains) is that her aura size was too small but what do you know you just want bigger numbers .

BastionKross4 votes

Sona just got a rework, so we can expect nerfs for the next 6 - 12 patches.

Punkkee5 votes

this isnt a rework

icedballs4 votes

As a Sona main (mastery 7 and DJ skin owner) I am completely fine with these. I just hope they stop here and let us see if this fixes the "overpowered" issue, before nerfing in every patch for the next 5 patches.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

can't see why they should go further.

her heal is the only overwhelming stuff in this patch. Her movespeed is insane but only out of combat....

DJ S0NA3 votes

Tone down her ult to 10\20\30, revert the E nerf, reduce the E aura to 2.5 seconds and nerf her AP ratio of her heal back to 20% as it was and also keep the heal nerf. There, Sona now won't be a spammable heal bot.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

we really need meddler right now.

DJ S0NA3 votes

The whole problem with her is her semi-URF passive. It's just too much for her. Remember when Riot gave that to Ryze?

Sona also NEEDS the ally buffs. Her auras are fine. Her semi-urf mid-late game playstyle is not. It needs to be toned down.

Eedat3 votes

These "nerfs" will accomplish nothing

Gosh Darn2 votes

I want her to stay a utility support who has to cautiously watch her mana. Before her rework she was a sad Q bot. Oppressive in lane, worthless outside of lane. These changes are really healthy they just need slight adjustments.

Martyrofsand2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Poopybunghole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-07-16T19:36:31.529+0000)

I want her to stay a utility support who has to cautiously watch her mana. Before her rework she was a sad Q bot. Oppressive in lane, worthless outside of lane. These changes are really healthy they just need slight adjustments.

Says someone who has no clue how damn strong Sona was. Sona was queen of support for a while not because of her laning, although it was strong, she was queen of support because of the additional stats she gave to her team that scaled with what your allies had built. She collectively gave 100 AD and AP, and 50 MR and Armor, on top of her move speed buffs and the ability to get minions to turrets faster for sieges. Her team fight was absolutely godly, after the rework she was trash tier irrelevant and now she is actually doing something worth while.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

The problem is the fact she has all of these things and still has a mini-Braum ult. Remove the AoE stun and she can keep all of her utility, but she is definitely not allowed to have both and stay balanced.

Martyrofsand1 votes

All supports have a crapton in their kit. This isn't new, they have to be overloaded some where to justify the fact that they often don't get anywhere near the items of other people. It's why Thresh/Leo/Blitz/naut have a ton of CC and tankiness. It's why Raka/Nami heal and sport reasonable CC but do little damage. Sona isn't even near overloaded and she is fine as she is.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

All supports have a crapton in their kit. This isn't new, they have to be overloaded some where to justify the fact that they often don't get anywhere near the items of other people. It's why Thresh/Leo/Blitz/naut have a ton of CC and tankiness. It's why Raka/Nami heal and sport reasonable CC but do little damage. Sona isn't even near overloaded and she is fine as she is.

Except she's clearly overloaded between aoe benefits, immediate effects, a stun, and multiple powerchords. Her issue is that it's hard to allocate all that possible power in places that actually count without making her broken...like she is now.

Martyrofsand1 votes

{quoted}

Except she's clearly overloaded between aoe benefits, immediate effects, a stun, and multiple powerchords. Her issue is that it's hard to allocate all that possible power in places that actually count without making her broken...like she is now.

Except she's not. Her Chords are limited generally to 1-2 a fight, unless we get to late game with 45% CDR than you can get off several if you play it right, her AoE benefits have a limited range that makes her cluster around her team being easy prey for AoE damage, and considering she is made of tissue paper that's a big deal.

As for other champs Thresh is loaded with a lot more CC and brings the best get out of jail free card a support could ever ask for.

Braum completely blocks off the enemy from being able to reach the carry for as long as his walls lasts on top of being able to buff their armor, provide multiple stuns based on who he tags, and a massive disengage ult that leaves behind a long line that slows enemies trying to reach his carry.

Nami provides AoE speed buffs, 1.5 sec AoE stun on a basic ability, 3 slows on a single ability, just as many heals as Sona does, and her heals actually end up being stronger and doing damage, and an ult that has more CC than sonas, at longer range and width.

Leona can lock a single target down for 4.5 seconds while enabling additional damage from her passive enduring they die during it.

Blitz is called the god hand for a reason and has what is generally accepted most power basic ability in the game.

I could go on, Sona is far form unique in being loaded with game breaking utility in her kit. She is not even close to overloaded when compared to other supports. If you want to argue she is over tuned you might have some ground to stand on but to suggest she should lose her ult is flat out ignorance of the support position or the champions that play it.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Except unlike most of the champions Sona has ZERO real skillshots in her kit and her entire playstyle is just positioning and basically statsticking everyone on the map due to her AoE boosts. The increased aura range means Sona can just sit way in the back and just sit on top of her backline far from harms way and still be just as useful as if she was melee forming the enemy team.

Thresh, Naut, and Leona all have to land a skilshot to be useful whereas Sona can just sit in the back next to her carries and just spam away and auto any diver with a W/E auto or just straight up point blank ult them.

