Boards: Games are going too fast, we get turret dived so early!
*Riot implements stopwatch, which makes early dives much more dangerous and results in longer laning phase. *
Boards: Omg stopwatch makes laning phase so boring. Everyone just plays safe because they can't dive!
Also Boards: Riot never listens to us...
Tormentula60 votesTBF,
Stopwatch isn't the solution we needed, it just causes more problems.
what we want is towers to not be useless, to actually do something about those level 3-4 dives and not die after you die for the first time. Not a watch that cheeses people after 5 minutes.
Riot made watch to enable more plays like tower divers, but instead we got a gold efficient item that bandaids poor positioning/overstaying.
Z3Sleeper5 votesTo be honest i prefer towers taking considerable damage. Rewards killing you opponent with actual objective control rather than an arbitrary +half a level and 300g.
My opinion anyway. I personally like the current state of the game (besides adcs being a bit too strong atm)
Vistha D Reptile9 votesLosing an entire lane worth of towers before 15 minute mark feels like shit not an accomplishment it was a few years back.
Z3Sleeper3 votesTo each his own I’d say. Cuz i definitely feel that it adds more much needed tension to the laning phase where the victor can truly win the lane.
As a top lane main, it makes losing devastating and winning a big leap ahead. One of the few things keeping me a top player. Also makes bot lane tp’s way more impactful if you can pull a bot tower wipe out of it.
It just feels good imo. I’ve never gotten killed and lost my turret and felt like it wasn’t fair. Moreso just felt like i played badly and got reasonably punished for my misplay instead of being able to just walk back top lane like nothing happened.
Divewing5 votesThe "Victor" is whoever's team shows up to goon-squad the lane first...
The fact you haven't really encountered this is more due to being in top lane rather than anything else.
Z3Sleeper2 votesI’ve seen it enough. The main problem with it is most teams will attempt to stop them. What you’re supposed to do is just have that lane back off and rotate if possible to another lane where the rest of the team is taking their unguarded turrets.
And then you simply lane swap with top lane.
As long as mid/top/jg don’t go full derp and attempt to stop a 4 man dive in progress, your team should come out relatively even.
This is assuming your bot lane can ward/see ganks coming.
Just played a game with Hai as my ADC and this is exactly what happened. Just goes to show the skill difference between average players and pro players.
Divewing4 votesSo all I need to stay even with these games is hope that the other members of my team are LCS pros?
No worries
deadlychuck1 votesAnd that's great, but there's not really a reason that your demographic of preferences should be getting priority of the demographic of preferences which use to dominate the game.
If riot wanted to make a game which catered to your preferences, there was no reason for them to build it out of the existing game that catered to different preferences. They could've made a different game mode or a completely different game. Instead they replaced the existing game piece by piece with a bias towards your demographic which neglected subsets of the old demographic, until you now have a situation where it's so different from what older players wanted, that it's almost unrecognizable. Their solution was to add in another mechanic which moves the game further down the same path at a slightly different angle, rather than actually reversing the direction which they've been pushing the game for years.
Z3Sleeper1 votes“Old players” refers to a subset of older players that actually preferred it.
Cuz I’m an old player (started S1) and I prefer the current state of the game. And that’s why nothing’s changed yet, the majority is either impartial to or doesn’t dislike the changes.
deadlychuck1 votesYes, it's a subset of the old set of players.
However, the new players who were attracted to the game in the process of chasing off the old players are also only a subset of the the game's players.
Either way, it doesn't explain why they had to replace an existing design with a new design, which phased out a significant portion of their audience for a new audience, rather than creating a coexisting game mode. No, instead they decided to change their game piece by piece, and somehow thought that they'd be able to have their cake and eat it too.
Though looking at the current popularity of lol pro play, it seems that they really threw out something important somewhere along the way. It wasn't some single change that they made either, it was a series of changes, that they've made increasingly difficult to undo given the changes which have been made afterwards, which were built upon the existing state of the game at that time and wouldn't work if the problem changes were eventually reverted.
Z3Sleeper1 votesWell I don’t think it’s boring cuz of how fast it is. It’s moreso boring cuz of how slow it is now.
Pro players know the consequences of death in the current meta and thus play extremely safe on top of everyone having stopwatches.
