Not bashing, but...

l Main Renekton··131 votes·5,009 views

Is there anyone else who really doesn't enjoy all of these changes?

110 Comments

Krigjer28 votes

I'm upset with the removal of stealth wards. I'm still adjusting, but I'm never going to be happy with this.

SrirachaLimes5 votes

Why? Honestly, I think the ward changes were good. The fact that they automatically upgrade your wards for you instead of you spending 250 gold on it is much better now.

I've never bought any stealth wards in my games and I always have the 2nd most number of wards placed, because the support always beats me with sight stone. And I place all those wards because of the ward upgrade. I felt like stealth wards weren't really impactful compared to the trinket upgrade, and it was kind of a money sink if you kept on buying stealth wards instead of just upgrading your trinket and never having to buy wards again. Now the system is much more efficient. It basically forces the player to be efficient.

Cipse4 votes

I don't like these changes because buying the trinket upgrade didn't mean that I wouldn't buy any green wards afterwards. The three main scenarios where I would buy green wards after upgrading my trinket was if; I had only just upgraded and there wasn't any charges in the trinket An important objective needs warding I am going to split push

The new trinket solves the first problem but it also means that you need to save charges if you want to ward and objective or if you want to split push, because both the lifespan of the wards and the cooldown for each charge got nerfed. The lifespan got nerfed from 3 minutes to 2 minutes (at max rank) and the cooldown per charge got nerfed from 1 minute to 2 minutes (at max rank). Because of this, there will, overall, be less vision from new warding totem and more from sightstones.

Also, recently as an experiment, I've been taking the farsight alteration for my split pushers, because wards last infinitely, don't have a cap and it recharges at a similar rate to the previous upgraded trinket.

Westonbirt8 votes

The new trinket is pretty garbage. It never actually gets as good as the old upgraded trinket.

I'm seriously angry at this.

xV2x1 votes

I personally find the vision changes just fine. It does mean less wards on the map but it does make it a team effort. Not only do the supports ward. But the jungler can go a warding jg item if u really hav a problem with no vision as well as the jungler can go blue trinket for roaming vision all over the map covering camps and roaming hotspots. Then support goes sweeping lens taking out the enemies. along with the 1 ward everyone else has, That's pretty good for wards on average I feel.

Jacknife1 votes

You're not wrong, but that puts a lot of reliance on your teammates. Higher elo will probably adapt to what you proposed, or some variation, but lower elo... they might as well play horror games, since they like walking around in the dark so much. It pretty much takes away the ability to cover a weakness in the team. Maybe when the new champ select and matchmaking come live it might change, but for now...

xV2x1 votes

yep yep. i agree entirely lol

Westonbirt9 votes

My problem is that with a 120s ward on a 120s cooldown, nobody can put down 3 wards at a time except the support. It was actually very different when we were dropping real wards on a 60s cooldown.

We plain have, mathematically, less wards.

Maybe if I keep spamming this the item will come back.

item 3361 item 3361 item 3361 item 3361 item 3361 item 3361 item 3361 item 3361 item 3361

Krigjer2 votes

I purchased stealth wards when I was top/mid/jung occasionally (mostly pre-level 9) because it was a three minute ward instead of 60 seconds. I still bought them into lategame if I felt I needed them. I liked having the option of buying stealth wards, and not relying on my trinket.

Which reminds me; is the ability to upgrade ward trinkets gone? Because even at level 18 I'm still having to wait a minute and a half to place some wards sometimes. I don't like that.

The 'forces the player to be efficient' part bothers me. I don't like being told how to play. Everyone that likes these changes have basically been telling me 'You SHOULD have been playing this way, and if you weren't, you were stupid'.

Westonbirt3 votes

Yes, they made the upgraded trinket objectively worse than before, because fuck people who try to ward. If you want to ward, why don't you play support, kappa.

Narsicus4 votes

Hate to say it, but if you weren't buying stealth wards you were doing it wrong and if you really were second highest on warding that just shows a bigger issue of no one helping out with vision in the early game.

With the old trinket once it auto upgraded the first time you could have 1.5 wards out at a time, with a low low investment of 250g that increased to a 3 ward uptime. With the current warding totem it starts at 60 second lifespan 180 recharge and goes up to 120 lifespan 120 second recharge. AKA worse at every stage in the game.

Combined with the fact that you can no longer purchase sight wards people simply lost access to vision in season 6 unless you are buying a sight stone item variant. Once again warding is put mostly on the supports and now they can't even place more than 3.

The only real reason this could be happening is that Riot is making a conscious decision that there was to much vision control in League and are actively attempting to bring it down, this is alright and a choice about game health and all. But don't pretend that this is somehow an improvement to vision because people don't have to pay money for it anymore. As you say it 'forces the player to be efficient' but the new maximum efficiency is weaker than the previous MINIMUM efficiency at all stages in the game until you reach level 18 where it finally becomes equal to the previous minimum efficiency. Not what I would consider a buff.

Reconnected1 votes

Everyone getting free trinket upgrades is just dumbing down the game and catering to bad players. Also the red trinket upgrade is not as good as it was in S5 because you could sweep an area for a teammate to kill the ward then go off and find more, now you have to stand next to it or kill it yourself since the sweeper is stuck to your character now.