Martyrofsand1 votes

You are aware "but she doesn't have skillshots" doesn't mean anything right? It doesn't matter the mechanics of how her abilities are delivered as long as the abilities are fair and reasonable. As it stands now her abilities are fine, perhaps a little over tuned on her W and E and the CDR from her R, but overall they are not broken, over loaded, nor do they allow her to provide more than any other support.

You really are not helping your case here.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Honestly they need to just take away most of the power out of the heal on her W and just throw it on the shield because as it stands it is not difficult to heal her entire team up in a relatively short time frame with Grail, Windspeakers, and Censer all buffing her W heal. Also, it isn't like she is going to run out of mana doing this since her build easily pushes 400% mana regen (Censer gives 50%, Grail usually gives 175%, both support items give 75% so that is 300% bonus mana regen right there).

Right now her heal and shield are pushing 55-45 or so with the heal being greater than the shield and honestly putting it closer to 30-70 or even 20-80 would make her much less oppressive (and not just a better Soraka which she 100% is in her current state) since she wouldn't just shrug off all poke late game and would still have noticeable heals since Grail doesn't care what the initial heal is. She would still "mitigate" the same amount of damage, but it would just hit her sustain which is arguably one of her most annoying points since she heals for close to Soraka levels while being much harder to catch/kill (doesn't kill herself, has hard CC, and has a ms steroid).

Martyrofsand1 votes

Sona doesn't normally buy Grail, unless she's just bad, the chalice item she should be going for is Mikaels as with Ruby sightstone you can count on it being up damn near every fight and stopping your carry from being CCed is a big deal.

As for your suggestion about making it more of a shield and saying she is better than Soraka's heals you might have a point only near the late mid to end game when she completes all of her CDR. Yes 45% cdr lvl 16 Sona spams at a stupid degree right now, I won't deny that. I don't think the best way to gait that is to flat out nerf her so much as address the insane amount of mana regen in the support build paths, which I'll give you credit for pointing out. Last game I played with her I had around 15 mana regen per second which is insane on any support. Beyond lvl 16 however no Sona doesn't out heal Soraka, and further more her healing is already being nerfed on the PBE hitting it's late game values while leaving its early game strength which I feel is a reasonable change.

bottledpoop1 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=000b000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-18T00:15:20.614+0000)

Except unlike most of the champions Sona has ZERO real skillshots in her kit and her entire playstyle is just positioning and basically statsticking everyone on the map due to her AoE boosts. The increased aura range means Sona can just sit way in the back and just sit on top of her backline far from harms way and still be just as useful as if she was melee forming the enemy team.

Thresh, Naut, and Leona all have to land a skilshot to be useful whereas Sona can just sit in the back next to her carries and just spam away and auto any diver with a W/E auto or just straight up point blank ult them.

Sona needs to get into aa range to shut down threats. I could just sit back and heal my team but that doesn't mean kha zix wont one shot them. Sona needs to move into range and use a power chord.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

  1. Kha'zix is a bad example because if you are actually standing with your backline he won't get Isolated Q and thus is not one shotting anything (Isolated Q does I believe almost triple regular Q when it is empowered).

  2. Any Diver that is not an assassin like Zed or LeBlanc will not be able to catch your carry if you are just sitting with them since your E Power Chord along with its MS will allow you and your carry to put so much distance between yourselves and their Irelia, Jax, etc. as you just kite them to death. Another option is you simply power chording your W and just outstatting the diver and just face tanking them if it is a 2v1 with your frontline dealing with the rest of their team.

  3. A third scenario with a melee getting on you and your carry is just you ulting them point blank for the easiest stun ever (for instance stunning Irelia while she stuns your carry so her stun means nothing) and then proceeding to just kite the diver with your MS steroid and slow.

bottledpoop1 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=869nnIdA,comment-id=000b00000000000000000000000000020000,timestamp=2016-07-18T03:19:31.650+0000)

  1. Kha'zix is a bad example because if you are actually standing with your backline he won't get Isolated Q and thus is not one shotting anything (Isolated Q does I believe almost triple regular Q when it is empowered).

  2. Any Diver that is not an assassin like Zed or LeBlanc will not be able to catch your carry if you are just sitting with them since your E Power Chord along with its MS will allow you and your carry to put so much distance between yourselves and their Irelia, Jax, etc. as you just kite them to death. Another option is you simply power chording your W and just outstatting the diver and just face tanking them if it is a 2v1 with your frontline dealing with the rest of their team.

  3. A third scenario with a melee getting on you and your carry is just you ulting them point blank for the easiest stun ever (for instance stunning Irelia while she stuns your carry so her stun means nothing) and then proceeding to just kite the diver with your MS steroid and slow.

The point I was trying to make is that sona has to put herself in danger to get her utility off. Ill admit I have no idea how kha'zix works but I know when ever I play against him our team groups up and he just jumps in and kills our adc or at least thats how it seems.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

All supports have a crapton in their kit. This isn't new, they have to be overloaded some where to justify the fact that they often don't get anywhere near the items of other people. It's why Thresh/Leo/Blitz/naut have a ton of CC and tankiness. It's why Raka/Nami heal and sport reasonable CC but do little damage. Sona isn't even near overloaded and she is fine as she is.

