Literally WTF are Rakan's AP ratios!?

chipndip1··36 votes·12,171 views

His heal has a 70% AP ratio.

His shield on E? 80%.

His passive!? FUCKING NINETY

Worst part? item 3107 No one's gonna use them item 3190

98 Comments

xJLx MCHammer32 votes

Lol He has HIGH cooldowns

Don't worry though. Riot just wants them to be played as a duo a few times on pro and casual scene before they bring oit the nerf stick.

I got a feeling that they will be a mord

chipndip15 votes

His Q does scale down to 6 seconds at level 9. That's basically Sona's W after level 16. Still, his cds are pretty up there.

My real point is that it'd be so fun if one could reasonably use these scalings. It's basically wasted power.

Jet Sett2 votes

It's gonna be for the mild AP support build. Like the actual support that build some AP items that usually also have utility on top of the utility items they buy.

Matezoide13 votes

Honestly, i dont see them leaving Rakan weak. He is a super mobile support with a shit ton of CC (Including an AoE knock up), he is one of the flashiest designs in a pretty long time.

If anything, Xayah will be left in the trash, while Rakan will man-slut it up with Lucian in the LCS.

Votable Jester6 votes

His offensive ratios are all 50%, so it is purely defensive at least. Plus he'd still build Redemption and Locket because they are way more reliable and hit the whole team. His Q heal may as well only hit one ally, and his E can at most get 2 allies. His passive is only on himself, and it's not like he's a damage threat.

Also because he's going to build redemption and locket, he won't get much ap until late in the game, so the AP ratios won't matter as much.

chipndip11 votes

My point here is: What's the point of these ratios if we're all building resistances anyway? There's literally no point to it when everyone's building HP/Armor/MR/Mana Regen all the time. It's a waste...even if it could have been fun.

Votable Jester5 votes

Maybe it's to encourage more interesting builds? This way he can make more use from AP/utility items like Ardent Censer, Zeke's Harbinger, and even Hextech GLP. It also encourages using the Frost support line rather than the coin, thus further encouraging aggressive laning.

Slythion9 votes

Defense is the best Offence

it's why Janna has been the best support for ages, she's been low-key op for seasons but because she doesn't delete anyone, no one recognizes her as a legitimate threat.

The same will happen with Rakan

Myrkrvaldyr3 votes

A good Janna is extremely annoying and some victories only happen because of her, but it's true, because she deletes no one in SR they let her slide. AP Janna in ARAM is strong, though.

Bârd6 votes

It's the same reason Amumu has high ratios.

It's so that the ratios feel impactful with the little bit of AP he DOES get.

Thilmer1 votes

{quoted}

It's the same reason Amumu has high ratios.

It's so that the ratios feel impactful with the little bit of AP he DOES get.

Except tan Rakan won't build full tank, and probably he will build full AP. So is not the same at all.

Jet Sett2 votes

Except Rakan won't be able to build full AP without dropping the support items his team will need.

item 3069 Doesn't give AP, if he opts for item 3092 He won't get AP from item 2045 item 3107 Doesn't give AP item 3190 Doesn't give AP. There are some AP support items, and that's what his ratios have in mind, but he won't build full AP while being a support.

Voluug131 votes

If he goes support.

His kit is really suited for midlane in an old karma/zilean way.

Bârd3 votes

What?

How the fuck is he suited for mid?

His Q only hits one unit, so he can't waveclear without blowing his escape.

His E can't be self cast, so it is a dead skill until mid game unless your jungler is nearby.

His base damages are all mediocre, and none of his damaging ratios are particularly impressive (all of them are only 50% AP).

If he gets a lot of AP/AS/CDR, I can definitely see him being irritating in the late game by spamming Q heals and constantly refreshing his passive, but he has no tools to lane with, so he is highly unlikely to GET to that point.

Even if he DOES get there, most of the value he gets from those items is durability. He would do a fair amount of damage, but not even close to what any other mid would do.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

Yes, because Rakan has giant range and decent innate Armor/MR/Health so he can afford not building much defense. Kappa. The truth is I find it bullshitty, but I see no reason why we should complain about Rakan when nearly every AP Tank-ish champ has it similar.

Bârd1 votes

item 2301 item 3107 item 3190 item 3158 item 3504 item 3800

OH SHIT SO MUCH AP

Thilmer1 votes

{quoted}

item 2301 item 3107 item 3190 item 3158 item 3504 item 3800

OH SHIT SO MUCH AP

I seriously doubt Rakan will use that build.

chipndip11 votes

Even Thresh/Braum use this build. Even Zyra/Malz can be found with this build. Why wouldn't Rakan?