Play being decelerated is the issue of pro play imo. If ADC nerfs and top lane buffs and inspiration nerfs go through, we’ll definitely see more interesting pro games.
deadlychuck1 votesProbably not.
You've got to understand their goal is specifically to reliably win. When riot keeps trying to make the game faster and faster and faster, eventually that reaches a tipping point that it's as good as a coin toss.
So the only solution to that is that no one wants to initiate that risk and chance blowing a game because every risk now is insanely high risk and a single mistake will put you out of the game.
In effect, the reason that the pro scene right now is so slow, is because the actual game itself is so incoherently fast with too much going on and too much to feasibly consider in the time you have between initiation and results. Every champion is loaded with, at this point, twice as many mechanics as there use to be in the game, most of which have some kind of significant impact which must be taken into consideration. On top of the damage trending inevitably upwards.
If they want pro play to get more aggressive, they have to start stripping aggressive kits of their impact in the game. It's not something that people want though, because riot wants to eat their cake and have it too. They want to cater to an aggressive audience, without making the game more aggressive.
Longtowel3 votesTower diving is hard. Not sure if you do towerdives yourselves very often, but at say lvl 3-4, towers do a crap ton of damage!
If you get hit by more than 3 shots you are dead. If you get CCed even for a little bit you are dead. If your team fails to cooperate for a towerdive you are dead.
I've seen more towerdives fail rather than succeed, just because the tower at early levels is an extremely powerful existence. There are many outplays that could happen under the turret.
Of course, if mid lane and jungle rotate bot to perform a towerdive with their botlane onto the enemy ADC and Support who are half health and have no summoners then these two are probably going to die. So they should!
It's a high risk and high reward activity. Currently there are no cases of someone 1v1 diving you undertower just because they are a little bit ahead (Tryndamere aside), even a 2v1 dive is very hard until say lvl 6 and you have a tanky jungle/ support with damage reduction or very high burst damage, and the target has no hard CC and summoners.
As for towers falling after dying once, there are a lot of things contributing to it. If you keep getting pushed in and the enemy lane slowly but surely whittles down your turret, then its very likely that they will call for mid and jungle to rotate, kill you, and 4 man take down bot turret easily.
If you have never been pushed under turret in lane phase, and your mid and Jungle isn't AFK farming and ignoring you completely, then there is no way for the enemy botlane to take out your tower after just one death, since your jungler could cover for you, or the death timer just isn't long enough for them to do enough damage.
Like No Other2 votesI dont think people are debating the damage of towers for the first few levels. The problem is their damage doesnt really scale with the game, and there comes a point where they are meaningless gold mines. Now, I understand that towers cant be too strong because poke comps would be stupid good against divers because they would be able to just sit under tower and turtle most of the time, but in their current state towers are way too easy to ignore.
YumaS2Astral19 votesTo add what the other user said, the lack of snowball applies mostly to pro play. SoloQ games are still very snowbally, even with Stopwatch (and many people on SoloQ don't take Stopwatch anyway).
Also, the problem aren't games being too fast. The problem is that games are decided too early (you can already tell who will win), towers die way too fast (I've had a game where by 4 minutes, my first bot lane tower was already down) and are very weak, not preventing dives early (Stopwatch mitigates this, which is why you see pro players using it on every champion), it is way too easy for a team to get an early lead and stomp the other team without even giving them a chance. Also, most champions which are supposed to be late game carries are actually spiking very early, Kog'Maw and Vayne being good examples.
People complain about short games, but short games are fine, look at other game modes like URF, ARAM, or Ascension, they are fast paced but aren't snowbally at all.
Subdue1 votesTo add what the other user said, the lack of snowball applies mostly to pro play. SoloQ games are still very snowbally, even with Stopwatch (and many people on SoloQ don't take Stopwatch anyway).
Also, the problem aren't games being too fast. The problem is that games are decided too early (you can already tell who will win), towers die way too fast (I've had a game where by 4 minutes, my first bot lane tower was already down) and are very weak, not preventing dives early (Stopwatch mitigates this, which is why you see pro players using it on every champion), it is way too easy for a team to get an early lead and stomp the other team without even giving them a chance. Also, most champions which are supposed to be late game carries are actually spiking very early, Kog'Maw and Vayne being good examples.
