Daily reminder that we still don't have +3 refunds per season despite getting over 6000 upvotes

rayzo·Aug 18, 2018·41 votes·15,030 views

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/YEa8tMs0-3-refunds-per-season-upvote-if-you-want-3-refunds-per-season

Come on Riot. what about those of us that used our refunds right away and then bought the champions later anyway? WE WANT REFUNDS!!!

55 Comments

EedatAug 18, 201824 votes

Reminder that its never going to happen

rayzoAug 18, 201810 votes

Reminder that everyone wants it and Riot doesn't care

EedatAug 18, 201815 votes

Reminder that just because I want 10 free skins does not mean I am entitled to have them just because

Child of the PitAug 18, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Reminder that just because I want 10 free skins does not mean I am entitled to have them just because

However, gifting 10 skins will hurt Riot games income, giving at least one refund a year will not cost them anything, people will keep the Riot points they purchased, and Riot the money they used for those Riot points, the Riot points which they will spend on something else, till something comes out that they want then, which means they have to purchase new Riot points as they already used their last refund.

TempName54846Aug 18, 20186 votes

if you could trade out your old pants for new ones for free 3 times a year you would probably still buy pants yes but the company still loses money lmao

Child of the PitAug 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

if you could trade out your old pants for new ones for free 3 times a year you would probably still buy pants yes but the company still loses money lmao

You can't really compare those things, pants take production cost, but a skin not, it is made for the community, if you buy a skin, there isn't only thing one skin, it is digital, there are unlimited, and if you return it, there isn't something like gigabyte or shit they are missing, unlike the production meterial of a pant

TempName54846Aug 18, 20184 votes

the actual production cost of the pants is completely irrelevant compared to the marketing, hosting, designing and everything else that goes into the products. it might not look like riot puts money into skins but they definitely do "but they aren't missing anything if they give it out", it costs them sales which is, ya know, money.

Fermi ParadoxAug 19, 20183 votes

but still, the moment you refund that skin, Riot doesn't lose anything. You already spent money and got your Riot Points. There is no difference if you hoard your RP, spend them, spend them and then refund them and spend them again, or just spend them, refund them and THEN hoard them. They already have your money no matter what you do with your RP.

TempName54846Aug 19, 20181 votes

"if your old shitty pants have enough material to create new pants out of them the company loses nothing if they give you new ones in returns for them, you already gave the company your money and it doesn't matter to them if you hoard your money afterwards or not"

i mean it really shouldn't be that hard to understand that you are more likely to buy new shit when your old shit is of lesser quality.

Fermi ParadoxAug 19, 20181 votes

but it's not like you can easily refund anything you've ever bought. You can only refund stuff you bought in the last 90 days, so no, you won't refund your old pants just because there is a new and better version of them because this won't happen in the next 90 days. So people would still buy "new shit" while being able to refund that "new shit" if it doesn't correspond with their idea of what they bought.

TempName54846Aug 19, 20181 votes

so what you are suggesting is that refunds would be timed and you could only refund something for a while after buying it? eh i could actually see that being a thing.

Fermi ParadoxAug 19, 20181 votes

I'm not suggesting things, it's already like that. The limit is 90 days :)

fƒ15Aug 19, 20181 votes

the only important reply

JamareeAug 18, 201818 votes

It really should be at least one more refund for year.

LTK KoRoAug 18, 20189 votes

Do we really need refunds in age of Skin Spotlights and other kind of stuff like that?

Spank the FoxAug 19, 20182 votes

Refunds are just for abuse, like “Oh, I want to upgrade this skin to the newer skin because the one I have is 2 years old”

If Riot fucks up or drastically changes a skin from what you’ve purchased, they should just have the good will to manually apply a refund/exchange.

WyrmbladeAug 19, 20183 votes

Yes because we're also in the age of constant champion updates making significant changes to skins that people have already bought.

Tomoe GozenAug 20, 20181 votes

Riot announces reworks months ahead of time so that you can't make such a mistake anymore. And if you're using your refunds to refund a year's old purchase, then it's clearly abusing the system. You've already gotten a lot of mileage out of a specific champion and now that you don't like the new direction, you decide to hit the "give me my money back" button.

So let's say that you don't ever use that champion but now the rework hits and you want a refund. That's still abusing the system since you clearly were fine sitting on a piece of content that you don't use for years and now you've seen an opportunity to get your investment back.

That's not how it works. When a new car model comes out 10 years after you've bought yours, you can't go to your retailer and ask for your money back so that you can buy a new one with just a few additional payments. And if i'm going to continue this metaphor, this doesn't even fully apply to the case or reworked champions you own since your old car model basically turns into the new model, free of charge. Riot's not demanding any additional payments for replacing old content with new. And they don't even bump up the prices of these reworks just because they're new. Their BE/RP prices remain the same.

SwiftKitten88Aug 18, 20188 votes

umm, as much as i want this myself...

of course it has upvotes.