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

200 AP +40% bonus shielding and he will shield for 500

meanwhile janna

Asayake 5150glow3 votes

{quoted}

His heal has a 70% AP ratio.

His shield on E? 80%.

His passive!? FUCKING NINETY

Worst part? item 3107 No one's gonna use them item 3190

Galio says hi. It's a wonder he isn't built full AP all the time - oh wait, it's because he doesn't have to, and has plenty of damage with item 3027 item 3001 item 3068 item 3025

Yeah Riot has been doing some weird shit lately. I'm scared to see the tank rework happen - the item rework seems a failure too, that Banshees/Abyssal? And already on their 3rd version of Randuins... for just this patch.

Hyrum Graff5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7njxMoMA,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-04-18T00:05:55.020+0000)

And already on their 3rd version of Randuins... for just this patch.

>Implying things don't go through tons of iteration internally all the time.

Just because you're seeing more iterations publicly doesn't mean that there actually are more, total. Plus, more iterations is a good thing, not a bad one.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7njxMoMA,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-04-18T00:20:30.079+0000)

>Implying things don't go through tons of iteration internally all the time.

Just because you're seeing more iterations publicly doesn't mean that there actually are more, total. Plus, more iterations is a good thing, not a bad one.

Ryze good or bad?

While that's true, it also means they've failed twice - and more than that - they've gotten to the PBE stage twice, and failed. So either they aren't trying very hard on the PBE version of things, or they're messing up.

Lucian Waifu2 votes

Tell that to Thomas Edison who failed 1,000 times before creating a workable light bulb. Failure to make something work like you want it to isn't a bad thing.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7njxMoMA,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2017-04-18T00:22:12.968+0000)

Ryze good or bad?

Better than the previous versions, IMO.

While that's true, it also means they've failed twice - and more than that - they've gotten to the PBE stage twice, and failed. So either they aren't trying very hard on the PBE version of things, or they're messing up.

Counterexample: Malzahar

Made progress in a lot of areas; W still feels pretty bad. One more iteration and I think we'll be calling this rework a success, not a failure.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7njxMoMA,comment-id=0009000000000001,timestamp=2017-04-18T04:18:23.370+0000)

Better than the previous versions, IMO.

Not sure about that, he's at a ~32% winrate afaik...

Counterexample: Malzahar

Made progress in a lot of areas; W still feels pretty bad. One more iteration and I think we'll be calling this rework a success, not a failure.

Perhaps, but that certainly doesn't make Malz's current version any better.

It's just taking a few too many tries for Riot to get things done right, and it feels really bad playing with/against these failed/in progress things.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7njxMoMA,comment-id=00090000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-18T19:17:50.708+0000)

Not sure about that, he's at a ~32% winrate afaik...

Perhaps, but that certainly doesn't make Malz's current version any better.

It's just taking a few too many tries for Riot to get things done right, and it feels really bad playing with/against these failed/in progress things.

I've got a big long malz post that's about 3/4 written. Talks about old malz's problems, rework goals, to what degree those goals were met and (the part that's in my head but not my computer) how to fix the parts that are still broken.

Tl;dr, q, e, and r changes were great; p was good but, due to nerfs, no longer working as intended; w is real bad and has such a large role in the kit that it makes the whole thing feel bad, even though everything else was actually really successful.

Solution: fix p (longer duration, less dmg reduction), rework w (not worth trying to summarize, I just need to finish the dang post).

If you'd like, I can drop a link here when I post.

Souji2 votes

I tried him on PBE and with some AP I could take like 3 turret shots before my shield was gone. Pretty strong self shield.

EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votes

they wanted to encourage you to build as much AP as you could get away with rather than only building super tanky, so that his playstyle feels more dangerous.

chipndip11 votes

But we won't...we'll build resistances and HP...

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

can get stuff like ardent censor and spellthiefs

chipndip11 votes

Really playing into that potential on that one, man.

The JigSAW2 votes

I've played Rakan on PBE.

He deals very low damage - the cooldowns and mana cost are significant to his abilities. His Q doesn't heal immediately, and it isn't for a good amount at first. His ult damage is actually a joke considering it applies once along with the charm and is more of a distraction than any damage. His W is basically a slow Galio E mixed with Q, and frankly his passive means very little early to mid game when he's going to be taking too much damage to refresh anything. By himself he's nearly useless, he does require an ADC (Xayah or anybody else) because on his own he'd get crushed early game before he could build anything.