People complain about short games, but short games are fine, look at other game modes like URF, ARAM, or Ascension, they are fast paced but aren't snowbally at all.
Why do you suppose pros don't lose their first towers in 4 minutes?
Crystalysk14 votesBecause they farm for the first 15 minutes.
YumaS2Astral8 votesBecause they farm for the first 15 minutes.
It is not just due to that.
It is a combination of different factors. The first is their compositions. While on SoloQ snowball reliant champions are quite popular - such as assassins in geral, Yasuo, Riven, etc - in competitive, they tend to pick tanks, mages with waveclear and CC, and hypercarry ADCs (as well as Sivir which is not an hypercarry but is able to waveclear and splitpush quite well). Slayers and divers are almost non existent in competitive because they are too easily countered by tanks and enchanter supports.
Waveclear makes it so that they can stall matches because by waveclearing, you make it harder for the enemy team to push and take down towers.
Then there is Stopwatch which is a must have on competitive, whereas people in SoloQ don't pick it as much, and many of them don't even utilize it properly. With Stopwatch, they can prevent early game dives, which discourage early game aggression, which stalls games.
Their vision control is also a lot better, you see pros purchasing pink wards and constantly warding, which is yet another factor that reduces early game aggression.
Unsealed Spellbook is becoming a popular keystone on most champions in competitive, especially due to the nerfs to other keystones. The reason for that is because with the summoner spell cooldown reduction you can have Flash and other survivability spells like Heal avaliable more often, increasing your survivability significantly. They also gain the ability to switch spells, so they can, for example, switch to Teleport and quickly return to the lane, preventing enemy attempts to push.
There are ther factors but you are better off asking to someone who knows that better.
Crystalysk5 votesYou asked why, i gave you the 1st motivation.
In the current state of the game there is no interest for them to take any risk early game, they rather farm all game until they eventually all have 6 items and the play for 5v5 instead of trying to make a play and start a snowball for the enemy team.
Now, is it fun to play like that? I honestly think pros don't have fun playing like that. Is it fun to watch? Hell fucking no.
Vad Nova7 votesIt is not just due to that.
It is a combination of different factors. The first is their compositions. While on SoloQ snowball reliant champions are quite popular - such as assassins in geral, Yasuo, Riven, etc - in competitive, they tend to pick tanks, mages with waveclear and CC, and hypercarry ADCs (as well as Sivir which is not an hypercarry but is able to waveclear and splitpush quite well). Slayers and divers are almost non existent in competitive because they are too easily countered by tanks and enchanter supports.
Waveclear makes it so that they can stall matches because by waveclearing, you make it harder for the enemy team to push and take down towers.
Then there is Stopwatch which is a must have on competitive, whereas people in SoloQ don't pick it as much, and many of them don't even utilize it properly. With Stopwatch, they can prevent early game dives, which discourage early game aggression, which stalls games.
Their vision control is also a lot better, you see pros purchasing pink wards and constantly warding, which is yet another factor that reduces early game aggression.
Unsealed Spellbook is becoming a popular keystone on most champions in competitive, especially due to the nerfs to other keystones. The reason for that is because with the summoner spell cooldown reduction you can have Flash and other survivability spells like Heal avaliable more often, increasing your survivability significantly. They also gain the ability to switch spells, so they can, for example, switch to Teleport and quickly return to the lane, preventing enemy attempts to push.
There are ther factors but you are better off asking to someone who knows that better.
The main factor si its their jobs, so they are super hesitant to make any mistakes. And with the game being so damned snowbally, often the first team to mess up can use that to start the snowball. Sure there is some tiny tiny bit of those other things, but otherwise thats basically it.
YumaS2Astral4 votesThere is also that.
Snowball is actually very strong in competitive, it is just not prevalent because teams do everything possible to avoid it - and unlike in SoloQ, they actually succeed in doing that.
Subdue1 votesThere is also that.
Snowball is actually very strong in competitive, it is just not prevalent because teams do everything possible to avoid it - and unlike in SoloQ, they actually succeed in doing that.
