Is my turret out of order? It's shooting pebbles

xJLx MCHammer·Aug 8, 2017·57 votes·1,938 views

Where are the days where I can stay under a turret knowing that pre-level 10, my opponent is aware that the tower will hurt ? Why does it feel that past 5 minutes, turrets become a joke? I don't mind seeing a tank take huge amount of shots, but I don't understand how it's healthy that I get bullied in lane by players who actively take 1-2 turret shots and barely get hurt. What is going on ?

We have passed the point where we consider being attacked under your turret as "tower dived". We need a new term for this. Why is an ADC who normally does not build any HP able to take 2+ turret shots while harassing me?

BUFF the damage. I don't need the first turret shout doing a huge amount of damage, but it really needs to punish players who actively standing under a turret with no HP item and still soak them. I want a tower that doesn't shoot pebbles at my opponents.

62 Comments

Mighty MorteinAug 8, 20178 votes

I've noticed that tier 1 ARAM turrets hit like a truck. You accidentally step under that early and you've lost 200HP.

PePsiLemoNNAug 8, 20173 votes

You accidentally step under that early and you've lost 200HP.

That's like ... exactly like sr

KyunseiAug 8, 20176 votes

{quoted}

That's like ... exactly like sr

Just tested it out, Summoner rift turret do less damage than Howling abyss turret, they have like 40 less AD

General Esdeath Aug 8, 20174 votes

The solution is simple, increase their attack speed. Riot is concerned we can't farm under tower if they do more damage (it's a nice pattern that 2 turret shots for melee and 1 turret shot for ranged minions puts them at enough HP to die from one auto) but this will still let people farm just fine while increasing overall damage and shortening dives. We don't need turrets to shred armor and make tanks useless at dives (their literal job is to take hits) and we don't need more damage (I'd be fine with it but Riot clearly isn't so I'll settle for something else). We need them to do their job, which is harder with almost every champ now having some kind of ranged harass, especially in top lane.

PrinceOfStormsAug 8, 201718 votes

Then just give them a passive that triples their damage against champions or something.

General Esdeath Aug 9, 20172 votes

The champs aren't the only problem, the turrets seem to have weaker defenses themselves.

PrinceOfStormsAug 9, 20171 votes

Okay, then give them 1000 base armor and immunity to critical strikes.

General Esdeath Aug 10, 20171 votes

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Spacesuit SpiffAug 8, 20173 votes

Give them %hp true damage vs minions. Do whatever vs champs. Then balance changes wont chase farming patterns

This Is Your DadAug 8, 20173 votes

Turrets should ignore armor.

Ben SharpioAug 8, 20179 votes

are you insane?

This Is Your DadAug 8, 20178 votes

Yes, yes I am. How about turrets shred armor per shot like a black cleaver then? Yea?

Ben SharpioAug 8, 20171 votes

sure

OyddAWqJ5rAug 8, 201713 votes

Or just increase the ramp up damage? I don't see why tanks should have their defensive stats that alot of them scale on reduced just for doing their job.

AimléssAug 8, 20171 votes

Well squishies tanking towers isn't the problem. It's the tanks, so yes armor shred is not a bad idea. And it'll still effects squishies as well.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 8, 20173 votes

Er no, squishies tanking towers is exactly the problem. There is no reason a level 4 squishy can tank like 4 towershots because he has a cloth armor.

AimléssAug 9, 20171 votes

Wah WHAT???? Please find this hacker! And what squishy has cloth armor at level 4? Only people that would build that that early is a tank.

Wait, why am I even responding to the tank mains that dominate these boards anyway?

LordGeovanniAug 9, 20171 votes

i believe riot should rework armor so that you reach 25% defense at 100armor compared to the 50% they are at now and fill up the reach the same 75% at 200 armor shifting the power of defense stacking. though if what i think they are doing next with runes is that they are removing current runes and replacing them with buffed masteries if im not wrong could be an okay answer then we only use base armor out of the in game items

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 8, 20173 votes

Am I the only one sitting here thinking that my turret needs an armor/mr buff instead?

SqueyAug 8, 20173 votes

See the problem is turrets are either very effective or not at all. We have all died because we accidentally took 1 turret shot when engaging. Yet we have all been dove by someone squishy like yi or jayce who takes 8 turret shots and gets out alive. And a few days ago i was playing a mage mid and we dove the enemy. I had 350 hp, the jungler ran out of turret range, and i took 1 shot from the turret on my way out and that 1 shot did over 350 damage. Considering at the time i had maybe 1200 hp, that felt absurd.

