You get an additional reroll each match if you pay for the pass
so that means you literally have more control over others at who you're going to play and a higher %chance of getting a champ you're decent with
; this shouldn't be a feature, I don't care what y'al're replacing it with if anything, just not that specific thing
also i said 'y'al're'
usul120212 votesY'all're has 2 l's, FWIW.
As far as the pass, idk. On one hand, your chance of getting op shit is the exact same as usual, with the same chance of getting useless shit. On the other, it does provide a safety net against rolling bad shit that non payers don't have. It's not something that really irks me on its own, but anything much further would probably get my goat.
Hammermancer4 votesY'all're has 2 l's, FWIW.
Upvote for you
As far as the pass, idk. On one hand, your chance of getting op shit is the exact same as usual, with the same chance of getting useless shit. On the other, it does provide a safety net against rolling bad shit that non payers don't have. It's not something that really irks me on its own, but anything much further would probably get my goat.
But they crossed the line in principal and This is the time to speak out, not if or when they start doing MMR boost passes or some shit
usul12021 votesAs I said, I don't think this crosses that line for me. It toes it, but because you are paying for a chance at something better (or worse!) with no actual affect on the individual probabilities of getting it or anything in game, what you're effectively paying for is a dodge without inconveniencing everyone or your queue disable. As of now, I'll hold my outrage for something that crosses my line (like being able to select "preferred champs" or something. That'd be bullshit)
Hammermancer1 votesAs I said, I don't think this crosses that line for me. It toes it, but because you are paying for a chance at something better (or worse!) with no actual affect on the individual probabilities of getting it or anything in game, what you're effectively paying for is a dodge without inconveniencing everyone or your queue disable. As of now, I'll hold my outrage for something that crosses my line (like being able to select "preferred champs" or something. That'd be bullshit)
I really wouldn't put it past them to monetize urf
SociaI Justice1 voteswith no actual affect on the individual probabilities of getting it
i don't think you know how probabilities work, getting to flip the coin 3 times against 2 when you want to get heads obviously increases the odds of you getting heads. "bu-but you still have a 50% chance of getting tails on that flip so it doesn't affect the odds!" yeah no.
usul12021 votesOn individual probabilities. I don't think you know how that word works.
That is an important word there. You have the exact same chance of flipping and getting heads on each individual flip. In a binary system it would be broken. League has so many champs that your only true gain system is when you're rerolling from your least favorite.
Yes you could bias this by only owning 2 op champs.... But that biases it without the reroll system too.
SociaI Justice1 votesuhuh, so what you're saying is that there are so many champions in the game that having more rerolls doesn't give you the advantage? so if i had 300 rerolls and you had 1 it wouldn't matter because it's only a true gain for me when i reroll the worst champion.
making the numbers bigger or smaller is usually a good way to see how ridiculous your argument is, rolling a random number between 1 and a 100 for how many times you get punched in the face is still advantageous for you to have more rerolls in despite the result of the rerolls ability to get positive or negative 99% of the time.
usul12021 votesWhat I'm saying is that because of the scope of the system, rerolling more times will tend to push you towards an average champ. There being a limit of 2 even with the pass (same as someone without) means your limit does not increase by paying money. Yes you have more chances to get a strong champion, however you also have more chances to get a weak one and cannot reroll more times per lobby than a non-payer, only more times overall. Due to the inherent risk of rerolling in a limited situation and getting a bad champ, your 300 reroll example doesn't fit the situation.
Anyone who is in a situation where 1 reroll will statistically give them an advantageous champion is already biasing the system far far more by limiting their champ pool. If paying money is less of an advantage than you can get simply by being a cheapskate with your champ buys (hello aram only accounts) then it doesn't cross my line for pay to win, in most situations.