So again I ask, if proper play results in towers surviving longer, as demonstrated by the highest levels of play, should we coddle poor players by making mistakes less punishing?
YumaS2Astral4 votesI think honestly you can't force, nor you can expect people to play at the same level as pro players just so that they can avoid snowball. The first reason, and the most obvious, is because people have different skill levels and not all people are going to be able to play at that level; either because they just don't learn, or have no interest or time to do that.
The second reason is that it is less fun this way. I am not a pro player myself, but I am pretty sure that the current state of pro games isn't boring just for who are watching. I am pretty sure that pro players also find those games to be boring (even if you play something to win, that doesn't mean you can't have fun playing). If you aren't having fun, what is the point to play? It is not fun being stomped, but it is also not fun either to be forced into long, tedious games with no action until a late game teamfight happens.
The third reason is that a big part to why pro games are not snowbally is because of items and runes, that should be properly nerfed. I think champions kit also has to do with that. For example, as long as assassins have delayed burst and shielding is omnipresent, we will never see assassins being a viable choice outside of SoloQ. And as long as pro players can just funnel gold into one or two teammates and rely on them to carry, there will be no reason to not pick a tank in the jungle and in top lane.
I think this is one of the few things that should actually be balanced around low elo, but of course, without disregarding competitive games. This is because what's the point of having a game that is fun to watch, if the meta is different in competitive, and due to that you can't have fun by playing the game itself?
Also, if towers were stronger, I don't exactly know what would happen. With "strong" do you mean towers being more durable, or dealing more damage, or both? Because the first would mean champions with strong anti-tower capabilities would become meta. I predict Ziggs becoming meta if this happened, since he is a dedicated tower buster and waveclear champion (he isn't meta right now because there is no need to have a dedicated tower burster when you can already destroy towers with other champions that have other tools or are just more versatile in general). Champions like Jinx, Yorick, Fiora, and Trundle would also be strong choices, and Tristana would be even stronger than she already is. In the second situation, I just predict the meta being the same as now; because dives are discouraged, early game aggression isn't as strong, so matches are stalled. Regardless of what would happen, I think the game could become slower paced, although if mistakes were punished less hard and scaling champions took more time to scale, we could still see early game or playmaking champions like Lee Sin being played. In the end I am not sure about what would happen.
Subdue1 votesI think honestly you can't force, nor you can expect people to play at the same level as pro players just so that they can avoid snowball. The first reason, and the most obvious, is because people have different skill levels and not all people are going to be able to play at that level; either because they just don't learn, or have no interest or time to do that.
The second reason is that it is less fun this way. I am not a pro player myself, but I am pretty sure that the current state of pro games isn't boring just for who are watching. I am pretty sure that pro players also find those games to be boring (even if you play something to win, that doesn't mean you can't have fun playing). If you aren't having fun, what is the point to play? It is not fun being stomped, but it is also not fun either to be forced into long, tedious games with no action until a late game teamfight happens.
The third reason is that a big part to why pro games are not snowbally is because of items and runes, that should be properly nerfed. I think champions kit also has to do with that. For example, as long as assassins have delayed burst and shielding is omnipresent, we will never see assassins being a viable choice outside of SoloQ. And as long as pro players can just funnel gold into one or two teammates and rely on them to carry, there will be no reason to not pick a tank in the jungle and in top lane.
I think this is one of the few things that should actually be balanced around low elo, but of course, without disregarding competitive games. This is because what's the point of having a game that is fun to watch, if the meta is different in competitive, and due to that you can't have fun by playing the game itself?
Also, if towers were stronger, I don't exactly know what would happen. With "strong" do you mean towers being more durable, or dealing more damage, or both? Because the first would mean champions with strong anti-tower capabilities would become meta. I predict Ziggs becoming meta if this happened, since he is a dedicated tower buster and waveclear champion (he isn't meta right now because there is no need to have a dedicated tower burster when you can already destroy towers with other champions that have other tools or are just more versatile in general). Champions like Jinx, Yorick, Fiora, and Trundle would also be strong choices, and Tristana would be even stronger than she already is. In the second situation, I just predict the meta being the same as now; because dives are discouraged, early game aggression isn't as strong, so matches are stalled. Regardless of what would happen, I think the game could become slower paced, although if mistakes were punished less hard and scaling champions took more time to scale, we could still see early game or playmaking champions like Lee Sin being played. In the end I am not sure about what would happen.