Xayah's not too powerful either, her movement speed is VERY low and she has no gap closing move. So while most ADC's get movement burst or a dash type effect, she has a mild movement speed bonus if she hits W on a champion but other than that, she's pretty unremarkable and easy to dodge. Think early game Kindred with Jinx's movement speed, if you can get past that you'll do well but if you can't it'll be a very difficult game just to break even.

I Might Lose2 votes

Wait I'm confused, you just answered what his AP Ratios are so why are you asking what they are?

chipndip12 votes

Translation: Why make his healing/shielding ratios so damn big when supports aren't encouraged to build any ap in this game?

WngNut1 votes

item 3504 item 3174 item 3092 item 3050 are all situational items that he could build for ap, not to mention the more off meta things he could get away with like item 3116, and I don't know about you but item 3152 is something I want to try at least once, and these items are all assuming he's supporting when he can also go mid.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

Except Redemption/Locket is so good there is basically no reason for him to abuse his ratios.

Raoul2 votes

He has pretty crappy base values to make up for it...

Honestly, his passive shield is only 33-250 and scales with Level, thats one Autoattack for anyone besides other supports, his base heal is 150 at Level 18, and his shield is a 50-190 Shield on a 12 second Cooldown...

The AP Ratios are high because his base numbers are Garbage!

Xurreal2 votes

The validity of this thread has made it worth necroposting to.

The mage item rework has finally exposed Rakan's ridiculous scaling and has brought him into mid-lane where atrocious cool-downs don't really hurt that bad. He not only is very slippery, but very difficult to escape. And his scaling outscales most mages in a combo with 1 single ability ranked up (Honestly it doesnt' matter which, they all scale from 60-90, so whatever he ranks, will do more damage than you with the same item, and he still gets to charm you for a long time.)

Rakan is shoving other midlaners out, and taking place as a solve-all end-all to safe middle-laning. It is beyond frustrating because of the nerf to mobility, once again, that affects all but certain kits indirectly, and Rakan's kit is one of them.

At least one of his abilities should be brought into line with Mage AP scaling. But I'd prefer if you brought the entire kit ap scaling into line with bursty mage scaling.

While he's not Udyr, in the sense that he has >1:1 scaling, he still has close to 1:1 scaling, enough that having support items affects his ability as if he had a blasting wand.

chipndip11 votes

You realize that all his offensive scalings are 50%, right?

Xurreal1 votes

No only his ult scales at 50%. Other damage scales at 60% and 70%, the Q has 60% ap scaling and heals for 70% ap scaling, is spamable (especially with cool down reduction), the passive gives 90% ap scaling shields, his E gives 70% ap scaling shields, his w deals 70% ap scaling with a max base damage of 250.

I get that his scaling is supposed to be good to make him a good support and everything, but this is the same problem that Galio was faced with, and its only a matter of time before the issues that surrounded him arise with Rakan.

He needs to be rebalanced after this update. He currently has no incentive as a mid-laner to engage when he can just E W Q for free damage in, and then E back out to saftey. I've seen mid lane Rakan's do just too well against any other mid laner unless he gets camped.

There are no positive interactions with him in a solo lane because his kit is too safe and is too efficient at trading with the numbers the way they are.

So ban him for now.

He's taking ban Priority over Ahri for me. He's just too slippery.

chipndip11 votes

Well, they WERE 50%. They semi-recently changed them, apparently.

WalkingInACircle1 votes

The problem I have with him in midlane is that he has the highest base ad in the game, as well as great armor and base movespeed.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

Huh. I saw a "full ap rakan" montage and as far as those usually go it didnt seem as crazy as others

Aldapsayar2 votes

More like 1,000 AP RAKAN JUNGLE!!! THE BEST CHAMPION EVER CREATED IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD

Gosh Darn1 votes

His W and ult also have low AP ratios so overall his kit is pretty balanced, lower AP ratios than Morgana who doesn't build a shit ton of AP as support. I think it's just to give him a broader selection of items. He doesn't really have enough CC to go full tank, so his build is going to be very similar to Sona or Morgana where he ends up with a low-medium amount of AP by endgame. Enough to where the ratios matter but nowhere near enough to get a deathcap.

Thilmer1 votes

Those ratios are way higher tan Sona's, and Sona has been nerfed a dozen times because "she does too much damage and heals too much".

I feel there is a double estándar here.

chipndip11 votes

He has higher cds, but his Q does scale down to being as spammable as Sona's come level 9.

1374342 votes

Sona's Q can't miss though.

chipndip11 votes

Shouldn't you say this to Thilmer rather than me?

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