I would love it if they buffed tower damage alittle bit in some way. But i ALSO want tower range indicators because sometimes turret range feels completely bs

xJLx MCHammerAug 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

See the problem is turrets are either very effective or not at all. We have all died because we accidentally took 1 turret shot when engaging. Yet we have all been dove by someone squishy like yi or jayce who takes 8 turret shots and gets out alive. And a few days ago i was playing a mage mid and we dove the enemy. I had 350 hp, the jungler ran out of turret range, and i took 1 shot from the turret on my way out and that 1 shot did over 350 damage. Considering at the time i had maybe 1200 hp, that felt absurd.

I would love it if they buffed tower damage alittle bit in some way. But i ALSO want tower range indicators because sometimes turret range feels completely bs

I actually wouldn't mind them just fixing some of the crap the turret tends to make an error with

X hits me, walks out of range, turret shot some how disappears. This most notable happens with champions like Zed, Yas..etc. It get's annoying because clearly the turret should have hit them but they escape from being hit 2 x times despite being in range of tower.

Attack On AsunaAug 11, 20173 votes

Turrets are so usless. they need some kind of damage/ armor buff. people shouldnt be taking the turret just because there is no one there for 5 seconds.

Pippen The ShortAug 8, 20172 votes

Totes agree, turrets are more of a formality than a threat right now.

SpoofghoulAug 8, 20172 votes

what if turrets did bonus damage on their first attack vs champions like + 90 -180 depending on level

no issues with farming to be seen here

also buff their armor and mr by 100 points

it's getting tiresome to see the thing fall to a maokai with 1 minion wave

JesuszillaAug 8, 20171 votes

Turrets have an increasing attack over time aspect, people who are getting dove are usually being killed by players either trading off turret aggro or that built armor. And to that I say, outplayed.

SpoofghoulAug 8, 20172 votes

but that is just the thing i hardly see people juggle turret aggro anymore they just straight up ignore the thing like it's not even there and even the slowest of turret killers take 75% of their health in 1 wave

something ought to be done about it

JesuszillaAug 8, 20172 votes

Well I call complete bull on that. For one thing the 75% health in one wave is a lie, just flat out a lie. Turrets have a built in damage reduction effect and there are other mechanics in place on top of that.

Secondly I see people flashing from turrets all the time, bouncing aggro, especially at higher tiers of play. It's generally something that people require skill and coordination to do, so it might make more sense that you don't see it.

xJLx MCHammerAug 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Turrets have an increasing attack over time aspect, people who are getting dove are usually being killed by players either trading off turret aggro or that built armor. And to that I say, outplayed.

Also because everyone does more damage now.

Some ADC's are even being described as "sustain burst damage" by casters because mid game 2x crit in a row to your face will hurt A LOT more than 2 x turret shots.

JesuszillaAug 9, 20172 votes

If adc's are "sustain burst casters" then what are assassin's? This logic doesn't make any sense, and currently ADC's are one of the weakest of the roles. People have been complaining about that for a while now.

Everyone does not "deal more damage" now, the items and masteries have not significantly changed for a long time and the gold efficiency and values out there remain too. So if runes, masteries, and items haven't had significant changes to increase the power level of their stats, then no one is really dealing much more damage unless they had reworks, which we did see on some assassins, and it did buff some of their damage. But to be honest they were already dealing close to that too. Some even got damage nerfs.

It's really hard to take you seriously when you don't quantify anything and make broad sweeping statements that are highly inaccurate.

Critmaster GarenAug 8, 20172 votes

its the entire ramp up mechanic that made turrets weaksauce.

allows ranegd champs to trade single turret shots for poke on their enemy under their turret and come out ahead, or bursty and mobile assassins who dive very early on take little damage since theyre only eating 1 or 2 shots anyways.

and then there are these fucks who can just reset turret aggro at will and reset the ramp up. Elise Kled

PaffWasTakenAug 8, 20172 votes

I remember how I laughed so bad when Riot announced that they'll remove the laser from the inhibitor turrets. That thing was a change just to camouflage that they were too lazy to fix the bugs related to them. But hey, Rito amirit?

ZT XperimentorAug 10, 20172 votes

"Why does it feel that past 5 minutes, turrets become a joke?" That's been a problem for years, one riot willfully ignores.

Asayake 5150glowAug 8, 20171 votes

1-2 hits is not a lot. It shouldn't be a lot, either, so no damage buffs there.

3-4 hits signifies they've either actually committed to the dive, or they got minion blocked when trying to retreat. That does need buffs, however.

JesuszillaAug 8, 20171 votes

There's an increased ramp up in damage the more consecutive shots the turret fires on champions. Turrets don't need buffs and the OP is just salty that he got dove.