Krigjer1 votes

And making it more difficult for players that liked to ward pre-level 9. Now you have to ration your ward trinket out.

Xela Syab21 votes

game kinda feels outright broken right now for ad/crit champs.

Mahou Lulu20 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xela Syab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7gIfhw4v,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-11-11T19:38:54.772+0000)

game kinda feels outright broken right now for ad/crit champs.

Expect brokenness for a few patches. Preseason generally has issues. I'm just hoping things like the new minion buffs get tweaked or removed quickly.

MarhsallLee6711 votes

From what I remember, past preseasons didn't literally turn everything in the game upside down. This preseason feels like a giant middle finger to everybody who isn't playing a champion who utilizes ad and/or crit to some significant degree.

BetaDude407 votes

Preseason 5 was quite a nightmare...

The time of extremely difficult jungle clearing, 420 Weedwick, and when only 3 junglers were ever used at a given time.

Abyssphere3 votes

{quoted}

Preseason 5 was quite a nightmare...

The time of extremely difficult jungle clearing, 420 Weedwick, and when only 3 junglers were ever used at a given time.

That was just the jungle though. This is kind of every lane. You have Trynd/Riven getting to your inhib tower before 15 minutes top, insert random ADC 1v5ing come 25 minutes and somehow, Soraka support bursting people before they know she's even there. I don't know what's going on but everything is upside down.

I've even played Soraka today to abuse the freelo and I did ridiculous amounts of damage for a support build, you can check my match history. Their Azir couldn't look at me without exploding.

Zenthon Prime7 votes

Your Soraka support had the lowest damage of anyone in the game and had zero kills. What are you talking about?

MarhsallLee671 votes

I remember Warwick being a big problem, as well as the jungle being more difficult to clear, but I had pretty much only jungled up to that point and had enough experience that the changes, though certainly a rough patch, didn't have too big of a negative effect on me. I asked for advice and adapted relatively quickly.

What's happening now (the way I see it) is the majority of the champions in one class getting injected with super-steroids to the point of ridiculousness. Compared to Preseason 5, where within a class, this happened with only a few champions, I'd say the current preseason is worse. But that's just me.

I will admit that I did play Vi during Preseason 5, so that may have been a part of why I don't remember having a rough time. >.>

(Also my memory is bad and I enjoy playing as or against very few marksmen (or AD champs in general), so my opinions about this preseason could just be the result of an overdose of salt.)

Squarefighter1 votes

Were you around during preseason 5? The jungle murdered everyone who dared touch it, Weedwick reigned supreme, and morellos costed around 450 less gold than it does now, making it so cost efficient people would often just build two at the start of the game. Preseason is a place to test wacky ideas so that the rest of the season doesnt become a happy little accident

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

Were you around during preseason 5? The jungle murdered everyone who dared touch it, Weedwick reigned supreme, and morellos costed around 450 less gold than it does now, making it so cost efficient people would often just build two at the start of the game. Preseason is a place to test wacky ideas so that the rest of the season doesnt become a happy little accident

Except you clearly haven't been around long, because most of the fuck ups stay for the beginning of the season, as well.

Squarefighter1 votes

I was only here for preseason 4 and 5, what are the fuckups that stayed for the season?

Whiteeye Avelyn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xela Syab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7gIfhw4v,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-11-11T19:38:54.772+0000)

game kinda feels outright broken right now for ad/crit champs.

The preseasons are always like this give them a month it will start be me pushed back it lane you should have seen season 4 tho

Xela Syab10 votes

Been playing since season 2, back when garen got nerfed for being a amazing duelist and wukong was a new champ, yeah those were the good old days where I didn't have to cringe every time a new overloaded heavy mechanic champ got made, and where the whole jungle itemization was redone, hell starting jungle item was cloth armor and 5 pots. Been playing this game so long I got married and had 2 kids.

Back when everyone had a heart of gold.

Whiteeye Avelyn3 votes

The Good ole' Daysitem 3070

g00gle it3 votes

those where days . me 2 .

Sgathach12 votes

The support changes and changes to vision are terrible. Being a support just became loads harder than it was before.

Thats a Bingo8 votes

[{quoted}](name=NaCl Goddess,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7gIfhw4v,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-11-11T20:00:04.463+0000)

The support changes and changes to vision are terrible. Being a support just became loads harder than it was before.

"Hey, let's try to get players to start warding more by taking away wards." Yeah, that's not counter-intuitive at all.

Sgathach6 votes

That's what I said! Though in reality it was probably a passive-aggressive move on their part.

Maybe they figured people would appreciate wards more if they took them away?

In reality this is putting supports in a tough spot prone to receiving toxicity again.

Sightstone wards start off with 150 seconds (as opposed to the original 180. Again, why change this AND nerf the charges on sightstone?) which means a support rushing sightstone has much better wards than a bot lane that relies on their trinkets. Sightstone charges were changed from 4 to 3, meaning once you put out three wards you need to go back to recharge them otherwise you can't put out anymore.