First off let me just say I appreciate the long thought out response. The players that you play with are at your level. You don't have to have Faker level mechanics in order to glance at the map, see where everyone is, and then make the right decisions as to whether to be aggressive in your lane or not.
Furthermore, pro players start pressuring and taking risks pretty early on. In this game at worlds, Gragas and Zac both invade deep at 3:00. Fights break out and players get low in mid and bot at 3:30. First 2v2 in mid at about 4:00... There are early plays but they're smart plays. I personally enjoyed watching it. It's more like chess than checkers.
AleksaTeemo1 votesFirst off let me just say I appreciate the long thought out response. The players that you play with are at your level. You don't have to have Faker level mechanics in order to glance at the map, see where everyone is, and then make the right decisions as to whether to be aggressive in your lane or not.
Furthermore, pro players start pressuring and taking risks pretty early on. In this game at worlds, Gragas and Zac both invade deep at 3:00. Fights break out and players get low in mid and bot at 3:30. First 2v2 in mid at about 4:00... There are early plays but they're smart plays. I personally enjoyed watching it. It's more like chess than checkers.
Yeah because your team is tottaly gonna folow up your plays /s
HaIlMonitor3 votesA lot of what you are talking about is basically why people dont like pro play that have been watching the pro games for at least 3 seasons.
What all of it comes down to is pros play safe and methodical that way they can win off of boring 5 man death balls. A lot of why people like Voyboy were "bad" as pros is because he would never win lane by farm or go even. He would win the lane by 2 or 3 kills and a bunch of farm, or be 0/3 down a bunch because he is a volatile player. Its what people watching want to see, but pros play to win. Assassins and fighters are volatile, that is why they don't pick them.
AirKingNeo11 votesHow delusional do you have to be to think the boards are hypocrites because Riot halfway solved a problem and made a bigger problem rather than listen to people for fucking once?
DuskDaUmbreon3 votesThe boards never gave a feasible solution. They just said "MAKE GAMES LONGAAH!!!!!1111!!!!1". Either that, or they wanted turrets to "DEAL LIKE A TRILLION BAJILLION TRUE PURE DAMAGE TO EVERY CHAMPION!!!1 AND BE A LAZAH!!!!!!111".
Neither of those are balance solutions. They're just the boards being...the boards.
AirKingNeo17 votesUhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
"Make turrets tankier", "remove first turret blood", "reduce damage creep"
ISOzHell8 votesThe boards never gave a feasible solution. They just said "MAKE GAMES LONGAAH!!!!!1111!!!!1". Either that, or they wanted turrets to "DEAL LIKE A TRILLION BAJILLION TRUE PURE DAMAGE TO EVERY CHAMPION!!!1 AND BE A LAZAH!!!!!!111".
Neither of those are balance solutions. They're just the boards being...the boards.
Towers are weak everyone knows that, even riot does, hence the coming buff.. Not sure what planet you live on?? Again just proving, that you want an easy win for yourself.
God forbid the towers hit a little harder and faster, now that the players do, and are more tanky. Oh no, god forbid you won't be able to tower dive a tower like it's butter.
Again you seem like "that guy", the one who needs the easy win over some effort. Now that is lazy.
YokoNomi1 votesHow delusional do you have to be to think the boards are hypocrites because Riot halfway solved a problem and made a bigger problem rather than listen to people for fucking once?
I typically like to compare these type of people to those that would rather press that pretty big red button with the label "DO NOT TOUCH", rather than leave it alone, and subvert what would ultimately become a rather bothersome issue. I feel like people would be better off formulating their opinion as an actual argument/debate, rather than just unnecessary sass with no credible basis for their reasoning. It wouldn't detoxify the forums, but it'd little less of an eyesore to deal with.
DoktorKaiser6 votesHow is stopwatch a solution to the problem when all 10 players take it no matter what they play ??? How about increasing fucking tower damage to champions by 100% so that it actually feels like getting hit by a tower. I recall in season 2 that tower diving as a non tank in general was UNIMAGINABLE DURING THE ENTIRE GAME, at early levels it would quite literally 3-4 shot you no matter what you played. That is the real reason why tower diving is a fucking joke right now...