SociaI Justice1 votesif you have to roll a dice to get punched in the face 1-100 times if you have 0 rerolls you will statistically be okay with getting punched 50 times, if you have 1 anything bellow 40 is fine for you, if you have 2 anything bellow 30 is fine, getting an extra reroll saves you about 10 times of getting punched in the face and i'd say that's pretty pay to win famalam. but sure rocky over there spend his life getting used to getting punched in the face and might just beat the 200 kg 8 ft giants ass him self so its not pay to win because he can just get away with less for free right.
usul12021 votesIt does make things better, it is not pay to win. I'm not sure if you've ever played a pay to win game before, but there, paying money gives you benefits others straight do not. It would be like making karthus only unlockable for cash. By paying, you unlock content that non payers do not. I would count this as pay for safety net and not pay to win solely because the 2 reroll limit was maintained. It does not give you access to a modified champ pool, youre able to reroll more off of bad champs, but your likelyhood of rerolling with an above average champ will still be usually worse than what you had. It creates a safety net.
It's an opinion where your line is though, and I'm getting the feeling we're never going to agree on where that is. If you're not a fan of the pass, don't buy it (I won't be). If you adamantly hate it, boycott the game for its duration and speak with your playtime. Riot is a business based in a capitalistic country after all.
SociaI Justice1 votesi mean idgaf about any of that i just find it odd that someone thinks that having more rerolls isn't an advantage. its an advantage that you cannot receive without paying for it, i don't know what's pay to win to you if that isn't, sure it's not a massive advantage but its literally the definition of pay to win.
usul12021 votesBecause the advantage is not guaranteed, or anything a non-payer can't get! I get a free reroll every game, sometimes 2 because I own a lot of champs. So not only is the roll going to be unhelpful 50% of the time (more cause I'm garbage on a lot of champs lol) but it legit wouldn't provide me with anything most of the time. It's not pay to win if it's not providing anything special, it's pay for convenience. As I said a bunch, if it gave you access to more than the 2 rolls provided to everyone, it would be problematic. It does not. An advantage? Sure, sometimes it will save you from a bad champ. But especially because games are not won and lost in champ select, it's not pay to win.
SociaI Justice1 votesits not something a non payer can get, runes and champions were something non payers could get but this is an advantage you can only get by paying. pay for convenience is paying for something free players can get by grinding or something that doesn't correlate to you winning. league of legends isn't a grind game and this is something that will help you sometimes, sometimes not correlating to you winning a higher percentage of games, no matter how small the percentage is it is still literally the definition of pay to win.
But especially because games are not won and lost in champ select, it's not pay to win.
it must be nice playing at your elo.
usul12021 votesYes it is. It's exactly what a non player gets. It's a reroll, which is earned by playing games. You get 1 extra per game, but it can NOT exceed the 2 reroll max that we normally have. So especially if you own like, over half the champs it doesn't actually give you anything in game.
And you're P1, I'm d4. It's the same rank + a win streak.
SociaI Justice1 votesyou don't get 2 rerolls per game even if you own literally every champion so it is always an advantage. you don't seem to realize that league of legends is all about the win ratio of games played, being able to use the same amount of rerolls in 2 games as payers get to use in one isn't equivalent in any way, it's like saying if they made it so people that buy a summoner spell pass can use summs every game while f2ps can use them every 2 games.
it is a fun mode and the example is a lot more extreme than what they are doing n all that good jazz but by principle this is exactly what pay to win means and you really can't argue against that fact.
SociaI Justice1 votesoh yeah i forgot, even dopa said that he can tell which team is going to win in champion select 90% of the time. knowing when to dodge based on champions and team comps is an extremely valuable skill for boosters which they become very good at.
usul12021 votesAnd, at the very top of challenger, that's definitely doable. In fucking urf? Lolno
Cheini2 votesYes it is. It's exactly what a non player gets. It's a reroll, which is earned by playing games. You get 1 extra per game, but it can NOT exceed the 2 reroll max that we normally have. So especially if you own like, over half the champs it doesn't actually give you anything in game.