Sona has a lot more utility than most supports. But a lot of her utility isn't on-demand. It is through her passive.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Yes and no. She gets a single target slow and a mini-exhaust or additional damage via her power chords. Not bad but when you consider every other support champ has a form of hard CC build into the basic abilities of their kits then I would say it's debatable.

What is strong about Sona is her versatility to the situation. When it comes to peeling for example Janna far surpasses her because enemies who can't get to your carry do far less damage than ones hit by Sona's W power chord. Like wise when it comes to setting up kills enemies caught by Blitz/Thresh/Leona CC chains tend to die far more easily than those hit by Sona's E power chord. While Sona doesn't match those champs in that same regard she makes up for by having weaker forms of both and being able to adapt based on what the situation requires.

It used to be "jack of all trades master of none" philosophy but the problem was it was so weak she couldn't do anything. Now she has been buffed considerably both directly and indirectly through items. I don't mind the light nerfs they did on the PBE, hitting her E move speed and W late game healing, but what I don't want to see on her is the treatment Sej got with Cinderhulk in which they gutted sej and then gutted Cinderhulk and left Sej in the trash. Light nerf Sona, address the insane amount of mana regen in support build paths as another way of limiting her spamming and let's see where she sits then.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

Yes and no. She gets a single target slow and a mini-exhaust or additional damage via her power chords. Not bad but when you consider every other support champ has a form of hard CC build into the basic abilities of their kits then I would say it's debatable.

And that is why her utility is so hard to compare to other supports. A 25% damage reduction for 3 seconds is potentially very strong. But as you said it is not on her basic ability. She can't simply press W to use it like Lulu can to polymorph an enemy. But on paper she does have a lot of utility.

What is strong about Sona is her versatility to the situation. When it comes to peeling for example Janna far surpasses her because enemies who can't get to your carry do far less damage than ones hit by Sona's W power chord. Like wise when it comes to setting up kills enemies caught by Blitz/Thresh/Leona CC chains tend to die far more easily than those hit by Sona's E power chord. While Sona doesn't match those champs in that same regard she makes up for by having weaker forms of both and being able to adapt based on what the situation requires.

Very true.

It used to be "jack of all trades master of none" philosophy but the problem was it was so weak she couldn't do anything. Now she has been buffed considerably both directly and indirectly through items. I don't mind the light nerfs they did on the PBE, hitting her E move speed and W late game healing, but what I don't want to see on her is the treatment Sej got with Cinderhulk in which they gutted sej and then gutted Cinderhulk and left Sej in the trash. Light nerf Sona, address the insane amount of mana regen in support build paths as another way of limiting her spamming and let's see where she sits then.

The chances of that happening in one way or another are unfortunately quite high. Riot's wave of items that provide added healing/shielding power is going to cause something to break down eventually. Either they are going to nerf multiple champions or nerf the items or both. I can't see them allowing such strong heals in the late game even though damage is so high late game they should be as strong as they are. Either way we know for sure Sona is getting nerfed.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

It used to be "jack of all trades master of none" philosophy but the problem was it was so weak she couldn't do anything. Now she has been buffed considerably both directly and indirectly through items. I don't mind the light nerfs they did on the PBE, hitting her E move speed and W late game healing, but what I don't want to see on her is the treatment Sej got with Cinderhulk in which they gutted sej and then gutted Cinderhulk and left Sej in the trash. Light nerf Sona, address the insane amount of mana regen in support build paths as another way of limiting her spamming and let's see where she sits then.

I just noticed on PBE that the passive on the Censer and the Crucible is now going unique meaning they won't stack. It looks like her heal is going to get double nerfed.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Glad to see they are at least addressing something on the items, although I still think mana regen would of been the better spot to go. That said I still feel people will build both as Mikaels+Ruby Sightstone is stupid good for keeping your carry alive and Censer atk speed and on hit is way to good on a number of the top carries seeing play now.

The nerf to Sona's heal doesn't bother me so much, they left it pretty much untouched for the majority of the laning phase since most times you don't get a 2nd point in it till level 8 or so, and at that point it's all of 5 health per heal 10 if you include both targets. I'm also fine with the move speed nerfs, they are not very drastic and with the AP scaling she will still get a respectable amount of move speed while building support items.

Hopfully this will tone down some of the hate for her, fat chance I know but I can dream, and Riot will leave her in a spot that doesn't make her a handicap on whichever team picks her.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by KONO RUBICK DA

How about You Code your Game before doing Big changes?
Gameplay125 comments
159
votes
@Meddler, i found an interesting quote of you when you replaced morello in 2014
Gameplay135 comments
158
votes
ADC mains lie, but don't worry i'll tell you
Gameplay162 comments
157
votes
Old Master tier player leaving after 1 game of dynamic queue
Gameplay122 comments
152
votes
I'm going to destroy the ENTIRE board with a single thread
Gameplay375 comments
139
votes
Vayne Reached the Late game
Gameplay109 comments
138
votes