"upvote if u want free stuff"

i mean who WOULDN'T upvote that?

Child of the PitAug 18, 20187 votes

{quoted}

umm, as much as i want this myself...

of course it has upvotes.

"upvote if u want free stuff"

i mean who WOULDN'T upvote that?

It isn't free stuff if you don't keep it.

PhDs NutsAug 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

umm, as much as i want this myself...

of course it has upvotes.

"upvote if u want free stuff"

i mean who WOULDN'T upvote that?

The refund gives you RP/BE back. You can't refund RP for money. Your money is already spent. It's not free stuff.

Andrey0345Aug 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The refund gives you RP/BE back. You can't refund RP for money. Your money is already spent. It's not free stuff.

But it makes you spend less because you didn't like something you already spent money on and bought something you wanted instead. With nobody having refunds we will have to only buy extra RP to buy what we want. If everyone had tons of refunds, they would just change old skins for new ones and never buy rp, or play with a skin, refund and buy something else.

I really see no point in them as they are normally should be used if you messed up and bought wrong skin or you changed your mind about the buy. That's why they are refunds.

koshkyraAug 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

umm, as much as i want this myself...

of course it has upvotes.

"upvote if u want free stuff"

i mean who WOULDN'T upvote that?

Right? Idk why people are downvoting you, jt's the truth.

Its like going on twitter and saying "Kim Kardashian should give us all of her money, rt if you agree" and then calling her a bitch when you get 10,000 retweets and she doesnt listen.

The EcdysiastAug 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

umm, as much as i want this myself...

of course it has upvotes.

"upvote if u want free stuff"

i mean who WOULDN'T upvote that?

Stuff you refunded that you still didn't actually get the currency back for =/= free stuff

TNHA BaritoneAug 18, 20188 votes

I doubt it would ever happen as they've made their stance clear. But if it did, I'd imagine Riot would do it similar to this:

You have to be honor 5
Can only refund whatever was purchased in the year you received the refund.
You don't receive additional RP/BE if you refund champions that you have skins for or skins that you have chromas for
One per season
Expires if not used within a specified time period
Also, any other nonconflicting default rules that current refunds have

Child of the PitAug 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=TNHA Baritone,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=852ewd1b,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-18T17:57:04.836+0000)

I doubt it would ever happen as they've made their stance clear. But if it did, I'd imagine Riot would do it similar to this:

You have to be honor 5

Can only refund whatever was purchased in the year you received the refund.

You don't receive additional RP/BE if you refund champions that you have skins for or skins that you have chromas for

One per season

Expires if not used within a specified time period

Also, any other nonconflicting default rules that current refunds have

It should just expire in a year so people cannot stack them.

DrCyanideAug 18, 20185 votes

I can't remember where it was mentioned, but Riot basically asked people if they'd rather get free skins or more refunds - and free skins won out. Thus the Hextech Crafting system was born instead of more refunds.

Put that way, I agree with the decision. Yes, I only have one refund left, but I can get skins I otherwise wouldn't have spent money on.

rayzoAug 18, 20182 votes

so far over an 8 month period i have exactly 3 skins I have got from hextech crafting. 3 WHOLE SKINS OMG

DrCyanideAug 18, 20181 votes

And over that 8 month period how many refunds would you have preferred to use? I don't think it would have been 3 or more.

You gained more from having the Hextech crafting system in place than you would have gained with more refunds.

rayzoAug 18, 20182 votes

i wanted to refund urgot, syndra, leblanc, and evelynn when i had already used all my refunds

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 18, 20183 votes

They’ve made their stance clear

LordKentravyonAug 18, 20183 votes

If you need that many refunds you need to be more careful about what you buy

I started mid season 3 One refund used. I accidentally bought Cho with rp instead of IP

Akali is SO HOTAug 19, 20181 votes

Same. I played Ezeral a few games before realizing I bought him with RP and refunded. Used my second refund when Frostblade Irelia went on sale like a week after I purchased it for full price so I could get some RP back.

Tomoe GozenAug 19, 20183 votes

Riot explained this already a long time ago in ASK RIOT post:

Q: Why are refunds capped at three per account? Would you ever raise the limit?

A: League of Legends content is intended to be permanent. However we want players to feel good about the content they purchase, so we developed the refund feature to give every player a solution for those rare situations where they purchase content and quickly regret it, and are sure that they will never want to use that content in the future. Many players have never used their refunds, while others have used one, two, or three of them over time.

We established a limit of three refunds and still believe that is the right number (this gives players leeway to refund purchases but also protects the overall system from abuse). We’ve explored granting more refunds at times, but discovered that the majority of players would prefer free content instead, so each year we have steadily increased the amount of content players receive just for playing the game. Refunds and free content both come at considerable cost to Riot, so we have to carefully focus on which to prioritize to deliver value to players and protect our ability to operate as a business.

That said, while we have no current plans to issue more refund tokens in 2017, it is something we will continue to explore in the future as more players hit the three refund cap.