And you're P1, I'm d4. It's the same rank + a win streak.
usul, if you get >1 reroll per game, you will be able to choose between 3 champions per game with the pass, unlike 2 without it, letting you reroll both 
and 
if you get <1 (but are not a completely new player), one game you'd will have 1 reroll - vs 0; then - 3 rerolls - vs 1; next 5 rerolls (so 3 free/used) - vs 2.. this is, 8 champions - vs 5 without a pass
if you have nearly no champions yet.. i think you know where this is going. xd And, given that one plays better with certain charas and some are straight op/nightmare to play, it is p2w..
usul12021 votesYes you get more rerolls than without. However, because this does not guarantee an advantage, is a mechanic you get without paying, and you get a far larger advantage through free methods (not buying Ivern and quinn), a free player can have a massively higher win chance than a paying player even with the absolutely wrong assumption that champ select desides the game, and if you top out both the difference would be negligible due to the number of champs in league and the closeness of the top champs. So while it does create a safety net advantage from ivern/quinn, it does not fit the description of pay to win.
(nice formatting tho, I like the colors)
Hammermancer1 votesYes you get more rerolls than without. However, because this does not guarantee an advantage, is a mechanic you get without paying, and you get a far larger advantage through free methods (not buying Ivern and quinn), a free player can have a massively higher win chance than a paying player even with the absolutely wrong assumption that champ select desides the game, and if you top out both the difference would be negligible due to the number of champs in league and the closeness of the top champs. So while it does create a safety net advantage from ivern/quinn, it does not fit the description of pay to win.
(nice formatting tho, I like the colors)
Dude it literally creates a %increase of gaining access to a champion that is overtuned for urf, something you're good at, or something your teammate is good at
Lets say you land reksai amd reroll him with your base reroll getting zed, you suck at zed so you reroll again and get orianna (very strong in urf) meanwhile there is a zed otp who picks up your zed
usul12021 votesAnd I have the option of doing that without the pass, albeit less frequently. It is an advantage, in the form of a safety net. It is not pay to win because A: it is no guaranteed advantage. B: it is not anything a non payer does kot have access to. And C: I could increase my win rate by an unbelievably higher amount by playing an "aram only" account with ori, hec, karth, and just the op champs, and never need a reroll. When free options are literally orders of magnitude more effective at generating advantageous situations, you're not paying to win, you're paying for convenience.
Done259 votesI am so sick of these passes. Give it a break Riot. I mean a literal break. I'm burnt out by so much token grinding.
Sukishoo2 votesThe URF pass doesn't give you anything like that though, so you don't need to bother :P
Plus like it's been said, you buying them is why they keep making em.
Daddy Ants8 votesI'm not buying it.
I hate URF so I will not be spending my money on it.
usul12021 votesSame. It kills me that most of my friends I play with love urf so I kinda fly solo whenever it's up. Good time to get some soloq practice in I guess.
Votable Jester1 votesI love URF, so I'll just have to beat the Zeds and Ezreals with other stuff.
Warlord Rhinark4 votesOh god not another Pass.
I guess this is just standard procedure from now on?
Oleandervine2 votesThis isn't like the other passes. Here's what it is below. I personally find it an UTTER WASTE of money.
_Golden Spatula Club (1250 RP) - This is a new club membership that lasts for the duration of the event. Joining grants you: 1 random individual skin boost every game 1 additional reroll each game (max allowed is still 2) 3 new randomized champion finishers (The more people on your team that are members, the fancier your finishers will be!) Special minion taunts _
Myrmiron4 votesThis isn't like the other passes. Here's what it is below. I personally find it an UTTER WASTE of money.
_Golden Spatula Club (1250 RP) - This is a new club membership that lasts for the duration of the event. Joining grants you: 1 random individual skin boost every game 1 additional reroll each game (max allowed is still 2) 3 new randomized champion finishers (The more people on your team that are members, the fancier your finishers will be!) Special minion taunts _
Classic season 9 Riot Game(s). What a shitfest.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesThis isn't like the other passes. Here's what it is below. I personally find it an UTTER WASTE of money.
