Agency?

Subdue··1 votes·1,526 views

At any given time, a casual observer will find multiple threads complaining about how little impact top lane and mid lane have. Or they'll be complaining about 4 man coordinated dives at bot lane. Or they'll be complaining about junglers camping a lane, their lane if it's the opposing jungler, or not their lane, if it's their own. People don't want to rotate around the map to make plays. They don't want the jungler to move about the map making plays. Can we just be honest and say what you people are basically pussyfooting around?

You want to play 1v1 on an island for 20 minutes and still be relevant in the game. You aren't complain that you don't have ENOUGH agency; you're complaining that you have TOO MUCH agency. Your lack of involvement in teamplay across the map has rendered you insignificant, and you hate it, but not because bot lane has too much agency, or because the jungler has too much of it, but because you have too much of it, and you've squandered it.

7 Comments

redniwediS1 votes

You want to play 1v1 on an island for 20 minutes and still be relevant in the game.

There are a great many people who learned how to play this game when the above statement was a fact of the game. This happened every game, and people were used to it. This isn't a question of agency, it's a question of adapting to change, and deciding whether the change is a good thing or not.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

There are a great many people who learned how to play this game when the above statement was a fact of the game. This happened every game, and people were used to it. This isn't a question of agency, it's a question of adapting to change, and deciding whether the change is a good thing or not.

This is a valid point, but this isn't the discussion the boards are having. Every other thread is "Top lane doesn't matter," or "Jungler too strong." These are arguments of agency, not of whether a change is good or not.

Azeranth1 votes

The issue with agency is who does what, when they do it, and how. There are 5 ways to impact the game.

Do damage, set up damage, prevent damage, and absorb damage, and pressuring the map. Top Lane is usually responsible for pressuring the map, and being a sponge for jungle ganks, thus reducing the pressure on other lanes. Their job is to control the map.

What that means is sit on an island, fuck up the enemy, then when you're done fucking then up, go fuck up other people. Roaming.

However, toplaners can't do that because tanks are OP in the early game and outscales after having been op, and the ADC come online too early because they have the cheapest core items from Zeal upgrades. There is never a "when" for the toplaners to exert any pressure. It is stupid, that's what they mean by they're useless. The game provides no opportunity for the to be useful.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

The issue with agency is who does what, when they do it, and how. There are 5 ways to impact the game.

Do damage, set up damage, prevent damage, and absorb damage, and pressuring the map. Top Lane is usually responsible for pressuring the map, and being a sponge for jungle ganks, thus reducing the pressure on other lanes. Their job is to control the map.

What that means is sit on an island, fuck up the enemy, then when you're done fucking then up, go fuck up other people. Roaming.

However, toplaners can't do that because tanks are OP in the early game and outscales after having been op, and the ADC come online too early because they have the cheapest core items from Zeal upgrades. There is never a "when" for the toplaners to exert any pressure. It is stupid, that's what they mean by they're useless. The game provides no opportunity for the to be useful.

This isn't even true though. According to op.gg, of the top 10 picks for top lane, not a single one is a tank. Only 4 of the top 20 are tanks. So where is this outrage coming from?

Azeranth1 votes

{quoted}

This isn't even true though. According to op.gg, of the top 10 picks for top lane, not a single one is a tank. Only 4 of the top 20 are tanks. So where is this outrage coming from?

Look at LCS, where they're playing for wins not just fun. Maokai and Ganr are the two most contested picks, along with Sej, J4 and Zac in the jungle. All tanks, all of whom do damage

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

Look at LCS, where they're playing for wins not just fun. Maokai and Ganr are the two most contested picks, along with Sej, J4 and Zac in the jungle. All tanks, all of whom do damage

Again, that's not even true.

LCS Week 2: Yes, Gnar at top lane was a highly contested pick, but so were Gangplank and Jayce and Vlad. Even Camille, Fiora, and Illaoi made showings. And in the jungle, Zac, Sej, and Jarvan were very popular, but Rengar, Eve, Khazix, Jax, and Gragas all made showings too. Tanks may be strong, but that doesn't mean they've crowded out other archtypes.

And besides, this is LCS we're talking about. You and I don't play at the LCS level, and so you are not experiencing this in your games. You're definitely not seeing it in Bronze, and even players in Platinum + aren't see it.

Subdue1 votes

Ka pow!

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