HIPPALUS eCommerce Director

PaladinNOAug 20, 20181 votes

A: League of Legends content is intended to be permanent.

Which it isn't, considering reworks and updates. Which it isn't again, if reading their own EULA.

However we want players to feel good about the content they purchase

Again, considering reworks and updates, for which they won't give refunds even if they aren't happy,

Tomoe GozenAug 20, 20181 votes

League content is permanent.
All champions that are made will always exist until the game dies, one day. Whether you consider reworks/updates to old champs different content or not, is irrelevant.

Which means that if you purchased that Nunu and a few of his skins in the land before time and you don't like his new direction, Riot's not going to reimburse you because you invested in him years ago. Meanwhile, Riot used to refund people for announced reworks when they first started but the amount of requests they had to go through would always overwhelm the support. They decided to announce them months ahead of time so that people who aren't sure they want to invest in a champion and their skins, know ahead of time changes to that specific champion are coming.

PaladinNOAug 20, 20181 votes

Meanwhile, Tencent used to refund people for announced reworks

I know. They stopped after Karthus' rework.

Pika FoxAug 20, 20181 votes

See, i dont get this argument. If you buy RP, they already got the money. If they refund your RP purchase, youre just getting back RP, something already paid for. As long as you arent buying, using, then refunding to get something else, using, refunding etc, theres no real claim to a loss in sales.

MrFawknSunshineAug 19, 20182 votes

i know people want this. but it dont benefit riot at all by giving refunds

sir d wreckAug 19, 20182 votes

Daily reminder that no one actually makes daily reminders and keeps actually doing it daily.

Al HavocAug 19, 20182 votes

3 refunds per season is way to much, you need to understand riot is a company that needs to make money. if 10 million people refund 3 skins per year, that's effectively around 30m dollars...... Just an estimate and example, obviously not exact numbers; but come on people, you are asking for even more free shit, as if we don't already get a free game and free stuff through hextech crafting.

I believe 1 skin refund per year and 1 champion refund would be suffice or at least 3 refunds(of each) for everyone now, and no more till people start bitching again 6 years or so from now.

LegitBusinessmanAug 19, 20182 votes

I think the real issue if anyone is actually spending money on RP after this atrocity of a season. They don't deserve money. You'll live without skins.

PaladinNOAug 20, 20181 votes

Username checks out.

MordepoolAug 19, 20182 votes

It's a dumb idea. Bankrupt the company and there wont be anymore seasons

BlackOnyxAltearAug 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's a dumb idea. Bankrupt the company and there wont be anymore seasons

Bankrupting the company how? You are getting the rp back, rp that you spent money on already, money that riot gets to keep.

please think before making nonsensical statements like that.

Tomoe GozenAug 20, 20181 votes

Giving a player a ton of refund tokens allows them to experience more content than possible by investing into something and taking it back, only to try something else. You shouldn't buy RP if you're not ready to commit to a purchase. Refund tokens were meant to erase a thoughtless mistake, not allow players to cycle through a ton of content before they eventually settle for the one skin they really, really want.

Besides, PBE exists for a reason. You can still try skins there.

BlackOnyxAltearAug 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=852ewd1b,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2018-08-20T02:08:06.919+0000)

Giving a player a ton of refund tokens allows them to experience more content than possible by investing into something and taking it back, only to try something else. You shouldn't buy RP if you're not ready to commit to a purchase. Refund tokens were meant to erase a thoughtless mistake, not allow players to cycle through a ton of content before they eventually settle for the one skin they really, really want.

Besides, PBE exists for a reason. You can still try skins there.

How again is this going to bankrupt the company. Even if by the grace of god riot decided to give refund tokens they would: A: give a limited amount per player, most likely 1-3 B: limit what content you can refun, they sure as hell wont let me refund those 3 hecarim skins i bought 3 years ago now will they? it will most likely be content i bought the same year i got the tokens. C: people will use the rp on stuff they want, the whole reason people want refunds is so they can use rp elsewhere, no one wants to hoard it on their account. D: riot will likely make it so not everyone can get a refund token as some have already stated(have x honor lvl etc.)

A BepiAug 20, 20182 votes

Certainlyt is still designing and reworking champions, what makes u think they will do that? Riot at this point doesnt care about the community but pro play.

KrytoricAug 19, 20181 votes

I dont care if we get more refunds or not, but it would be nice.

2 of mine were used on Reverse Annie, and Annie - changed my mind and re-bought Annie, then my friend mystery gifted me reverse Annie in the same day. so i pretty much started this account with 1 refund lol (which i think i used on Jayce)

PaladinNOAug 20, 20181 votes

3 refunds per season? No, too many. People can blame themselves for refunding Annie, Soraka and Sivir. But 1 refund per season? Like a Christmas gift or something? Yes, I think they should.

I still got 2 refunds left myself. And the one I did spend was done under careful consideration.