Asayake 5150glowAug 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

There's an increased ramp up in damage the more consecutive shots the turret fires on champions. Turrets don't need buffs and the OP is just salty that he got dove.

Yeah except they're still pretty weak once you start eating 3-4 shots once you reach mid game...

JesuszillaAug 8, 20171 votes

I know that's YOUR opinion, but that's not fact.

Outer turrets have 152 AD and gain 4 AD per minute up to 180 AD. Now, mid game means that outer turrets are supposed to be down, so let's instead look at inner turrets.

Those have 170 AD and gain 4 AD at 8:00 and every minute after that for 250 AD max. Let's assume your mid game is happening around 12 minutes, which is usually what I would call a mid game starting point.

The turret has 190 AD and a 0.83 attack speed as well as 30% armor penetration and 40% increased damage each time they strike a champion, up to 120% after three hits.

So the first attack does 190, second is 266, third is 342, and finally the fourth and every following hit does 418.

Is 418 damage per hit with 30% armor pen low for 12 minutes?

As an example, a champion with 120 armor would take 654 total damage from 4 turret shots. That's a significant amount of damage for someone building high armor. And that's being lenient, the actual damage is a bit higher.

King of TroIIsAug 8, 20171 votes

How fast can you stack Manamune? That's mid game.

JesuszillaAug 8, 20171 votes

That doesn't have anything to do with "mid game."

Mid game is a point in time where players are at a specific level, turrets are down, and the transition of power is shifting around the map to different objectives.

The stacks on an item that no one buys and that varies from champion to champion has nothing to do with mid game...

PePsiLemoNNAug 8, 20171 votes

Inb4 Riot buffs turrets : ''rito I killed this dude 3 times but now he camps under turret I can't dive him do smth''

71060670DEL1Aug 8, 20171 votes

That's just poor wave management

xJLx MCHammerAug 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's just poor wave management

What the hell are you talking about? Wave management?

Are we still in season 3? Every class has a way to effectively wave clear without any sort of punishment outside of ganks. ADC have Hurricane and Static Shiv. AP mages have more mana regen, most tend to built morello's which grants huge amount of mana regen or refund. Bruisers and melee ADC champions have Tiamut or from their kit

So no, all its takes to get dove is something being coordinated.

71060670DEL1Aug 9, 20171 votes

I was responding to what happens if turrets are buffed and you can no longer dive. If you kill them 3 times and they're under their turret, you damned well better be starving them from cs and xp, and if you aren't you're managing the wave properly.

xJLx MCHammerAug 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I was responding to what happens if turrets are buffed and you can no longer dive. If you kill them 3 times and they're under their turret, you damned well better be starving them from cs and xp, and if you aren't you're managing the wave properly.

That's true

If I can kill my opponent three times, the gold i get should be enough to force an objection or even the tower. You should be able to bully people who are farming in lane

What i dislike is seeing a Yasuo who is constantly pushing my tower, who gets hit by a turret shot or two, and walks out with 80% of his HP. Where is the fear of the tower anymore?

Tower diving should not be so brain dead, especially how squishy towers are. At this point, tanks do not even have to be the ones tanking turret shots when tower diving. You can have a squishy do it for 3+ shots before it because dangerous.

Turret diving should be slightly more strategic. At this point it's "CC enemy champion under his turret and burst him while your or your ally tank 3 turret shots"

JesuszillaAug 9, 20171 votes

Well the tower dealt 20% of his health, that's pretty significant. The bigger question is why aren't you punishing them for taking those shots and getting that close?

Tower diving isn't braindead, you are just getting outplayed. Recently you have been playing a lot of champions that are very strong at punishing power dives like Anivia and Annie, so I wonder what you are doing.

As for your example, that's what turret diving ALWAYS has been and that IS the strategy... You literally just named the strategic aspect of turret diving...

What do you want, the turret to two shot champions? That's an absurd expectation. I think you're just salty over a recent game.

King of TroIIsAug 8, 20171 votes

What about making the first turret shot apply red buff (slow and some DoT)?

Final Spark LuxAug 8, 20171 votes

Welcome to Dota 2

RainXBladeAug 9, 20171 votes

Why not let turrets deal true damage and inflict GW so that drain tanks (like Mundo) can't dive us mindlessly? Let's also increase their attack speed for good measure.

DisulfiramAug 11, 20172 votes

It is ok for tanks to be able to to tank the turret, that's their job after all; what is not ok is that a squishie can dive, eat 4 shots, kill you, and then get away with it...

RainXBladeAug 12, 20171 votes

That's what the true damage and bonus attack speed are for: it's to hurt anyone who would dare try to dive you.