Oxyrotten5 votesThe point is that Riot is not reverting the changes that are detrimental to the games health, instead they are trying to bandaid the situation by adding in more ridiculous mechanics to stall out the need for actual changes.
Lil Homie busta5 votesMore like:
Boards: Games are ending too fast, too much damage everywhere.
Riot implements a broken-ass rune which gives everyone accessibility to Stasis, even the goddamn support.
Riot:
FCJAAAAGOOOO5 votesWell when your team in soloQ is 3-17 15 minutes in you figure the game is over, and probably already was 5 minutes before that...
And competitive games last forever because no one fights specifically because the game will be immediately over after a single one...
I can agree with the community here.
Barkley5 votesPeople want intelligent laning phases. Not just a one-off fight bot lane that determines who goes back first, and thus who loses their tower first which snowballs into a victory.
People want to have to die more than one time to lose lane. Right now, if you die once, or if your support dies once, the lane phase is basically over. There really is no "playing from behind" right now, because if you get behind the enemy just steam rolls over you. You dont get the chance to use your brain and use strategy to keep up the lane even though you're behind. You dont get to out-think your opponent and WIN the laning phase, even though you were behind (comeback)
And lets not even talk about the fact that junglers don't even need to farm anymore. They can just camp bot all day and win the game because their ADC got stronger.
Adding another brain-dead abusable consumable item isn't the answer to that. Toning down damage numbers or tweaking income numbers is a much better answer, or buffing turrets, or many other things that have been suggested by the boards over the past few months.
Subdue1 votesPeople want intelligent laning phases. Not just a one-off fight bot lane that determines who goes back first, and thus who loses their tower first which snowballs into a victory.
People want to have to die more than one time to lose lane. Right now, if you die once, or if your support dies once, the lane phase is basically over. There really is no "playing from behind" right now, because if you get behind the enemy just steam rolls over you. You dont get the chance to use your brain and use strategy to keep up the lane even though you're behind. You dont get to out-think your opponent and WIN the laning phase, even though you were behind (comeback)
And lets not even talk about the fact that junglers don't even need to farm anymore. They can just camp bot all day and win the game because their ADC got stronger.
Adding another brain-dead abusable consumable item isn't the answer to that. Toning down damage numbers or tweaking income numbers is a much better answer, or buffing turrets, or many other things that have been suggested by the boards over the past few months.
This assessment is based on bad players playing poorly. We have already seen in pro play that teams can manage from behind. Why should the game be adjusted to cater to low elo?
And what is "intelligent" about a more forgiving laning phase? Don't the weaker turrets encourage teams to coordinate and capture turrets early?
And how easy is it to actually dive early? Do you have a replay of yourself diving successfully pre10 minute mark in your match history? Probably not.
Lauchmelder2 votesThis assessment is based on bad players playing poorly. We have already seen in pro play that teams can manage from behind. Why should the game be adjusted to cater to low elo?
Because the majority of the playerbase IS fucking low elo? Why should Riot only cater to high elo?
And what is "intelligent" about a more forgiving laning phase? Don't the weaker turrets encourage teams to coordinate and capture turrets early?
The Intelligence comes into play with Makro play, something that simply doesn't exist in a snowball meta. (No, get fed and kill everybody for towers isn't makro)
And how easy is it to actually dive early? Do you have a replay of yourself diving successfully pre10 minute mark in your match history? Probably not.
I don't, a lot of people don't. Simply because IF it somehow goes wrong you just lost that lane.
Subdue1 votes[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GxUG6piM,comment-id=001700000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T14:16:56.009+0000)
Because the majority of the playerbase IS fucking low elo? Why should Riot only cater to high elo?
The Intelligence comes into play with Makro play, something that simply doesn't exist in a snowball meta. (No, get fed and kill everybody for towers isn't makro)
I don't, a lot of people don't. Simply because IF it somehow goes wrong you just lost that lane.
You don't balance around low elo because low elo doesn't accurately portray what is possible. Would you lower the standard basketball hoop height so that high school kids could dunk more easily?