_Golden Spatula Club (1250 RP) - This is a new club membership that lasts for the duration of the event. Joining grants you: 1 random individual skin boost every game 1 additional reroll each game (max allowed is still 2) 3 new randomized champion finishers (The more people on your team that are members, the fancier your finishers will be!) Special minion taunts _
Oh thank goodness, it's just in-game things and not permanent items.
Oleandervine1 votesEh, for $10, I need something permanent, be it some kind of Hextech capsule to open or a ward skin.
Votable Jester2 votesIt still makes people more likely to win the mode, which I think is BS.
LTK KoRo4 votesOh no, my already unbalanced matches on an unbalanced gamemode will be even more unbalanced due to buyable extra reroll.
I don't think it'll be noticeable in game tbh
Nea1041 votesYou mean, it can't suck more? :P
Votable Jester1 votesI mean, Zed already shows up too much in it. This will just make that worse.
Wish they would just get rid of the AR part though, it's just annoying. The game would be on even footing and I could play the champs I actually like. I own almost every champ in the game, so the odds of me playing the champs I enjoy is stupidly low at this point.
Bears Dont Care3 votesYou guys wouldn't know p2w if it came up and bit you.
wolf jade2 votesNo y0u do not. you can get rerolls for free.
Hammermancer20 votes[{quoted}](name=wolf jade,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=832wohPA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-09T19:43:38.595+0000)
No y0u do not. you can get rerolls for free.
And you get an extra reroll each match for buying the pass, read it. Sure they've restricted it to not break the 2 rr cap but still
it affects the game by paying money
wolf jade4 votesi did read it, but you know. you can still get if for free = not pay to win
Tahminatrix 4 votes[{quoted}](name=wolf jade,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=832wohPA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-09T20:09:39.155+0000)
i did read it, but you know. you can still get if for free = not pay to win
You only get rerolls by playing aaram, meaning by paying to get 1 extra reroll per match increases the amount of rerolls available to you per match while other players will all be more than likely to be stuck with 1 if that.
But its more of a luxury than a serious advantage over other players who you will only be in one match against.
KFCeytron9 votes[{quoted}](name=wolf jade,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=832wohPA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-09T20:09:39.155+0000)
i did read it, but you know. you can still get if for free = not pay to win
You can still crit for free, so a +20% crit chance pass = not pay to win.
AIQ1 votesYou are right, but I don't think you are considering the fact that players with a higher champion pool get this same advantage.
Personally I am granted 1 RR per game regardless of how many I used. Periodically it builds up to 2 depending on how far off I was. Meaning I almost always have 2 RRs Which is an "advantage" over players with a smaller champion pool.
I also have access to all the OPs unlike someone that does not own Zed for instance.
So what I'm getting at is it pay to win? Technically yes. Is it significant enough to matter? No
Side note players with small pools have a higher chance of getting OPs they own so.... theres that... bAlANcE.
Cheini1 votesOh dear what have they...
Yes. See... My first reaction was that "The more people on your team that are members, the fancier your finishers will be!" is bordering ethics (still on the right side, however!).. and didn't pay much attention to the rerolls.
No matter how high or low the chances are, this is p2w. And this is unfair. Let's hope more people realize it! '-.-
IcyPepper1 votesMore like Gamble to Win, which is practically a double whammy.
Meritas1 votesThe funny thing is that it might as well turn into Pay2Lose, depending on your luck, lol. [sg-miss-fortune]
Votable Jester1 votesYeah but that's kinda like saying Vayne having shorter Q cd isn't necessarily a buff because so many of them tumble into death. [vayne-pose]
Really a better comparison would be having the ability to flash an extra time, but it flashes in a random direction. Sometimes that's death, but if you just use it when in a shit position it's a gamebreaking advantage.
5050BS1 votesThis would explain how an Enemy team got 
all on the same team
