Should jungle be clearable without smite

Knight SoIaire ·Aug 21, 2015·1 votes·669 views

i understand that smite has many benefits and downsides but that how it should be ... you get something for something

meanwhile in current game ... smite is the only way of jungling ... the fact that it allows you to secure objectives or even help you in a fight with the new items ... it feels just like added benefit on a summoner spell that makes you actualy capable of doing your first clear

im not sure if sustain monsters like ww or aatrox would have a chance to pull a smiteless first clear off

8 Comments

ErockandrollAug 21, 20151 votes

I think having that Objective securing power just makes it mandatory. And yet, having those objectives to begin with are also necessary are also needed to make the game more interesting and encourage teamwork.

If the enemy has it, then your required to have it. Smiteless Jungleing wouldn't be viable unless smite was removed.

Knight SoIaire Aug 21, 20151 votes

well i understand your point

but even if you try to not take smite ... you wont go past the first camp ... the jungle will just kill you outright

the trade off is that you sacrifice objective securing for something else like exshaust ignite heal or a barrier

its just that ... you cant clear without smite

TitanseekerAug 21, 20151 votes

But... with smite you can give it the cool upgrades that make it kind of like having something similar to exhaust/ignite/barrier >_> (freezing smite and challenging smite respectively)

ErockandrollAug 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7guW6bdi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-21T16:35:05.000+0000)

well i understand your point

but even if you try to not take smite ... you wont go past the first camp ... the jungle will just kill you outright

the trade off is that you sacrifice objective securing for something else like exshaust ignite heal or a barrier

its just that ... you cant clear without smite

Remember back when they did a bunch of these changes. They increased the XP gain of the smaller camps to try and give the Jungler more options for where to start. But that lead to a lot of people poaching camps just to get to level 2. (I still do this with Sion.) So they had to buff the camp damage along with buffing the Jungle items to make it so that Junglers would benefit more from Jungle camps.

And that might be the real problem you having. Not so much that Smite is required to clear camp. But that Smite is required for the Jungle item.

StealthWardenAug 21, 20151 votes

I agree with the last statement. There is no purpose for smite unless it is necessary to clear the jungle becuase without the items, it doesnt do anything outside of jungle monsters, and those items are geared toward what junglers need.

The only reasonable changes here, i think, are remove smite and make the jungle easy, or to make things more fair and be the same across the board, make other role specific items attached to crucial summoner spells, and make them stronger and more specialized.

for example, beef up the support items and link them with a support spell like exhaust. I know people are already not liking this, but smite is the only item specific summoner spell and its actually not fair for junglers to be forced to take smite and only have 1 flexible summoner spell, which is pretty much just flash if were being honest 90%+ of the time its flash and something else so junglers really dont get a flex summoner they are pretty much locked in to smite / flash.

to be clear im ok with the way things are and im not complaining about anything. All im saying is that if there is going to be a change in the flavor of smiteless junglers it needs to be an "All-In" approach one way or the other.

Yosuke ApperuAug 21, 20151 votes

I remember back with the spirit stone items. That was imo when jungle was at it's finest.

xBushxAug 21, 20151 votes

The power doesn't really come from smite.

It comes from the Jungle Item. Which is really required to get the Gold from the jungle to even come close to a solo laner and the gold they receive.

Knight SoIaire Aug 21, 20151 votes

well i think that machete is close to being equal to dorans blade in terms of the first clear ... you know the important one

that first clear is also when you smite twice for more than 800 true damage total and various buffs ... imo this is what makes a diference beetwen dying and actualy killing the monsters ... especialy with the hp and the stunns you can get of red and krugs

if i would take ignite as a jungler it could be fine ... i could adapt to that ... i would gank more and play more agressively to push my advantages ... if i would like to secure my buffs i would try to gain that safety by utilizing my advantage in offense its a good strategical gameplay

but the insane stat deficite that is due to me lacking smite and all of its early benefits would mean that i would probably fail my entire game on my first clear

the jungle items lose their power fast ... since champions start operating at numbers which make that jungling passive obsolete past couple first clears the jungle items provide simple stats and passives that allow you to transition into late game better

what i mean is that not taking smite into jungle could work if smite wouldnt be so important during the first clear

since smite is a well designed spell ... its a clear strategic choice that but with the jungle changes smite became more of a "must pick or ill die to monsters"