I think you need to look up what macro means. Macro play is game wide strategy and execution. If anything, encouraging coordinated early dives is more indicative of macro play than farm for 20 minutes.
So people don't do early dives because it's risky, but you propose to not reward those who attempt it anyway because... Why exactly? Shouldn't high risk maneuvers result in high rewards when performed successfully?
Lauchmelder2 votesYou don't balance around low elo because low elo doesn't accurately portray what is possible. Would you lower the standard basketball hoop height so that high school kids could dunk more easily?
You partially balance around low elo because if the majority doesn't enjoy the game they won't be spending money on the game. Riot is a company after all.
And yes, I would lower the standard height for school basketball (ages below 15 mainly). Soccer/Football does that with the size of both the goal and the field.
I think you need to look up what macro means. Macro play is game wide strategy and execution. If anything, encouraging coordinated early dives is more indicative of macro play than farm for 20 minutes.
Diving is microplay. Macroplay means playing around rotations, dragons, towers and buffs. Which brings me back to my point: Damage is too damn high, macro doesn’t mean a thing to the team with a fed enemy
So people don't do early dives because it's risky, but you propose to not reward those who attempt it anyway because... Why exactly? Shouldn't high risk maneuvers result in high rewards when performed successfully?
Early dives aren't risky. There is a very small chance you can fuck it up and thus lose the lane. It's not worth that risk for a good portion of the players simply because you can just keep forcing them out of lane instead.
We're talking about medium risk/ high reward when talking about early dives right now.
cheerfothebeer4 votesBoards: Games are going too fast, we get turret dived so early!
*Riot implements stopwatch, which makes early dives much more dangerous and results in longer laning phase. *
Boards: Omg stopwatch makes laning phase so boring. Everyone just plays safe because they can't dive!
Also Boards: Riot never listens to us...
Riot response: This is a hyperbole statement. Just because the boards says it is broken and just because LCS is boring as fuck to watch because of it, doesnt mean that it is the problem. You see we provide surveys to the larger player base to get their opinion on these types of things, we don't provide any transparency on the survey results, but just trust us that the larger, more casual, player base likes stopwatch.
General Esdeath 4 votesIt's almost like people said stopwatch was going to be problematic just like people said dynamic queue would be problematic....if only riot actually listened to us and the thousands of demands to just LOWER THE DAMAGE in game.
OniZetsu6663 votesI have said this since a few days I came into the game (this is like 2 months ago) "these towers are really weak, why aren't they more powerful?" I was new and wondered why the hell they were so weak. No one should be able to tower dive in at 5 minutes.
Śhunpo3 votesGames are still won by 7 minutes or before the game even starts because bot lane is already feeding/thinking about feeding OMEGALUL
Starcraft243ver3 votesActually dives are easiers with stopwatch as well, since it's a free "switching target" when you tower dive.
Karfuss2 votesBoards: Games are going too fast, we get turret dived so early!
*Riot implements stopwatch, which makes early dives much more dangerous and results in longer laning phase. *
Boards: Omg stopwatch makes laning phase so boring. Everyone just plays safe because they can't dive!
Also Boards: Riot never listens to us...
Riot didn't listen. Players wanted towers to be, all around, better to prevent whichever team ganged up bot lane first from winning.
Stopwatch didn't do anything to towers. It's a cheese item at 5 minutes that provides a one time protection from poor positioning, misplays or overstaying. What is even worse is that it accomplishes nothing, because everyone can grab it, only exacerbating tower dives.
Red Wreckage2 votesSo stopwatch is the only solution to lower game pacing???
what kind of #$%! moron...
How about lowering the damage/nerfing electrocute?
right now, stopwatch is a must, FOR EVERYONE, cause if your opponent has it and you don't, well you're fked cause they can play all aggro they want, they can dive u even earlier if their jungler is with stopwatch too, it is also free gold for a later zhonya/GA.
It is locking you with 1 secondary tree if you want a safer early game....so much freedom of choice. :)
Kavren20552 votesRiot didn't listen.
We asked for lower damage and higher health towers.
We got stopwatch for everyone at 6 minutes.
Håppy2 votesYeah, we want longer games. We don't want everybody to have a free stopwatch. Zhonyas is already obnoxious on its own