So what does this mean for the support? Riot wants to think positively and say that it encourages other players to ward more. If you're with friends that care then that's certainly true, but for most solo queue players at average to lower levels (Bronze/Silver and probably Gold too)?? It means the support is still the only one warding AND their wards were nerfed AND the charges were nerfed AND they'll still be blamed for the lack of vision because--and I know this is hard for Riot to understand--people still won't ward.

It's nice that they did that big article about how people don't buy wards. The 60% of people who don't buy wards also don't put down wards in general. Did they wonder why? Let's go over the reasons.

  1. "I don't have the gold!" Well Riot tried to fix THAT for us.
  2. "I forgot to upgrade my trinket!" Okay Riot fixed that for us too, that's good.
  3. "I don't care." Well that's...um...

The problem is that the majority of players who don't ward also don't care enough to ward in the first place. They don't notice it, don't care, don't want to and just simply WON'T DO IT. This is something that RIOT CANNOT CHANGE.

So taking away wards from the few people who ACTUALLY DO CARE and ACTUALLY TRY TO WARD does not change the fact that a lot of people DON'T CARE. And those that don't are idiots, don't get me wrong. But we can't do ANYTHING about them. Trying to rewrite how the game works to force those people into doing something only hurts the players who actually know what they're doing.

Phew okay I ranted sorry I'm done.

Fatalitý12 votes

Don't enjoy them is a little bit of sugar coating. How about I hate them?

Limitanei9 votes

You're not the only one.

I'm still bitter about the removal of stealth wards, the butt-fucking of AP midlaners, and most of all...

REMOVAL OF MANA POTIONS.

Tbh, I have no idea if Riot is deciding to just outright kill the AP mid champs, or if they're forcibly trying to make mid AD only.

MrWasjig3 votes

Seems like both really. AP nerfs across the board. Keystones are horrible for AP Champs. Buffs to MR. Buffs to AD.

"Yep, fuck AP" -Rito on Season 6

Keevalroy8 votes

I hate pretty much everything that came with this patch.

Talkrr5 votes

Im enjoying it, it makes my role as a Jungler harder but I need to get better at clearing and this should help me.

ComannderShepard1 votes

{quoted}

Im enjoying it, it makes my role as a Jungler harder but I need to get better at clearing and this should help me.

^This. It's preseason, things are going to get tweaked around before S6 officially starts.

Keyoshi5 votes

I absolutely hate everything about this preseason, i hate the masteries, i feel as if they dont work on any champions that i play. It doesn't actually feel like (unless i play a hard ad champion) that im actually doing any damage or soaking it or whatever. I hate the masteries more than anything this game has ever had.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

I absolutely hate everything about this preseason, i hate the masteries, i feel as if they dont work on any champions that i play. It doesn't actually feel like (unless i play a hard ad champion) that im actually doing any damage or soaking it or whatever. I hate the masteries more than anything this game has ever had.

{{summoner:17}} {{summoner:2}} item 1027 Skarner

Dylaugus5 votes

i still HATE how snowbally the games are now ._. i mean all day its been dominate or be dominated if you give up an early lead you pretty much have no chance to come back unless you are so much better then them you can make up for the lack of stats but that wont happen if your playing with people at your skill lvl.

Habitz4 votes

There are big changes at the beginning of every season in league. Yes, this means there is a bit of relearning needed but the basics are still there.

Skott6 votes

Yes, I have now learned to always ban yasuo

Shac Norris4 votes

Cait's rework is toxic, she gets mini crits like 3 attacks in a row in a safe distance while still dishing out cc....

Daedalus8714 votes

Not a fan of the Quinn rework or masteries getting dumb downed.

A Miss Fortune4 votes

No mana potions and Yasuo being more cancerous than he already is are my main issues so far. Don't say that no mana potions didn't effect roles like ADC because I personally loved getting mana potions. I thought maybe I didn't need them that much but I still got them anyways, I know now that I actually really was helped out by having mana potions.

Universal Boop4 votes

i'm quite furious about not having mana potions, what brings them to the idea that removing fucking mana potions was a good idea?

lxlLilybellelxl4 votes

Mana pots.... y? just y? WHY DO YOU HATE MAGES SO HARD? Why can only manaless harass bs champs have infinite sustain now with healing crits while mages can barely scrape together a combo? It's like Mages are stuck with the dollar menu while everyone else gets the damn combo meal. I don't even want to get into how badly the lack of sustain is hurting supports with beefed up adcs. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

on the other hand my favourite item has returned item 3123 with a fancy new upgrade item 3033 I missed this item so bad. It really leveled the playing field against retarded sustained assassins.

TurquoiseYoshi3 votes

I honestly love most of the changes (after additional balancing), but the winion changes are pretty crap.

kaellidor3 votes

I like the champ changes, but I am really hating literally everything else. nothing good is coming. not the snowballing not the early lead pushing not the 20 min games that you cant even surrender.

cmillion2 votes

I just all around hate this patch. Please revert until the brokenness of it all is fixed.....

Wimbledofy2 votes

So are you saying you enjoy the changes or not? The post sounds like you are saying you enjoy the changes but you said "not bashing" which would imply someone might think you are bashing on riot.

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